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Archiver > GENIRE > 2002-05 > 1021227351


From: "NO SPAMMING" <>
Subject: Re: Local knowledge, generalities, etc (was Re: Marriage recognition)
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 14:15:51 -0400
References: <6WSC8.12910$e5.88346@news.indigo.ie>, <24389-3CDBFEE4-7@storefull-2158.public.lawson.webtv.net>, <3b6d4e11.0205120716.7c7a2fab@posting.google.com>


I just have to say that you have plenty of 'b..ls', Hugh, by
taking on one of the acknowledged finest scholars dealing
with Irish literature and manuscripts.

Check http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/G100001/
where in the preamble notes to the Annals one can read:

"The Corpus of Electronic Texts Edition: G100001
The Annals of Ulster
Author: [unknown]
Background details and bibliographic information
File Description compiled by Donnchadh Corrin and Mavis
Cournane

Funded by University College, Cork and
Professor Marianne McDonald via the CURIA Project.

1. Third draft, revised and corrected.

Proof corrections by Donnchadh Corrin, Mavis Cournane

Extent of text: 70 810 words; 2 volumes

Publication:
CELT: Corpus of Electronic Texts: a project of University
College Cork
College Road, Cork, Ireland

(1997)
Distributed by CELT online at University College, Cork,
Ireland. Text ID Number: G100001"

Details of the Annals of Ulster state:

"In this digital edition we have used Mac Airt & Mac
Niocaill's edition (1983) of the annals. We have omitted
their edition (pp 2--36) of the Pre-Patrician or Irish
World-Chronicle which is best treated as a separate text.
Their edition extends from AD 431 to AD 1131.2 when both
manuscripts become lacunose. For the remainder of the text
(AD 1155 to the end) we have had to use Mac Carthy's very
unsatisfactory edition. His codicological information is
obscure, his citation of variants is patchy, and he makes
many unnecessary or wrong-headed attempts at emendation.
These latter are simply ignored, but emendations and
corrections by Whitley Stokes (1896, 1897) are integrated
into the text. It is not, however, possible to produce a
satisfactory digital edition from Mac Carthy's ragged
apparatus. The current edition contains only the text from
AD 431 to AD 1201. The remainder of volumes 2 and 3 is in
preparation."

The manuscript sources are too numerous to mention here, but
it seems like a major work authorised by University College
Cork. What comparable works, Hugh, have you written than
give you the right to 'nit' pick with a learned professor on
a translation?

Would you kindly give us the source year for the 'Lochlandi'
excerpt, so than we can have a reference point for your
argument. Also the URL for Donnchadh Corrin's Webpage
would be helpful.

Thanks
=================================
("Hugh McKiernan" <> wrote in
message
news:...
> (Carolanne) wrote in message
news:<
t>...
> > Wow this is history in the best of teachings for
me.....a simple irish
> > lass ...but a McLaughlin
> > and I must now side with Sean, ah..since he is a cuz
> > .. have at it kids.....I am leaning much of my heritage
the easy way!
> >
> >
> >
> > Carolanne~
>
>
> Using Donnchadh Corrin's webpage to support the notion
that
> Loaclainn denoted a territory is always going to be weak.
Principally
> because Donnchad's arguement is flawed. It relies too
heavily on the
> English translation of the Annals of Ulster. This English
translation
> was not made from the original. The work was transcribed
and
> translated a number of times before it was translated into
English.
> Just to take one example from what Donnchad offers in his
arguement; I
> cannot agree that "fir o Sgiathia Lochlaindi .." means
"The man from
> Skye of Lochlainn ..", as he contends, since it can be
more easily
> translated as 'the Lochlain man from Skye ..'
> There are other similar examples. Perhaps it would have
been better to
> seek the opinion of a professor of Irish.
> Or even a professor in the Irish speaking University!!
>
> H.
>
> P.S. Pender edited O'Donovan's translation of O'Clery's
book of
> genealogies in Analecta Hibernica #18. Payton later, in
1979,
> published an index. John D. McLaughlin, on his
aforementioned website
> has made "corrections and additions" according to himself,
although he
> admits "I can translate some of these pedigrees (mainly
just the
> names, though)."
>
> Ah yes, the hazards of data mining on the
internet.........


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