GENMTD-L Archives

Archiver > GENMTD > 1997-08 > 0870634177


From: "L-Soft list server at Apple (1.8c)" <>
Subject: File: "GENMTD-L LOG9603D"
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 14:49:37 -0400


X-Message:
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 22:48:14 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From:
Subject: The First Post From RootsWeb ...

This is a first test post from RootsWeb.

My apologies in advance ... -B

--
Dr. Brian Leverich
Co-moderator, soc.genealogy.methods/GENMTD-L
RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative

X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 08:00:05 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Don Davis <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: County Hist/Genealogy Society listing

I am working with the Custer County, Nebraska Historical Society.

We have tons of local info in our historical and genealogical library,
and are anxious for interested people elsewhere to know of our
existance. And we're amassing data on computer now--a big obituary
index, homesteading records, etc.

We're not ready for a web home page yet, but is there some internet site
where we can add our name and address to an existing list of information
sources?

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Davis, Secretary, Custer County Historical Society
Box 334, Broken Bow, NE 68822
-------------------------------------------------------------------
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 08:13:16 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Mike Long <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: SavvySearch Catches MINUGHs (Minnows?) on the NET

Malcolm Goddard () wrote:

: You should try AltaVista seacrh facility, it is generally faster
: and much more powerful than Savvy Search

That is assuming that AltaVista and Savvy Search are both searching
the same database. Then you must define what you mean by "more
powerful." In general, genealogists are looking for 100% recall in
their online searches. This means that all of the relevant
documents in the system being searched are found. This is rarely
achievable in any system I am aware of.

recall = number of relevant documents retrieved
--------------------------------------
total relevant documents in system

The other commonly used measure of information retrieval system
performance is precision.

precision = number of relevant documents retrieved
---------------------------------------
total documents retrieved

Of course only the searcher can determine if a document is relevant
and one never knows how many relevant documents are in the
particular database being searched.

In general, one gets better performance by carefully formulating
the search strategy and familiarity with the particular search
engine being used. My favorite non-commercial WWW search engine is
InfoSeek but since I never know what any particular site has in its
database, I use them all. My all time favorite for genealgical
searching has to be Melvyl - hands down!

One question one should always ask before searching for anything
is "Who would most likely have this type of information?" The
most "powerful" search engine is of no use if the information isn't
in the database in the first place.

Mike

--
Mike Long, 4310 Albany Drive, K210, San Jose, CA 95129, USA
"think of the Leech-gatherer on the lonely moor" Wordsworth

(Mike Long)
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 08:56:31 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Gene <>
Organization: accessU.S.
Subject: WW II Searches - MIA/POW

I was wondering if there are any web-sites or other internet
resources that keep records on WWII POWs or MIAs. I did find
one for the Vietnam war, but not WWII. If anyone could help
it would be appreciated.

(Gene)
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 08:57:39 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Mark Faucette <>
Organization: Atlanta Macintosh Users Group
Subject: Re: Meaning of Signs?

On 3/16/96 at 1:33 PM, Methods and resources for wrote:

Marf> I am looking for any kind of clue or source of information that may
Marf> help me determine the meaning of the "signs" in the following list of
Marf> children.

It looks to me like they're signs of the zodiac.

- via BulkRate 2.0


X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 09:21:05 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: GREEN MARY <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: 1850s Black Genealogy Methods?

I have traced my g-g-grandfather back to Mississippi by using the
1880 census report. On that report it lists his age as 26 and his
place of birth as Mississippi. However, I have no idea what county
in Missippi he was born in. His name is Hugh Lewis, and he would
have been born in about 1854. He was a Black man so it is quite
probable that he was born a slave. I have no other info except
that his mother's first name was Hanna. Can anyone help?

GREEN MARY <>
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 09:22:45 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Karen Isaacson <>
Organization: RAND, Santa Monica, CA
Subject: Records Management

One of the things I do in my spare time is manage the Roots Surname
List, a database of nearly 90,000 surnames submitted by around 6,000
submitters from all seven (yes, all seven) continents. (Send any
message to for more information, or visit the
Web Page at http://www.rand.org/personal/Genea/rslsearch.html) One
of the participants, Dayna McMullen, recently asked me the following.
I didn't have a good answer, but thought the good people here on
soc.genealogy.methods might have some good ideas.

I have Dayna's permission to quote from her e-mail. She wrote:

I read your FAQ info this morning and my question was not
addressed there so here goes.... How do I keep my family
information so it's ready to send out when someone sees it
on your list and requests that I send it to them? I typed
my descendant charts for my different surnames into WP6.1 for
Windows and attached it to an e-mail message and then I got
messages back that they were unable to read it (I told them
beforehand that it was WP6.1 for Windows). My FTM program
has too many other surnames and info to send that to them.

I have over 10 surnames I'd like to submit to your list but
I don't have time to sit and type these charts up in different
formats for inquiries. What is the BEST way to do this????
To help you answer my question, I have Windows 95, WP6.1, FTM
and Eudora programs on my computer.

I'm obviously new at this. I requested info from someone on
your list in November and they evidently had the same problem.
She sent me 25 pages of stuff I couldn't use. She ended up
typing new stuff into her mail program and sending it in a
message.

This problem must come up in other contexts, such as for GENSERV
participants, WFT participants, people who post lots of queries
to soc.genealogy.surnames, etc. How =does= one cope? Me, I
retype a lot of stuff, but that's partly because I haven't read
it for so long that I enjoy doing so. That and I may be a glutton
for punishment ;-) That, and I sometimes take months to answer
queries. (Oops.)

Karen

X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 09:27:04 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: John Wheat <>
Organization: CCnet Communications (510-988-7140 guest)
Subject: Indian Territory (Oklahoma)

Does anyone know how to get genealogical records for people who
lived in the Indian Territory (Oklahoma)? Any suggestions would
be extremely helpful. Please EMail me at:

[ As always, for replies of general interest please send a CC to:

or

Either works, RootsWeb saves a little time. Thanks, Mod ]
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 09:34:27 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Jeff Thompson <>
Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc.
Subject: Re: LDS Baptism and sealing of records - ADDENDUM

C.R. Schmink wrote:
>
> Just a comment: Isn't it nice that the Church of Jesus Christ of
> Latter-day Saints DOES make all this info available, without charge,
> to anyone who wants to use it? If an individual doesn't happen to
> believe in the religious practices of the Latter-day Saints, it would
> seem that ignoring them doesn't hurt a bit. That leaves a huge amount
> of freely provided information available to all of us still - whether
> "sealing" and "baptizing" are of any interest to us or not. Just MHO.
>
>

Interesting, but they do happen to benefit from our work in the long
term. So there is a little self interest there.

--
Jeff's Pacific Cruising Notes =
http://home.earthlink.net/~jkthompson/cruise/mainpage.html
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 09:39:16 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Rod McLean Barken <>
Organization: PSS InterNet Services, Interneting Florida and beyond 904 253 7100
Subject: Re: Broderbund Announces--World Family Tree Submitter Information
Service

Barbara Peale wrote:
>
> >Re: Broderbund Announces--World Family Tree Submitter Information Service

Like a dummy, I bought the "upgraded" version of Family Treemaker
because it contained helpful research tools (as advertised),
because it offered an internet connection to what appeared to be
genealogical information, and because it was loaded with disks that
contained what I thought were ancestral files. Ha!

What the disks contained were either: 1.) Social security records
re: death (no help); 2.) Resumes of ancestral information, most of
which was marked "Private" and therefore of no use whatsoever;
3.) Lists of family names that, when accessed, contained nothing
more than blatant advertising for the purchase of further disks
from Broderbund.

While the program (Family Tree Maker) is well-organized for the
coallating of family information in an easy-to-understand database,
it and the accompanying information is of little real use in the
gathering of needed genealogical information.

My advice: Buy the "stripped" version of the program, save yourself
$30, and ignore the hype.

Rod McLean Barken <>
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 09:40:36 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Richard Pence <>
Organization: Net 109 Fidonet <-> Internet Gateway
Subject: Re: Name the relationship

p> From: (Philip Harbour)

p> As I see it, David Jr. and James are simply 2nd cousins and nothing
p> more. However, Dorothy is both mother and 1st cousin once removed to
p> James. Likewise Elizabeth is both mother and 1st cousin once removed
p> to David.

My e-mail to Phil said: "Second cousins."

However, I added that since the same relationship exists through
both parents, some would call them "double second cousins."

(Richard Pence)
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 10:19:52 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Rich Lowe <>
Organization: INS
Subject: Fireproof Microfilm Storage Source?

Our local Genealogical group has an opportunity to get a significant
number of rolls of duplicate microfilm involving our county records.
This, however, is on the condition that we purchase a fire-proof
microfilm storage file cabinet.

Our current cabinet is 9 drawer but not fireproof. Does anyone have
an idea what such a cabinet would run costwise and could you point
us to a source (reasonable one of course)? We may have to pass if
the cost is prohibitive.

Rich Lowe

._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
Rich Lowe

http://www.netins.net/showcase/vbciowa
._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 10:28:44 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From:
Organization: Dave and Cathy BERNHARDT, Hudson MA U.S.A.
Subject: Re: PA Birth Records-1900-Tioga&Warren Counties

In <4i4a5v$>, writes:
>
>Need help in locating 1900 birth records in Tioga and Warren
>Counties,PA. (snip) How
>would I approach finding birth records in these two counties
>from the period of April through June of 1900?

from "Ancestry's Redbook...":
"Statewide registration of births and deaths has occurred since
1906...", and "...Births and deaths in Pennsylvania were also
recorded in the county orphan's courts for the period 1893
through 1895, as were delayed birth records for events occurring
as far back as the 1860s. The state archives has films of some
of these records...".

/dave

==============================================================
* Dave (David) and Cathy (Mary Catherine CAMPBELL) BERNHARDT *
* Hudson, MA U.S.A. *
* members, New England Historic Genealogical Society, Boston *
* email to: *
==============================================================
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 10:30:36 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: John Obrien <>
Organization: Sound Advice Limited's Internet Access for KC
Subject: Re: Easter, date of????

Tom Lincoln () wrote:
: >>jon ackroyd wrote:
: >>> Could somebody please explain how the sliding date of Easter is
: >>> determined? What date ranges could this encompass?
: >
: >I had been told that Easter Sunday MUST fall on the first Sunday after the
: >first full moon past March 19. I have yet to be wrong using this rule.
: >

I've always been of the understanding that Easter is (formula
follows) The first Sunday After the first full moon after the
Vernal equinox. So the above formula is close, but the vernal
equinox usually occurs on March 20th. The big variable is when
the full moon happens. BTW, the formula, except for the Sunday
part, is based on the Wiccan feast of (I think the name is)
Samhain.

--
,o888b,`?~~~~~ ~~~~~P',d888o,
,8888 888 ?~~~ John D. O'Brien ~~~P 888 8888,
8888888P' ~~~ ~~~ ?8888888
888P' ~~~ "When all the World recognizes ~~~ `?888
`88 O d~~~ good as good, This in itself ~~~b O 88'
`?._ _.o~~~~~ is Evil." Lao Tsu ~~~~~o._ _.P'
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 10:41:17 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: MacDonald Andera <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Ukraine Research

I have been approached by a new member of my genealogical society
in the hopes that I can help him locate people involved in Ukraine
Research. If anyone out there has knowledge of any society, club,
group or person(s) having specific knowledge in this area, please
send me their e-mail or Postal address so that I can put this young
man in touch with them. Research in the area he is from is very
difficult at this time as the border between Poland and Ukraine
keeps shifting. Records could be in many places. This young
gentleman is just beginning his quest and it would be wonderful if
we couldprovide him with some basic information to whet his
appetite. Thank you.

Reply to
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 10:43:18 -0800
Reply-To: L Moon <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: L Moon <>
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Subject: Re: Easter, date of????

Tom Lincoln () writes:
> In article <>,
> Kevin Ettery <> wrote:
>>In article <> Fred Clay <> writes:
>>>From: Fred Clay <>
>>>Subject: Re: Easter, date of????
>>>Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 09:29:12 -0800
>>
>>>jon ackroyd wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Could somebody please explain how the sliding date of Easter is
>>>> determined? What date ranges could this encompass?
>>>
>>>The date of Easter is dependant on the date of the Jewish Passover.
>>>Passover is always the first full moon after the spring equinox.
>>>Easter is the first Sunday that follows this full moon.
>
>
> I developed this Easter Algorithm some years ago as part of a larger
> package of date routines...

Passover! Algorithm!

You can make it as complicated as you like, but "the first
Sunday after the first full moon, after the spring equinox" works.

--
L Moon __
\/

(L Moon)
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 10:46:01 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "Jerauld A. Erickson" <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Chicago Help

-------------------------------------------------
FORWARDED MESSAGE - Orig: 17-Mar-96 15:16:22
Subject: Chicago Help
From: Jerauld A. Erickson 74733.137
To: INTERNET:
-------------------------------------------------

Looking for some help from you Chicago genealogists!

Researching Hachmeister family emigrated approximately 1840's from Germany to
Chicago area.

Problem: Census records show at least 2 families with similiar names in about
the same area. Here are the family names

Henry Hachmeister (many variations-Hockmaster, Hackmester, etc noted)
b.. Germany emigrated? married ? to
Sophia? Maria? b.. Germany

Children: Maria-1845 Ger, Louisa-1850 Chi, Henry-1851 Chi,
Sophia-1853 Chi(my grgrandmother), Emma-1854 Chi, Fritz-1857 Chi,
& Carl-1859 Chi.

1850 & 1860 census records show this and another family with
similiar names. One family is in DuPage Co, Addison Tsp, the other
in Cook Co, Leyden Tsp, Jefferson-post office. My grgrandmother
was married inCook Co., 1876, listed her residence as Oak Park, the
Cert listed her as married in the Ev Ger Luth Church-St Johns in
Harlem.

Which archive, library or local historical soc would help me with
the family in Leyden Tsp-I can't find that on a modern map, and
which archives, etc might help with the family in DuPage Co?

Who might have records of the St Johns Ev Luthern church in Harlem?

Were there local newspapers during the 1870's or just a major
Chicago one?

Are there any indexes for the Chicago area to check for this
surname??

Thanks for any info you can provide-Becky in Virginia

E-mail from: Jerauld A. Erickson, 17-Mar-1996

"Jerauld A. Erickson" <>
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 10:48:08 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From:
Organization: CU-Online "Your one stop Internet Provider!"
Subject: old photographs

I collect old photographs and have several old photo postcards.
Many of these have names and relationships from all across the
country. I try to document the names, the name of the photographer
and the city and state. If anyone is interested in learning if I
have any photo's of their relatives I will give the information
free of charge. So many photo's do not have names and it is so
sad to see them discarded by family members. Please remember to
check the back of your photographs for family information and mark
names on the backs or attach a postit or something so someone will
have a record of who these people are or were.


X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 10:51:21 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Kevin Dye <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Name the relationship

Wed 13 Mar 1996, Hank Matty <>:

"Mary, Hannah, and Deborah, were sisters. Elizabeth and Joseph
were Mary's children; David was Hannah's son; and Dorothy was
Deborah's daughter. David m. Elizabeth and Joseph m. Dorothy.
Thus, siblings each m. first cousins, and their two spouses
otherwise also were first cousins to each other. David Jr. was
born of one marriage, and James was born of the other. What name
is to be given to the relationship between David Jr. and James?"

Thu 14 Mar 1996, J John Jones <>:

"I would guess that David Jr. and James have two relationships.
They are 1st cousins through siblings Joseph and Elizabeth.
They are also 2nd cousins through 1st cousins David and Dorothy.
In this case, I guess closest relationship wins, so call them 1st
cousins."

Thu 14 Mar 1996, Philip Harbour <>:

"As I see it, David Jr. and James are simply 2nd cousins and
nothing more. However, Dorothy is both mother and 1st cousin
once removed to James. Likewise Elizabeth is both mother and 1st
cousin once removed to David."

Thu 14 Mar 1996, Lunetta595 <>:

"When I ran this family through a program that identifies
relationships, David, Jr. and James are listed as First Cousins.
Of course, they could be called "double first cousins", if
preferred, I suppose."

Sat 16 Mar 1996, Hank Matty <>:

"Sorry I must disagree. David Jr. and James were double second
cousins. Not to quibble, but one might say there were two
aspects to that relationship instead of "two relationships". To
be double second cousins includes the first cousin relationship
as a non-separable part."

Both Phil and Hank's analysis above are confused. John is right:
James and David Jr. -are- first cousins. Lunetta's software agrees,
but it's important to understand the principles involved, so that we
need not rely on an unknown programmer to be infallible. John
identified the crux of the issue in pointing out that "closest
relationship wins". I'm only sorry that he went on to qualify that
important principle with the needless weasel words "In this case, I
guess".

Consider the basis of these relationships: full siblings share two
common parents; full first cousins share (at least) two common
grandparents; full second cousins share (at least) two common
greatgrandparents. Note that by these definitions, every sibling is
also a first cousin. Likewise, every first cousin is also a second
cousin and a third cousin, ad infinitum.

To avoid such confusion, we follow the simple principle John
mentioned: "closest relationship wins". To determine the
relationship between two persons, we trace their ancestry backwards.
When we find a common ancestor we stop and name the relationship
according to the number of generations traversed.

In the case at issue, James and David Jr. have Mary as a common
grandmother, so we stop there and call them first cousins. There's
no need to trace back yet a third generation and mention the
(unnamed) common parents of Mary, Hannah and Deborah.

The statement "To be double second cousins includes the first cousin
relationship as a non-separable part" is absolutely false. To see a
case where double second cousins are not first cousins, let's just
modify the example slightly. Imagine that Elizabeth and Joseph were
not siblings. If Joseph were the son of yet a fourth sister of Mary,
Hannah and Deborah, then James and David Jr. would be double second
cousins, but not first cousins.

The only case in which there would be ambiguity about the
relationship between James and David Jr. would be if Mary bore
Elizabeth and Joseph by different husbands. In that case, James and
David Jr. would be half first cousins. It might then be reasonable
to ask "Which is the closer relationship, half first cousin or double
second cousin?"

-- Kevin
<>
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 10:58:49 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Cheryl Singhal <>
Organization: Net 109 Fidonet <-> Internet Gateway
Subject: Newspapers in Microform

It seems I forgot to mention something important about this book.

It contains citations for ALL US newspapers on microform, prior to
the date of the publication of the book.

This means the Maryland and Virginia GAZETTES published in the 1700s
are listed.

This is why the dates in the book's title are unimportant, except as
ID for the book itself.

Sorry.

Cheryl

* OLX 2.1 TD *
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 11:00:56 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Cheryl Singhal <>
Organization: Net 109 Fidonet <-> Internet Gateway
Subject: Newspapers - how far bac

CT>From: Carole Tutic <>

CT>Can anyone tell me when newspapers started to be printed and

Shortly after Gutenburg invented movable type. Some sources cite
Luther's Theses as the earliest newspaper.

The Court Tattler in London is quite old; and the London TIMES has
been continuously published since before the American Revolution.

If you're talking about *in the US*, then Peter Zenger (1697-1746)
was certainly among the earlier ones with his _Weekly_Journal_.

CT>are they archived anywhere? I'm especially interested in

Yes. Usually (A) at the newspaper office itself; (B) the state
Archives; (C) the Library of Congress; (D) the State University;
(E) the main Mormon library in Salt Lake City; and (D) by University
Microfilms Inc, who microfilmed some of them for retail.

CT>french newspapers from Quebec and France.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the specifics for either of those
places.

CT>Is there a list that would give dates as to when they started
CT>publishing and what areas are available?

Yes. Ask your librarian. Or, visit your local Mormon Family History
Center and check their FHLC.

* OLX 2.1 TD *
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 11:02:33 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: LeAnne <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Deceased Social Security #

In article, Christian Tice says...

>What do I do once I HAVE the deceased person's social security number?
>I think I found my maternal grandfather's who died in New Orleans in
>1966.

write to the SSA (social security admin) in Baltimore, Maryland,
21235-0001 requesting a copy of her application (form SS-5) for SS#
- include a check for US$7 & wait - I ordered one for my
mother-in-law back in Sept 95 & just received it last weekend.

>gisela () wrote:

>: Where do I begin search for a deceased person's Social Security
>: Number?

I found some at FHC & others on a CDROM for persons from Texas who
applied for a card & are now deceased & were paid benefits. I'm sure
there are also other sources.

LeAnne
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
LeAnne Davis e-mail:
Configuration Management
Texas Instruments
214-952-5386
Disclaimer: My opinions are TI's only by EXTREME coincidence!
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 11:49:55 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Michael Burnett <>
Organization: Cornell University Medical College
Subject: Is it worth sending a letter to an Irish or Scotish Newspaper

In Baxter's "How to find your British and Irish roots"
he suggests sending a letter to the local daily or weekly
newspaper in Ireland with information that you know about
your ancestor and where he was from.

I am wondering if anyone else has done this. I am very willing
to try this approach especially sinnce I have my great great
grandfathers exact birth date 5/17/1827 in Millstreet, County Cork
Ireland and even a photography of him with his wife, Catherine
Hourty. I know the names of two of his brothers Joseph and Patrick,
who also came to Geneva, NY. He had a cousin John Neary who was
involved in commercial shipping in NYC and a William Neary
who became a priest in Geneva, NY. I know his parents
names, William Murphy and Johanna Harding.

I don't have the mailing address for Millstreet. I also have
ancestors from Galway and Kilkenny. But I don't have as much vital
information on them only the birth dates.

Do you suppose it's worth bothering the newspaper people?
What has been your experience with doing this? What will help
me and what information should I give?

--
Michael Burnett
Cornell University Medical College

(Michael Burnett)
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 11:54:50 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Richard Pence <>
Organization: Net 109 Fidonet <-> Internet Gateway
Subject: Re: Masonic records and genealogy

t> From: (Todd K. Legg)

t> In article <4i491p$>,
t> says...
>
>"P.C. of Harmony Lodge #6 (100F) Age 24"
>
>"Was sent from Baltimore" "(Member of Masonic Lodge)"

t> I believe the above ioof reference is for a group called the
t> International Order of Foresters. They are not Masons.
t> Hope this helps.

Todd:

You may be confusing the International Order of Odd Fellows (IOOF)
with the Woodmen of the World (or some such similar name). (Neither
are Masonic-related.)

A general question to ALL:

The question of finding recores of and/or information about various
fraternal organizations comes up every few weeks. Is there not a
FAQ on this _somewhere_?

[ You may have just identified a good idea for an article. -Mod ]

(Richard Pence)
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 11:56:41 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Richard Pence <>
Organization: Net 109 Fidonet <-> Internet Gateway
Subject: Re: Deceased Social Security #

c> From: (Christian Tice)

c> What do I do once I HAVE the deceased person's social security number?
c> I think I found my maternal grandfather's who died in New Orleans in
c> 1966.

What better way to respond to this than by reposting the fine
response our moderator made to this same question a year or so ago.
To wit:

=======================================================================
From:

RU>From: (ruffel)

RU>If you have a SS# and you want to find out about his person.
RU>Who happens to be dead. How would one go about this?

One writes a letter to the Freedom of Information Officer, SSA,
Baltimore MD 21235, encloses a printout of the SSDI entry and a check
for $7, and asks for a copy of the SSA-5. Write to:

Freedom of Information Officer
Social Security Administration
4-H-8 Annex Building
6401 Security Blvd.
Baltimore, MD 21235

The SSA-5 is the form the deceased filled out to obtain his Social
Security card and contains (or should!) his name, the names of his
parents, his mailing address when he filled it out, and his signature.

If you are searching for *more* information than that (such as
employers, dates of employment, etc), it is more expensive ... it
starts at $15/ one year, and goes up, roughly by $2.50 a year
searched to 52 years for $92. You need to prove death and your
(eligible) relationship. (Eligible relationships seem to be
limited to spouse, parent, child, divorced spouse or divorced
parent, an heir at law, next of kin, beneficiary of the will or
donee of property of the deceased.) You need form SSA-7050-F3
for this.
=======================================================================

(Richard Pence)
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 11:59:53 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: John Andrew Prime <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Masonic records and genealogy

In article <4iess1$>, says...
>
>
>In article <4i491p$>,
> says...
>>
>>"P.C. of Harmony Lodge #6 (100F) Age 24"
>>
>>"Was sent from Baltimore" "(Member of Masonic Lodge)"
>
>I believe the above ioof reference is for a group called the
>International Order of Foresters. They are not Masons.

Folks:

IOOF does NOT stand for Internation Order of Foresters. It stands
for the International Order of Odd Fellows, a fraternal organization. I'm sending
this post from home, and don't have mor einfo at my fingertips. I'm
not a member of the order, though I have been called odd :-) but
there is a very active chapter of this organization here. I'll check
with them about records and such. Since they had/have a burial
society, they may have quite good records.

John Andrew Prime

X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 12:01:27 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Crawford - Judith <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Leap year

All genealogist are concerned with the calender. When is Leap year
leaped over? I heard from several sources (I do not know how valid
they were) that leap year only happens when the last two digits of
the year are devisible by 4 which means that the year 2,000 will not
be a Leap Year. Is this correct? If so, does this mean that the
year 1,900 was not a Leap Year? Would this make a difference in
figuring the day of the week before 1900? Please reply. This has
never occured in my life time so I don't have a clue.

Judith Crawford

Crawford - Judith <>
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 12:03:58 -0800
Reply-To: Dave McKissock <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Dave McKissock <>
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Subject: Re: old newspaper research

In <4i6tck$>, "John S. Meyer"
<> writes:

>Erik Bittner <> wrote:
>
>>Can someone give me some tips about how to conduct research through
>>old newspapers of the time and place various relatives lived? I have
>>done the census thing, but knowing that your GGGP's came from a state
>>isn't detailed enough; I was hoping to find more info through
>>obituaries, etc.
>
>If you have a date and the area where the person died then you have to
>find the local paper for that area, usually microfilmed in that areas
>library. To find out what papers where around at the time my
>suggestion would be an local historical society for this info.
>
>John

What about the "etc." part of Erik's question (Erik asked "I was
hoping to find more info through obituaries, etc.")?

For example, maybe you know
the birth/death/marriage places and dates of an ancestor,
but you want to know something about
the ancestor's life. In the ideal world, I'd be able to go to an
index that lists all articles in the Rochester NY newspapers that
mention my great grandfather Robert Adams Gowans McKissock, hopefully
to find articles about how Robert won an award at the county fair in
18xx for the juciest tomato in Monroe county (or whatever).

Can I only dream about such indexes, and the only real world solution
is to sit down and read all of the daily newspapers from my great
grandfather's birth to death in Rochester, looking for interesting
articles?

<<<<<<<<<<<<<< NASA Lewis Research Center >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Dave McKissock
Aerospace Engineer

X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 12:06:10 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: A Brignall <>
Organization: The University of Edinburgh
Subject: Re: Meaning of Signs?

In article <4if1hv$>, (Richard Pence) writes:
|>
|> I am looking for any kind of clue or source of information that may
|> help me determine the meaning of the "signs" in the following list of
|> children.
|>

My guess is that the signs given may be the Rising Sign or Ascendant
for each person, which is, I think, the sign on the horizon at the
moment of birth. You can check this in any good astrology book.
Some astrologers believe that the Ascendant is more important than
the Sun Sign, which is the sign that the sun is in at the time of
the birth, and is what newspaper horoscopes refer to. So if you
knew how to do the calculations (try some astrology software?) you
should be able to work out what time of day (within a couple of
hours) the people were born, assuming that the signs you have were
accurately calculated.

Hope this helps,

Ann

(A Brignall)
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 20:49:49 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Michael Burnett <>
Organization: Cornell University Medical College
Subject: Information on My Canadian Ancestor

I am seeking information on my great great grandmother, Clarissa
Larue Ely. She was from Ontario Canada. I do not know the name of
her town yet, I am planning a trip to Ontario County, NY archives
and I will try to look at her Death Certificate. I assume that will
have her parents' names.

I do know that she married Josiah Burnett, my great great
grandfather, in Canada. There is a photo copy of an old document
from my Josiah's civil war record that lists the place of marriage.
It is difficult to make out the place but something like Chamlileer
conessby by Chamderien and the record is said to be in Brockville
in Canada. I would guess that their marriage date must have been
in 1850 or 1849,. The first child, Rosalia was born June 10, 1850.

Would Clarissa Larue Ely have had to apply for citizenship in the
U.S. at some time. Or, having married a U.S. citizen would she
automatically have citizenship? Any information you could give me
would be greatly appreciated. Perhaps even recommendations for
other sources of information.

Also on-line at

--
Michael Burnett
Cornell University Medical College
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 20:51:35 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: chas7 <>
Organization: Gateway to Internet Services
Subject: Need first contact, cold call letter samples for surname list

Would any of you kind folks who have had some success in getting
replies to first time contact letters, be willing to share the
wording of the letters with us?

I have a couple of small lists of surnames and would like to get a
good response buy my attempts sound too stiff or formal...dont't
want to scare anyone off.

I have searched some leading texts and found lists of "do's and
dont's" but no actual wording of letters that work.

I would think that sensitive first contacts are a vital part of
family history research and hope that there are some good letters
out there. Will you share yours???

Thanks in advance and Best regards

Charles Gersna

X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 21:01:42 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From:
Organization: West Coast Online's News Server - Not responsible for content
Subject: Re: Numbering descendants

In Article<4if69d$>, <> writes:
>
> (Richard Pence) wrote:
> in response to
>
> > t> From: (Hank Matty)
>
> > t> Yes. Ellen Keyne Seebacher was kind enough to forward copies of all
> > t> four parts of your most excellent NUMBERING SYSTEMS IN GENEALOGY, as
> > t> it appeared 6 Jun 1995 in soc.genealogy.methods.
>
> Richard,
>
> Is there anyway you (or anyone) can repost this system, as I'm
> sure there are always beginners trying to figure out how this is done!
>
> In the alternative, Ellen, could I impose upon you to forward me a
> copy also?
> Barbara Vellturo

This information would be extremely helpful for newbies like myself.
I would be very interested in seeing this information reposted; or,
if anyone can point to the home of an FTP or WEB site where I can
grab it, I'd be very appreciative.

Mike


X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 21:18:13 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: John Wm Sloniker <>
Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever
Subject: Re: Circus museums

On 16 Mar 1996, Lloyd Mac Donald wrote:

> Ringling Brothers Circus Museum Sarasota Florida
>
> Lloyd Mac Donald <>

The Ringling Brothers came from Baraboo, Sauk Co, Wisconsin. Their
tomb is there, where a few of my cuz are also buried.

And, for the circus buffs, the circus train still makes an opening
season run to Milwaukee each year. The tracks are lined with cameras
and camcorders, along with all the BIG kids and a few little kids,
too.

*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*
# I have Ancestors, Aunts, Cousins, Uncles, Brothers, Sisters. #
# Some are very good, some are very bad, but they're all mine. #
# =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- #
# John Wm Sloniker <> (206) 789-6663 #
# 7323 - 19th Ave. NW Seattle, WA 98117-5612 #
*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 21:39:31 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "Deborah C. Breton" <>
Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University
Subject: 1890s Olympic Winners?

Hi!

Am looking for info on how to research past Olympic winners. A
newly found cousin (not on-line) has info that an ancestor may
have been an 1890s Olympic winner but does not know how to check
it out ... neither do I! Can anyone help?

Many thanks

Debbie Breton

Midlothian VA
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 21:40:51 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "William F. Holman" <>
Organization: Private
Subject: Re: Circus museums

There is a Circus Museum in Barraboo, Wisconsin. Displays, live acts
daily during the summer months. Research facilities available to
researchers. Part of the State Historic Society of Wisconsin.

--
Bill

(William F. Holman)
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 21:44:17 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Michael Burnett <>
Organization: Cornell University Medical College
Subject: Re: Masonic records and genealogy

In article <4if4do$>, Chet Swanson
<> wrote:

> Todd K. Legg wrote:
> >
> > I believe the above ioof reference is for a group called the
> > International Order of Foresters.
>
> Actually IOOF is the International Order of Odd Fellows.
>
> > They are not Masons.
>
> True, but there used to be (and may still be) a lot of "cross"
> membership. My family were all in the various Masonic, Eastern Star
> and Odd Fellows organizations where they lived. Not being much of a
> joiner, I've never been a member of any, so I can't tell you if Odd
> Fellows is still an active group. Eastern Star and Masons are still
> quite active.

I missed the original question, but, what of Masonic records. As
far as I was aware, The Masons were a secret Society. I have assumed
that membership records were not kept. I have a 2nd or 3rd great
Uncle, William Burnett, who is said to have been an active Mason in
Upstate, Phelps NY, Early 1800's.

Also mentioned in a the Burnett Family Tree, that he was a member of
the Mt. Moriah Lodge in 1802. Sincerity Lodge 1811 and served as
"Worshipful Master", a most important "Rother of the Mystic Lie"
This is information from a relative, but I am intrigued by it. I
suppose as a nominal Catholic I wouldn't be a favorite kin of his,
if he were alive today :-)

Does anyone say I should look into this information with the
expectation that I might find info on him.

--
Michael Burnett
Cornell University Medical College

(Michael Burnett)
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 21:45:50 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Molly P Kernan <>
Organization: Europa Communications, Inc.
Subject: Regional National Archives Branches

There is a Regional National Archives Branch Office in Seattle,
which is about a 4-hour drive from my home. Can I expect to find
the same files at the Regional Branch as I would find in Washington
DC, or would the files be more regional in nature? For example,
might I find a pension file for an ancestor who fought in the Civil
War and died in the Midwest?

Molly Kernan

X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 21:52:30 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "Jackie L. Krear" <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Genealogy Programs (for Macintosh too?)

[ Followups to s.g.computing ... -Mod ]

FOLKS...the BEST genealogy software is FAMILY TREE MAKER, VERSION 2.

I bought version 3, and prefer version 2. The CD which came with both,
has been "improved" and now has almost NO access to a useable printed
list of selected names. Grrr....

What we are finding, with this CD, AND THE "updated" CDs from Broderbund,
are that the data is being locked up tight, keeping it out of the hands
of users to extract meaningful portions of data, and reuse the data in a
format more to their (the user's) liking. This is no doubt a carefully
planned UPDATE, to dictate copyright protection, and to require more
sales of CDs (should you want the data).

But the software, within the genealogy program, is almost ideal.

"Jackie L. Krear " <>
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 21:55:47 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Ronald Cox <>
Organization: Communications Accessibles Montreal
Subject: Re: Canadian web sites

In article <4ievap$>,
(J Martin) wrote:

> To all us Canadians on this list trying to do our Family Tree.
> I have found some really good web sites.
> The place I found them is in the Canadian Living Magazine.
> (April 1996) edition
> At the back Page 190.
> The article is called "Climb your Family Tree" By Marg Meikle.
> There are a few web sites, to visit.

Perhaps one of the best collectors of Canadian web sites is
http://infoweb.magi.com/~holwell/cangene/gene.html

Ron

--

Ronald Cox,
74 Brunswick Dr. Beaconsfield, QC, H9W 5H2, Canada
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 22:01:37 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Sue Phillips <>
Organization: University of Texas at Austin General Libraries
Subject: Help with Berrien County, Michigan

I am searching for the official record of a marriage that apparently
took place in Berrien County, Michigan in March 1850. I understand
that during this time part of Berrien County was located in what is
now Indiana.

Can anyone tell me which county in Indiana might have the marriage
records for Berrien County at this time?

thanks

--
Sue Phillips
Associate Director for Technical Services, General Libraries
University of Texas at Austin Austin, Texas 78713
Phone: 512 / 495-4350 Fax: 512 / 495-4347

(Sue Phillips)
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 22:05:17 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "Robert S. Shaw" <>
Organization: Tandem Computers Inc., Cupertino, CA
Subject: Re: Name the relationship

(Hank Matty) wrote:

> Mary, Hannah, and Deborah, were sisters. Elizabeth and Joseph were
> Mary's children; David was Hannah's son; and Dorothy was Deborah's
> daughter. David m. Elizabeth and Joseph m. Dorothy. Thus, siblings
> each m. first cousins, and their two spouses otherwise also were first
> cousins to each other. David Jr. was born of one marriage, and James
> was born of the other. What name is to be given to the relationship
> between David Jr. and James?

First, you can't expect a few English words to fully convey the
complex family relationship that two people can share. (Do share,
actually, since we are related on all lines if we could trace back
far enough.)

That said, I think the governing priciple for a case such as this is
that the relationship is (in simplest form) taken to be the closest
of the multiple relationships. In this case, David Jr and James
would be termed first cousins (because of the relation through
Elizabeth and Joseph).

Of course David Jr and James have another, independent, relationship:
they are second cousins (via David Sr and Dorothy).

David Jr and James do have additional relationships as second
cousins, one via Elizabeth and Dorothy, and another via David Sr
and Joseph. These relationships should not be considered full second
cousin relationships, however, because a part of the relationship has
already been accounted for in the first cousin relationship.
Nonetheless, these second-cousinhoods do add a bit of relatedness
between them.

In short, they're first cousins plus.

(Robert S. Shaw)
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 22:06:48 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From:
Organization: Internet Online Services
Subject: MARYLAND ROOTS---Is there a group?

Is there a group for Maryland Roots like there is for Virginia and
Kentucky? Anyone who knows will you please post it to this list?
Thanks.

M.K. Perry


X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 22:21:07 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Tom Camfield <>
Organization: Internet for the Olympic Peninsula
Subject: Re: WHY PEOPLE DO NOT REPLY

In article <4ia3os$>, patwary@.epix.net wrote:

> Exactly. Those of us who have been at it long enough realize we're
> all probably related in some way to everyone else, and you just don't
> cheat a relative.

Don't know just how this fits here, but:

"I consider it the chief function of history to ensure that virtue
be remembered..." -- Tacitus, in "Annals" (don't know the date, but it
must be somewhere around A. D. 80-90). This pretty much describes the
driving force involved as I write about my parents, my siblings, my
children, my wife, my grandparents...

Of course, a bit of "color" on the side doesn't hurt. :-)

Tom Camfield -
538 Calhoun St., Port Townsend WA 98368
Curmudgeon Emeritus, School of Hard Knocks
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 22:19:59 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Joe Mapes <>
Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc.
Subject: Re: old newspaper research

You can check with your local public library. There is a Union List
of Newspapers - those available on microfilm, and where they may be
obtained, and for what years. It is a national listing.

Joe Mapes <>
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 22:31:24 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Tom Camfield <>
Organization: Internet for the Olympic Peninsula
Subject: Re: We're Back!

In article <4i468a$>, (Brian Leverich)
wrote:

> We're going to clean out the backlogged articles using our current
> site, then we are moving the moderation of soc.genealogy.methods
> to RootsWeb. That should alleviate the reliability problems we've
> been having for the last two months.

And thank you for your continuing selfless efforts!

[ Thanks! And I'll use this as an excuse to pass along a status
report. Everything is working well at RootsWeb and we're catching
up on backlogged posts -- we're running with about a 36 hour
delay now, but we should be fully caught up and running with our
usual 0-12 hour delay by tomorrow.

The outgoing feeds to 4 different sites seems to have sped up
the propagation of approved posts -- we're starting to get replies
within minutes of when the original post was approved. We'll be
adding more outgoing feeds next week, which should make things even
a bit faster yet. -Mod ]

Tom Camfield -
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 22:34:33 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Tom Camfield <>
Organization: Internet for the Olympic Peninsula
Subject: Specifics in Posting Titles

In various of the genealogical groups, I continually encounter
postings titled "A mystery,' "Seeking father," "Lost in Missouri,"
"Can You Help?," etc.

I have iterated and reiterated that many such vague titles often fail
to halt the newsgroup skimmer with limited time at his/her disposal.
Specifics help everyone concerned: i.e., "Seeking WARNER 1806, Vt.,"
"Don JAMES, ca. 1920, Chicago," "BLANKINSHIP, Missouri 1840," "N.C.
BREVARDS, ca. 1800," etc.

Soc.genealogy surnames is a good example of ease in reading. It
contains name, place and date; and one can whip through it quite
quickly. There is no uninformative "cuteness" (itself generally a
turnoff to many of us), vagueness, careless misspelling of the
obviously-not-all-that-great-a-sharing types, etc., involved in
posting titles here.

Joe Friday said it best: "Just the facts, M'am."

--
Tom Camfield -
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 22:35:55 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Hollick & Clark <>
Organization: Hollick & Clark
Subject: Virginia Family Bibles

Note that a collection of family Bible Records are now online in this
project.

The Library of Virginia

Digital Library Projects

The Library of Virginia is pleased to announce the completion of
Phase I of its Digital Library Project. The Project, initiated in
1995, preserves significant Virginia archival and library
collections and extends access to these collections to anyone with
Internet access. The Project is available via the Library of
Virginia Home Page (http://leo.vsla.edu/lva/lva.html). Over 600,000
images were scanned, and 40 electronic finding aids were created to
access the images as well as other materials in the Library's
collection. The major components of Phase I are the Virginia
Colonial Records Project, the U.S. Army Signal Corps Photograph
Collection, the collection of family Bible records, and the
Electronic Card Indexes Project (indexes to 36 separate archival
and library collections). The Library used existing and emerging
technologies in imaging and document preservation, as well as
current MARC standards, throughout the project.

The Electronic Card Index Project digitized and preserved more than
850,000 deteriorating catalog cards, comprising 36 unique finding
aids to archival and library collections. These images are indexed
via a VTLS, Inc. search engine originally developed for the
Princeton University card catalog. High-resolution scanning
processes preserved these rare finding aids which were previously
available only to on-site library patrons. More than 500,000
microfilm images of the Library's Land Office Patent and Grants
collection were scanned and will be linked to the corresponding
electronic card index.

The Virginia Colonial Records Project was established in the 1950s
to survey and reconstitute Virginia's colonial documentary history
located in more than 100 British and European repositories. The
Library's bibliographic index contains references to more than
500,000 personal names and ship names found in 28,000 pages of
Survey Reports which describe the archival holdings located in the
various repositories. Links from the index to the digitized images
of the Survey Reports are via an HTML Gateway utilizing the MARC
856 field.

The Library's extensive family Bible Records collection is often
the only source of Virginia vital statistics prior to 1853 and from
1896 through 1912. A bibliographic index to this collection already
exists. All of the Library's 100,000 Bible records have been
scanned, and the images will be linked to the index via the MARC
856 field.

The U.S. Army Signal Corps Photograph Collection consists of 3,500
black and white photographs taken during World War II at the
Hampton Roads Port of Embarkation. Signal Corps photographers and
port historians documented the enormous amount of activity which
took place at this major military center. MARC records were
created from the extensive captions that accompanied each
photograph. The scanned images of the photographs are linked to
these records, and the database is keyword searchable by personal
name, ship name, place name, and other terms.

Phase II of the Project, scheduled for completion by September,
1996, will provide an additional one million digital images of
historic archival and library documents, as well as new electronic
finding aids.

The Library consulted with VTLS, Inc. regarding collection
identification, appropriate storage media, preservation methods,
and scanning techniques. Library staff also worked with VTLS to
develop and implement all imaging, quality control and cataloging
processes for the project. The VTLS Virtua-Web Gateway provides
the HTML interface for The Library's bibliographic databases,
digital images, and Electronic Card Catalogs.

The Library of Virginia also sponsors the Virginia Library and
Information Network (VLIN), providing Internet access and services
for more than 3,000 Virginia librarians located in more than 550
libraries.

For more information about the Digital Library Project, contact
Elizabeth Roderick, Project Coordinator, The Library of Virginia,
email: phone: (804) 786-2975.
--
Elizabeth Roderick email ()
Assistant Director, Library Development voice (804) 786-2975
and Networking Division fax (804) 225-4608
The Library of Virginia home (804) 231-1774
11th at Capitol Square
Richmond, VA 23219

*****************************************************
http://leo.vsla.edu/lva/lva.html
The LVA Digital Library Initiative
*****************************************************

(Hollick & Clark)
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 23:37:44 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Charlotte Cottongame <>
Organization: UniComp Technologies International Corp -- Internet Service
Subject: Re: old newspaper research

There is a book called Newspapers in Microform: United States.
Listed by town, alphabetically, within the states, you will find the
names of newspapers and the dates they were published which are held
in various repositories around the country. I found the book at the
LDS Library in Salt Lake. Maybe a major public library near you
would have one. They can arrange an Interlibrary loan to receive
the microfilm you need.

Charlotte Cottongame <>
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 23:38:55 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Charlotte Cottongame <>
Organization: UniComp Technologies International Corp -- Internet Service
Subject: Re: Odd Fellows research & magazine?

If the Odd Fellows are as secretive as the Masons, I doubt you will
receive much information of value. I wish it would be so -- I have
one in my background, too!

Charlotte Cottongame <>
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 23:41:24 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Cheryl Abdullah <>
Organization: The Greater Columbus FreeNet
Subject: Database search rules (again)

Hello, I wrote to this group more than a year ago to request the
wording for the database search rules--what I got either didn't
work, or I was doing something wrong. I would appreciate receiving,
again, instructions for undertaking a DS. Many sincere thanks,

Cheryl
X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 23:44:19 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From:
Organization: PSS InterNet Services, Interneting Florida and beyond 904 253 7100
Subject: First Participant's Post To New Newsgroup

Good! A newsgroup devoted (I trust) to guiding amateur and
professional genealogists in their searches for generational roots
and family ties. Here are a few questions to get things started:

1.) Where are the best sources for researching surnames?
Online:

Offline:

2.) How does one find the "root" of a family surname?

3.) How does one go about using the services of the LDS (Church of
Latter Day Saints)? Are fees attached or donations requested for the
services of the LDS? If using the LDS for research, is there a format
to requesting data?

This is a simple list, the beginning of what is hoped to be a lengthy
and informative thread.

Rod McLean Barken


X-Message:
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 23:47:05 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Sally Jones <>
Organization: None
Subject: Proposed new newsgroup: soc.gen.west-indies

A "Request for Discussion" (RFD) for a newsgroup dedicated to the
genealogy of the West Indies has been posted to
news.announce.newgroups.

You are invited to join in the discussion about this proposed new
newsgroup in: news.groups

The discussion period lasts for 21 days, after which there will be
a "Call for Votes"

Sally
--
_____________________________________________________
Sally Jones - EMail
Sevenoaks, Kent, England
X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 12:04:40 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Dwight Kilpatrick <>
Organization: ExplorerPlus
Subject: Canadian web sites

Hi J,

A couple of days ago you sent this??

In soc.genealogy.methods (J Martin) said:
>
>To all us Canadians on this list trying to do our Family Tree. I have
>found some really good web sites. The place I found them is in the
>Canadian Living Magazine. (April 1996) edition At the back Page 190.
>The article is called "Climb your Family Tree" By Marg Meikle. There
>are a few web sites, to visit.

Thx for the reference??, But, how about the web sites?? URLs???

I personally can't get a copy of this mag to review at this point!

Dwight Kilpatrick

X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 12:14:33 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Steve Broyles <>
Organization: Teradyne, Inc.
Subject: Re: Meaning of Signs?

I've done a bit of research on this very interesting puzzle.
Astrology isn't my thing, but I took a crack at it. (You
might try posting to alt.astrology.)

I have Thode's German Genealogical Dictionary, and I
remembered it had some old symbols used in German parish
records. Indeed, the signs of the zodiac were listed,
along with a notation that sometimes "they used Moon signs
so the signs are off by a few months" (or words to
this effect).

So I used the Alta Vista search engine to locate web pages
containing "moon signs" (quotations needed). Do same and
read the page titled Star Diva. This explains that the moon
moves through the 12 signs one each month, or about 2.5
days per sign. That's real quick! And it explains why
the signs don't make sense when compared to the more common
Sun signs (12 signs per year).

(Note that Thode's comment about being off by a few months
doesn't jibe with this).

Another reference at Alta Vista is the Hagerstown Almanack,
located at http://www.intercom.net/local/weeg/doug.html.
This almanac was founded by a German immigrant in the late
1700's and even today boasts that it has Moon sign data.

I took the birthdate info, the moon's period as found
in my World Almanac, and a spreadsheet program and tried to
find a moon cycle that would explain all of the birthdates.
Unfortunately, it doesn't work as well as I'd like. I
imagine the sign tables in the late 1700's were pretty good,
but small errors can loom large when extended over the two
decades of births. I'm guessing they corrected their tables
periodically based on what they saw in the sky.
There's what I might term approximate agreement that there's
a monthly cycle involved, and it's interesting that only
about 8 of the 12 signs show up as 'used' by a birth.

I should note that another analysis pointed out a
possible 550 day (18 month) cycle. The closest heavinly
body I could find was Venus, which takes 584 days
to work its way through the 12 signs, with a complicated
motion that's beyond my mathematical ability. Astrologers
appear to be interested in the signs of the planets, too,
and combine the signs of the planets, sun, and moon to create
a picture for an individual. The most important heavenly
bodies are different for boys and girls, by the way.

Steve Broyles <>
X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 12:16:49 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "Linda L. Andrews" <>
Organization: The Andrews School
Subject: Re: Indian Territory (Oklahoma)

Hi!
I'm a member of the First Families of the Twin Territories. My
granfather, Roy Ornduff Collings and his parents William O Collings
from Texas and Annie Huffman (from Iowa) came to Oklahoma around 1895
to what is now Edmond, OK. The 1880 census records for Indian
Territory are pretty good. There is a great deal of information
available at our Oklahoma Historical Society.

Best Regards from Oklahoma City (remember us on April 19th)


X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 12:18:56 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Catherine Stiles <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Indian Territory (Oklahoma)

I have researched quite a bit in Oklahoma, however it has been
several years and the details have blurred in my mind. I know it
gets complicated and frustrating because the records are so
fragmented. One thing that makes is hard is that the Indian tribal
records are kept separately (I have never gotten into them). What I
was researching was "white" settlers living in Indian Territory.
Also since the records prior to 1907 were Federal they don't follow
the normal county patterns.

CENSUS RECORDS. The earliest census which included Oklahoma is
the 1860 census of Arkansas which included what was then Indian
Territory. The census does not list Indians but covers free and slave
inhabitants in the Cherokee, Choctaw, Creek, and Seminole nations.
No 1880 census for Oklahoma. Of course 1890 Federas census was
destroyed but there are schedules of Civil War veterans and widows
for Oklahoma. There was an 1890 territorial census taken in the
counties that existed then. The 1900 federal census has separate
schedules for Indian Territory and for Oklahoma Territory. There is a
microfilm soundex for the 1900 census.

SMITH'S DIRECTORY (Oklahoma, 1890) lists names and addresses of
people living in the Oklahoma Territory in 1890.

MARRIAGES: Prior to statehood (1907), marriages of white
citizens, in that part of the state known as Indian Territory, were
recorded in the various Recording Districts of the United States
Federal Court. Believe these are on microfilm. Also, there have been
some compilations done.

There are even some immigration records included in the Federal
Court records--there were a lot of foreign born people who came to
Oklahoma (mostly for mining).

Most of these records are available at the LDS libraries on microfilm.
You have to search a lot (and creatively), to find them in the
catalog, though. I can't remember just how they are indexed, but
believe you have to go into the "Federal" or "Indian" sections to
find them. The 1900 census is indexed in a separate index, not with
Oklahoma.

You also might want to write to the Oklahoma Historical Society,
Historical Building, Oklahoma City, OK 73105 and see what
information they can give you. They don't do interlibrary loans, but
you can buy some microfilms from them (I know for sure that they
have microfilm of newspapers for sale).

Might be good if you find a history of that time and read it. Will
make the record keeping easier to understand.

Good luck. Cathy (Catherine Stiles )
X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 12:22:31 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From:
Organization: Dept. of Computer Sci - University of Illinois
Subject: Records Management

Re the problem of keeping one's data in a form that can be shared
with others:

There seem to be two main ways that folks keep their records. Some
use one of the genealogy programs to store their databases. Others
keep them as text in a word processor file.

For those who use a genealogy program, the best way to share probably
is to export the database in GEDCOM format and email that. While
there have been several exchanges about compressing such files, it
seems to me best not to compress a file without determining first
whether the recipient has the software to reverse the process.
GEDCOM files are straight ASCII text, and are ok to email as they are.

For those who keep files in a text processor (e.g., WordPerfect), I
suggest that the best way to share with someone who does not have the
same word processor on the same kind of machine is to convert to
ASCII text. Most word processors will allow one to "print" with the
destination being a disk file rather than a printer. That's what you
want to use. It's a good idea if necessary to first adjust your word
processor to use a line of not more than 80 characters, which will be
convenient to read on almost all machines. The resulting file should
be a plain ASCII version of the original document file. Then just
email that file.

International symbols (letters with accent marks, etc.) raise further
problems for both of the above methods. Such characters are not part
of the ASCII character set. What's worse, they show up differently on
different kinds of computers -- they won't look the same on a DOS
machine, a Unix machine, or a Macintosh. Sometimes, they show up as
ugly things like \123 or =27 or some such construct, which is
meaningful to the program that created it, but not necessarily to any
other program or to any human. So you either avoid them, or put up
with the incompatibilities. They can mess up when emailed, but they
usually make the trip without further problems.

What you DON'T want to do, if you can avoid it, is to keep two
databases having the "same" information, or to retype your data.
Both methods will tend to develop errors and discrepancies, and you
might not even be able to easily determine which is correct when you
notice that they disagree.

H. George Friedman, Jr.
Department of Computer Science
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
1304 West Springfield Avenue
Urbana, Illinois 61801

X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 12:25:53 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Ricardo Palomar <>
Organization: Lander Internet
Subject: Spanish Surname Search Locations?

Hello,

Where Can I search names in relation with genealogy, specially in
Spanish? (e.g. conexion with some Library).

What Internet site name do I have to conect to get information about
spanish names Genealogy in Spain , Europe or Latin Country?

There is any latin University to get genealogy access?

Please, send me information by Email only , to

[ As always, please CC: to on any responses
which may be of interest to the group. Tnx, Mod ]

Thank you very much,

Ricardo.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Ricardo Palomar
---------------------------------------------------------------
X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 12:29:15 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Hank Matty <>
Organization: Arizona Daily Star - AZSTARNET
Subject: Re: Name the relationship

In article <4iuomh$> (Richard Pence) writes:
>From: (Richard Pence)
>Subject: Re: Name the relationship
>Date: 22 Mar 1996 09:40:33 -0800

> p> From: (Philip Harbour)

> p> As I see it, David Jr. and James are simply 2nd cousins and nothing
> p> more. However, Dorothy is both mother and 1st cousin once removed to
> p> James. Likewise Elizabeth is both mother and 1st cousin once removed
> p> to David.

>My e-mail to Phil said: "Second cousins."

>However, I added that since the same relationship exists through
>both parents, some would call them "double second cousins."

> (Richard Pence)

Hi, Richard,

Sorry to disagree. Second cousins share descent from one of the four
greatgrandparent pairs each has. David Jr and James are triple
second cousins, since each of them has only one pair of
greatgrandparents not common in their descents.

Since I began this thread by posting the puzzle of my Jacob sisters
ancestry, most of the comments were returned to me by E-mail (unless
I missed posts while the list was shut down recently), and many
proffered multiple relationships as an answer. Commonly, the
subjects were described as "first cousins and....". However, the
fact is that triple third cousins, as a term, makes redundant any
reference to the subjects as first cousins, since that is included in
the term as a necessity.

I have proposed a loose term, _Pitcairn Relationship_ for those
relationships enough complicated from intermarriages as to require
attentive analysis.

My larger interest is in the development of an Index of Relationship.
Last year, I posted a question about a single metric for the
expression of the degree of closeness of a relationship. The
ensueing thread extended over a month, but surprisingly, every post
without exception, dealt with the statistics of genetic inheritance.
In my view, we would do better to develop an Index to reflect the
degree of topographical closeness. I stake no claim to the last word
on the matter, and will be pleased should the topic be of enough
interest to others for them to contribute to it.

(Hank Matty)
X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 12:35:38 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Wes Jester <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Records Management

This may not work for everybody. I keep my information in Word for
Windows 6.0. When I am satified that the informtion is as clean as I
can get it, I print it in DOS text format. This way, I can attach
the file to any message and send it out. The recipient has only to
open the file with their favorite Word processor and include it into
their own documents. They may then format it to own liking.

I admit that I wish I could include the "fancy" stuff, like font
changes and such, but in the interset of being able to share the
data, I think it is a small price to pay.

The other method I sometimes use is to create a GEDCOM file of the
particular branch of the family desired. I then import this into an
empty database and trim out unwanted descendencies. I then export
this database to a new GEDCOM which is then sent to the requester.
Since I use Brothers Keeper for Windows, this is a very simple task.
All of my notes and other write-ups are included in the GEDCOM.

When I send this out, I usually remind the recipient to import the
file into a blank database and then do whatever trimming may be
required. They may then export the final GEDCOM and import it into
their primary file.

I will be interested to see how others solve the problem

Wes


Local Curmudgeon, re-enactor extraordinaire

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Records Management
Author: at ORL-SMTP-G
Date: 96/3/22 12:22 PM

I have Dayna's permission to quote from her e-mail. She wrote:

I have over 10 surnames I'd like to submit to your list but
I don't have time to sit and type these charts up in different
formats for inquiries. What is the BEST way to do this????
To help you answer my question, I have Windows 95, WP6.1, FTM
and Eudora programs on my computer.


X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 12:40:55 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Ray Dobbs <>
Organization: Redstone Arsenal. Alabama
Subject: Re: Military Records

(Mike Dekarske) wrote:

>My father-in-law died last April. Up until he died, I never knew
>about his military record. He received several medals while serving
>in WWII.

>Is there any way to find anything about where he fought? What
>campaigns he was involved in?

Try the following National Personnel Records Center
Military Personnel Records
9700 Page Avenue
St. Louis, MO 63132-5100
phone 314-538-4261
DSN 639-3901

The above folks are your worst nightmare regarding the US Government
and Civil Service. So please be very gentle and have a lot of
patience. You must prove the your existance and death details and
the like. The rewards of your search will truly amaze you. The US
Government keeps excellant records and eventually will share them
with you - albeit not very easily.

Cheers, RAY

P.S. I will receive my forty year service pen very shortly.

Ray Dobbs <>
X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 12:42:06 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Mary Anne Waltz <>
Organization: The University at Albany
Subject: Embarrassing question

I have never seen sources listed for the kind of information I need.
It's not the high point in anyone's family history, so that may help
to explain it. Here's my problem.

My grandparents put my g-grandfather in what family members call "the
county home" and/or "the poor house." He died there, and no one knows
when, or where he is buried. In fact, two different people have told
me two different (but adjacent) county names. I do have a probable
name for my g-grandfather and a possible range of years for his
residence in the home. Can some one point me in the right direction
to identify and then contact "county homes" and "county poor houses"
of the 1920s and 1930s in PA?

Thanks.
Mary Anne Waltz

Mary Anne Waltz <>
X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 12:50:34 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Leonard Campbell <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Leap year

Crawford - Judith <> wrote:
>
> All genealogist are concerned with the calender. When is Leap year
> leaped over? I heard from several sources (I do not know how valid
> they were) that leap year only happens when the last two digits of
> the year are devisible by 4 which means that the year 2,000 will not
> be a Leap Year. Is this correct? If so, does this mean that the
> year 1,900 was not a Leap Year? Would this make a difference in
> figuring the day of the week before 1900? Please reply. This has
> never occured in my life time so I don't have a clue.

I'd love to know how many responses you get. Here's mine.

Leap years are any year evenly divisible by four; centuries must be
evenly divisable by 500. So, 1900, not divisible by 500 but
divisible by four was NOT at leap year. 2000, divisible by 500 and 4
is a leap year. And sometime in the future even one of the years
divisible by 500 has to be dropped, but we aren't going to be around
to see it so I'm not worried.

Len
--
Leonard Campbell

PO Box 972,
168 Old Center Harbor Rd
Center Harbor, NH 03226
X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 12:57:03 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: anne Hood <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: 1850s Black Genealogy Methods?

I saw a show once on the Freedmens bank records. The Freedmens bank
was a bank for Freed Slaves after the War. The records have been
micro-filmed by state. The show I saw was produced by the Memphis
Library, and was shown on The Library Channel on Cable. Apparently,
often the depositors at the bank couldn't sign their names, and they
had a system od asking questions that only the depositor would know.
I believe I saw Freedmen Bank records in The AGLL (American Genealogy
Lending Library) Catalog. The LDS Church ought to have them, too.

As Always,
Anne

In a message dated 96-03-22 16:22:05 EST, you write:

>I have traced my g-g-grandfather back to Mississippi by using the
>1880 census report. On that report it lists his age as 26 and his
>place of birth as Mississippi. However, I have no idea what county
>in Missippi he was born in. His name is Hugh Lewis, and he would
>have been born in about 1854. He was a Black man so it is quite
>probable that he was born a slave. I have no other info except
>that his mother's first name was Hanna. Can anyone help?


X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 12:58:57 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "B.J.Scott User" <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Leap Year

According to the Genealogical calendar 1753-2000, effective when the
Gregorian Calendar was adopted by England and its colonies, and
published by the National Genealogical Society, Arlington, VA, the
years 1800, 1900 amd 2000 are not leap years. On non-leap years the
following year starts one day later on the calendar day of the week
than the year before except the year following leap year starts two
calendar days later. For example: this January 1 started on a Monday
and last year (1995) started on a Sunday. But next year is a year
following a leap year and January 1st will be on a Wednesday.
Perhaps with will help Judith C. with her query.


X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 13:02:30 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Greg Maxfield <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: LDS Baptism and sealing of records - ADDENDUM

In a message dated 96-03-22 12:42:38 EST, Jeff Thompson wrote:

> but they do happen to benefit from our work in the long
>term. So there is a little self interest there.

As an active LDS member and genealogist who has spent countless hours
and even years going research, I am wondering exactly "how" it is
that I am benefitting. Seems to me that the work we do is one of
love and concern. I mean, its not like we're going to be collecting
any tithing anytime soon from any we baptize, not like we are getting
any thank you notes or anything of the sort. :-)

Seriously though, I do appreciate all the wonderful contributions of
societies and individuals and groups and etc. throughout the world.
Many times their work has made my own research much easier and
prevented countless hours of duplicated research. There are probably
as many reasons for doing genealogy as there are people doing it. I
don't think that the reason that anyone gets started is as important
as recognizing that we all share a common goal: finding our ancestors,
bringing honor to their lives and sacrifices, maybe finding out a
little about ourselves along the way and having a good time at it.
Maybe we shouldn't question each others motives as much as ask how we
can help.

Greg


X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 13:14:18 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Tom Graham <>
Organization: NeoSoft Internet Services +1 713 968 5800
Subject: Re: Broderbund Announces--World Family Tree Submitter Information
Service

In article <4iuok0$>, Rod McLean Barken
<> wrote:

>While the program (Family Tree Maker) is well-organized for the
>coallating of family information in an easy-to-understand database,
>it and the accompanying information is of little real use in the
>gathering of needed genealogical information.
>
>My advice: Buy the "stripped" version of the program, save yourself
>$30, and ignore the hype.

I have found hundreds of family members using the Family Tree Disks.
The information on these disks has saved me countless hours of
research in libraries and court houses and provided leads to other
information. They are well worth the money.

Tom Graham
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

http://www.neosoft.com/~grahatd
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 13:09:45 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Evan Davis <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Indian Territory (Oklahoma)

If you find out please let me know. I have been looking for them to.
I do know that the LDS as some, but there are 11 or 12 microfilms of
them.
Falstar

On Fri, 22 Mar 1996, John Wheat wrote:

> Does anyone know how to get genealogical records for people who
> lived in the Indian Territory (Oklahoma)? Any suggestions would
> be extremely helpful. Please EMail me at:

[ John Wheat, if you have time I think a number of readers would
appreciate it if you could post a summary ... Tnx, Mod ]
X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 13:11:32 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Evan Davis <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Leap year

Judith:
In 1900 there was no leapyear. There is a lady here
(Scottsbuff, NE) that just turned 24, but she was born in 1896. She
was born on Feb. 29.
Falstar

On Fri, 22 Mar 1996, Crawford - Judith <> wrote:

> All genealogist are concerned with the calender. When is Leap year
> leaped over? I heard from several sources (I do not know how valid
> they were) that leap year only happens when the last two digits of
> the year are devisible by 4 which means that the year 2,000 will not
> be a Leap Year. Is this correct? If so, does this mean that the
> year 1,900 was not a Leap Year? Would this make a difference in
> figuring the day of the week before 1900? Please reply. This has
> never occured in my life time so I don't have a clue.

Evan Davis <>
X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 13:17:48 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "" <>
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Subject: Re: Is it worth sending a letter to an Irish or Scotish Newspaper

Michael, yes I definitely think it is worthwile for you to bother with
the newspapers. I sent a letter to the Anglo-Celt looking for my
Henry and Love ancestors, and while I did not hear from any one who
knew anything about them, I did become acquaninted with a fellow from
Ballyhaise who has given me a few usefull clues and well as beinging
a fine friend to me. While I found no new information about my
ancestors as a direct result of my article to the newspaper in Co
Cavan Ireland, I have had wonderful results from other similar "long
shots." Good luck.

Sally Henry
Augusta GA

()
X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 13:19:41 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "Linda L. Andrews" <>
Organization: The Andrews School
Subject: Re: Deceased Social Security #

What information is the social security application going to give me?


X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 13:22:07 -0800
Reply-To: ANV 11VA <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: ANV 11VA <>
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Subject: Re: Masonic records and genealogy

Can someone out there tell me how I can find out if 2 specific men
were Masons in a certain small town at the same time during a certain
time-period of the early 19th century? I do not know if records of
Masonic membership are kept or, if so, for how long and where. The
state would be West Virginia, Virginia during the time period of
interest. Please reply to my E-mail address:



[ As usual, please CC: to any replies which
might be of general interest. Tnx, Mod ]

Thanks. Joan Logan Brooks
X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 13:25:44 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Dennis Thrush <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: old newspaper research

You wrote:

>Can I only dream about such indexes, and the only real world solution
>is to sit down and read all of the daily newspapers from my great
>grandfather's birth to death in Rochester, looking for interesting
>articles?
>
><<<<<<<<<<<<<< NASA Lewis Research Center >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Dave McKissock
>Aerospace Engineer
>

Did I hear you volunteer to index the newspapers for Rochester,
N.Y.? :)

Dennis Thrush

X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 13:28:32 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Dennis Thrush <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: 1890s Olympic Winners?

At 09:39 PM 3/22/96 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Am looking for info on how to research past Olympic winners. A
>newly found cousin (not on-line) has info that an ancestor may
>have been an 1890s Olympic winner but does not know how to check
>it out ... neither do I! Can anyone help?
>
>Debbie Breton
>
>Midlothian VA

Hi Debbie,

In a quick search with Web Crawler, I found this site:

http://www.cam.org/%7Efishon1/olhist.html

There are no records at this site for 1896, but you may have some
luck following the links from this site, or with other search engines.

Good luck,

Dennis Thrush

X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 13:31:39 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Dennis Thrush <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Masonic records and genealogy

At 09:44 PM 3/22/96 -0800, you wrote:
>
>I missed the original question, but, what of Masonic records. As
>far as I was aware, The Masons were a secret Society. I have assumed
>that membership records were not kept. I have a 2nd or 3rd great
>Uncle, William Burnett, who is said to have been an active Mason in
>Upstate, Phelps NY, Early 1800's.
>
>Also mentioned in a the Burnett Family Tree, that he was a member of
>the Mt. Moriah Lodge in 1802. Sincerity Lodge 1811 and served as
>"Worshipful Master", a most important "Rother of the Mystic Lie"
>This is information from a relative, but I am intrigued by it. I
>suppose as a nominal Catholic I wouldn't be a favorite kin of his,
>if he were alive today :-)
>
>Does anyone say I should look into this information with the
>expectation that I might find info on him.
>
>--
> (Michael Burnett)

Hi Michael,

I've found that EVERY lead is a possible source of further info.
Just a few weeks ago, someone announced that they were setting up a
query list on her home page, but neglected to put her web address in
the message. I sent her a private message with the names and areas
that I am searching, and asked that she add them to her page. I then
kidded her about no web page address. She answered that my info was
added, and what the address was. She told me she thought that I
should check out the page, because there may be two matches. I did
and found one possible match. I E-mailed the sender, found a distant
cousin living within 50 miles of where I was born and raised. I also
found 200 years of family history that I didn't know about. It took
one line from 1813 back to the 1620s.

Check out the Masons, you never know what you may find.

Good luck,

Dennis Thrush

X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 13:33:11 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Kimm <>
Organization: Netcom
Subject: Protocol

I have been fortunate enough to have received a couple of files from
other researchers on one of my lines. My question is this: All I
received is the information..no documentation along with it. Do I now
have to prove all of this as well or can I keep it as it is and still
consider it valid? Also, how do I handle this new information if I
want to pass it along to others? I want to make sure I give credit
where it is due, I also don't want to give away unverified information.
I'm really confused as to dealing with this. One of the files is
literally several hundreds of names. Any response is appreciated. :)

Kimm

(Kimm )
X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 13:43:19 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Hank Matty <>
Organization: Arizona Daily Star - AZSTARNET
Subject: Re: Name the relationship

In article <4iusr4$> "Kevin Dye"
<> writes:

>Wed 13 Mar 1996, Hank Matty <>:

> "Mary, Hannah, and Deborah, were sisters. Elizabeth and Joseph
> were Mary's children; David was Hannah's son; and Dorothy was
> Deborah's daughter. David m. Elizabeth and Joseph m. Dorothy.
> Thus, siblings each m. first cousins, and their two spouses
> otherwise also were first cousins to each other. David Jr. was
> born of one marriage, and James was born of the other. What name
> is to be given to the relationship between David Jr. and James?"

>Thu 14 Mar 1996, Philip Harbour <>:

> "As I see it, David Jr. and James are simply 2nd cousins and
> nothing more. However, Dorothy is both mother and 1st cousin
> once removed to James. Likewise Elizabeth is both mother and 1st
> cousin once removed to David."

>Sat 16 Mar 1996, Hank Matty <>:

> "Sorry I must disagree. David Jr. and James were double second
> cousins. Not to quibble, but one might say there were two
> aspects to that relationship instead of "two relationships". To
> be double second cousins includes the first cousin relationship
> as a non-separable part."

>Both Phil and Hank's analysis above are confused.
>James and David Jr. -are- first cousins.

>In the case at issue, James and David Jr. have Mary as a common
>grandmother, so we stop there and call them first cousins. There's
>no need to trace back yet a third generation and mention the
>(unnamed) common parents of Mary, Hannah and Deborah.

>The statement "To be double second cousins includes the first cousin
>relationship as a non-separable part" is absolutely false. To see a
>case where double second cousins are not first cousins, let's just
>modify the example slightly. Imagine that Elizabeth and Joseph were
>not siblings. If Joseph were the son of yet a fourth sister of Mary,
>Hannah and Deborah, then James and David Jr. would be double second
>cousins, but not first cousins.

Mar 16 statement, above, regarding double second cousins, etc. etc.,
was mine, but I made it in an E-mail reply, and have no idea how
that turned into a post. I discovered my error, a slip of the
keyboard really, and sent a corrected E-mail the next day. The
correction I sent, with apology, was that David Jr and James were
TRIPLE SECOND COUSINS, and the first cousin relationship is redundant
because it is a necessary part of being triple second cousins.
Unfortunately, the correction didn't get posted to the thread. I
regret botching up this otherwise interesting thread. Still, that
need not prevent us from noting why David Jr and James were triple
second cousins. It is because three out of the four possible pairs
of greatgrandparents are the same for both boys, and one each is
different.

In the initial post, I noted that the puzzle was taken from the
descendancy of Nicholas Jacob, 1597-1657.

[ IMPORTANT POINT TO POSTERS: please be careful about posting quotes
from private e-mail to the group -- depending upon circumstance,
that can be considered a serious breach of netiquette, and the
moderators can't always be trusted to catch it.

BTW, the posting of summaries of helpful responses you receive to a
query is the one major exception to the "don't quote private
e-mail" netiquette, and even then you should use judgment on what
you quote. -Mod ]

(Hank Matty)
X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 14:54:19 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Brian Leverich <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Finding Out About RootsWeb

Several s.g.methods submissions have asked about RootsWeb. The short answer
is that RootsWeb is an Internet site being developed first to provide the
Internet genealogical community with very inexpensive access to online
databases and second to provide support to newsgroup moderation, mailing list
operation, database maintenance, and other volunteer-oriented Internet
activities.

RootsWeb is now supporting ROOTS-L prescreening, RSL preparation, s.g.methods
moderation, and is providing a backup administrative mailing list for the
listowners at Apple's eWorld. RootsWeb has offered and may provide support
to the s.g.african and s.g.surnames moderation teams.

RootsWeb will start providing public access to databases this summer, though
we will provide "beta test" access to everyone starting much sooner than that.

RootsWeb is nominally commercial, but its income will be entirely returned
to data providers and spent on operational costs (hardware, net access, and
the programming of search engines). Because it is commercial, formal
announcements concerning RootsWeb should and will appear in s.g.marketplace.

RootsWeb's URL is:

http://www.rootsweb.com/

and the latest news will always be available there. Watch that site. (-8

--
Dr. Brian Leverich
Co-moderator, soc.genealogy.methods/GENMTD-L
RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative

X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 15:23:08 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "FirstName M. LastName" <>
Organization: The Pennsylvania State University
Subject: Re: Chicago Help

i need info on last name yarwood in chicago area. specifically, cook
county. i was born there in 1967.

[ Please, all new users! Before using the e-mail features in Netscape
or Eudora or whatever, you must fill in the information about who you
are. Look in your menus for the Configuration or Settings or Options.
Otherwise there is =no= way for people to know who you are and how
to send you e-mail. Or explain that detailed questions inspire better
answers and that surname queries should be sent to the surnames
group... -- Mod ]

"FirstName M. LastName" <>
X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 15:33:55 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "Linda L. Andrews" <>
Organization: The Andrews School
Subject: Re: Records Management

wrote:
>
> Re the problem of keeping one's data in a form that can be shared
> with others:
>
> There seem to be two main ways that folks keep their records. Some
> use one of the genealogy programs to store their databases. Others
> keep them as text in a word processor file.
>
[ snip ]
>
> What you DON'T want to do, if you can avoid it, is to keep two
> databases having the "same" information, or to retype your data.
> Both methods will tend to develop errors and discrepancies, and you
> might not even be able to easily determine which is correct when you
> notice that they disagree.
>
[ snip ]

This is just the problem I have been trying to resolve: whether to
keep two databases and tranfer data from time to time. I'll follow
your advice. Thanks!


X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 16:07:10 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: JoAnn Gemmrig <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Protocol

At 01:33 PM 3/23/96 -0800, you wrote:
>I have been fortunate enough to have received a couple of files from
>other researchers on one of my lines. My question is this: All I
>received is the information..no documentation along with it.

Treat as hearsay. Prove what you want/need to or all of it if you
want.
You can at least cite your source as whomever sent it to you.
Specify that it is undocumented, especially if you share it. Sharing it is
fine as long as it is known to be undoc'd. Who knows the next person you
compare with, might have some proof you can attach to things in this
information.

JoAnn
General and in-depth genealogical research:
Eastern Washington,
Northern Idaho,
Northeastern Oregon and
Western Montana - U.S.A.

"If you don't have time to do it right the first time...
when are you going to find time to do it again?"

JoAnn Gemmrig <>
X-Message:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 17:21:17 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Robert Ragan <>
Organization: FUTURE VIEW
Subject: Re: Canadian web sites

(Dwight Kilpatrick) wrote:
>
>Hi J,
>
>A couple of days ago you sent this??
>
>
>In soc.genealogy.methods (J Martin) said:
>>
>>To all us Canadians on this list trying to do our Family Tree. I have
>>found some really good web sites. The place I found them is in the
>>Canadian Living Magazine. (April 1996) edition At the back Page 190.
>>The article is called "Climb your Family Tree" By Marg Meikle. There
>>are a few web sites, to visit.
>
>
>Thx for the reference??, But, how about the web sites?? URLs???
>
>I personally can't get a copy of this mag to review at this point!
>
>
>Dwight Kilpatrick
>
>

Here ya go Dwight This is from the March issue of Treasure Map's
e-mail genealogy newsletter... Subscriptions are free.

-----------------------------------------------------
For our Canadian Subscribers:
Resources for Canada-URL Changes
-----------------------------------------------------
Note: We have had requests for Canadians information.
We are listening - here are some excellent sources:

From: John Holwell <>
Organization: Magi Data Consulting

Canadian Genealogy Resources:
Old URL: http://magi.com/~jholwell/gene.html
New URL:
http://infoweb.magi.com/~holwell/cangene/gene.html

Canadian Genealogy Resources - Text Only:
Old URL: http://magi.com/~jholwell/gene-txt.html
New URL:
http://infoweb.magi.com/~holwell/cangene/gene-txt.html

Genealogy in Newfoundland and Labrador:
Old URL: http://magi.com/~jholwell/nfrsh/index.html
New URL:
http://infoweb.magi.com/~holwell/nlrsh/index.html

Newfoundland and Labrador Genealogy Research Interests
Forum:
Old URL: http://magi.com/~jholwell/nfrsh/queries.html
New URL:
http://infoweb.magi.com/~holwell/nlgrif/nlgrif-1.html

Good luck - R. Ragan

=================================================
Visit - "Treasure Maps" the How-to Genealogy Web site
http://www.firstct.com/fv/tmaps.html
Subscribe to "Treasure Maps" free monthly e-mail Genealogy Newsletter
Published by: Future View - P. O. Box 551323
Jacksonville, Florida 32255-1323 --- voice mail: (904)725-9232

Robert Ragan <>
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 08:34:33 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Harold Helm <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Name the relationships -Elax married his son's wife's sisters

My ggfather was Elax CASEY.
He Married 1) Ida LUNSFORD
He Married 2) Rachael JOURNAGEN
He Married 3) Mattie FENIX
He Married 4) Effie FENIX

His son Will CASEY married Sarah FENIX (=my direct grandparents)

Mattie, Effie, and Sarah were sisters

What multiple relationships obtain from the next 2 generation
descendants* of Mattie Fenix CASEY, Effie Fenix CASEY, and Sarah
Fenix CASEY

-please tell me the *relationship to each sister and to each other?

For example how do you describe me as grandson of Sarah in relation
to Mattie and Effie? A grand nephew - also a step greatgrandnephew??
(except I am not step I am blood line to both generations).
Ida LUNSFORD was my biological ggmother via Elax CASEY

Elax married his son's wife's sisters #3 and #4 marriages.

Thanks for your help!

Harold


X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 08:36:02 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: anne Hood <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Need first contact, cold call letter samples for surname list

In a message dated 96-03-22 23:54:52 EST, you write:
>
>Would any of you kind folks who have had some success in getting
>replies to first time contact letters, be willing to share the
>wording of the letters with us?

When I send a genealogy Letter, I make a 'genealogy letterhead'. In
word perfect I define my letter as two newspaper columns, the left
columm being narrow, and the right being wide. In a small bold font,
I list each name I am working on double spaced down the left, and
change my font back to normal, and carriage return to the top of the
next column, and save the document. When I start a genealogy letter,
I pull up the letterhead document, and start from there. I have had
real good luck with people spotting names that I wasn't asking about.

As Always,
Anne


X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 08:40:09 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: anne Hood <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: 1890s Olympic Winners?

If you find out anything that doesn't go to the full group, would you
let me know?

Mu maiden name was Doub. Many years ago, my parents had a call from
the Dearborn Michigan Police saying they had found an Olymic medal
with the name Doub on it on the person of a burgalry suspect, and
they needed to find the owner to prove it was stolen. It wasn't ours
and we never heard back from them, but I always wondered if I had an
Olympic medalist for a cousin.

[ This is an example of why it's a good idea to post information
about general resources in public, and why good summaries are
wonderful ... -Mod ]

As Always,
Anne


X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 08:41:44 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Christine Jensen <>
Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services
Subject: Re: Records Management

I have FTM, Eudora, but I don't have Win95. The way I do it in
windows 3.1: in FTM I go to the beginning of a surname line in the
family group sheet then click on outline. Then I go to "Edit" and
click on "copy", I exit the program and go to the program I want to
put the information in such as a word processing program or Eudora.
If Eudora, I open the "message to" and go to "Edit" and "paste" it in
the message area. I can then move, change or delete anything there.
I don't know if this is what you had in mind, but I hope it helps.
Christine Jensen


wrote:
>I have Dayna's permission to quote from her e-mail. She wrote:
> I have over 10 surnames I'd like to submit to your list but
> I don't have time to sit and type these charts up in different
> formats for inquiries. What is the BEST way to do this????
> To help you answer my question, I have Windows 95, WP6.1, FTM
> and Eudora programs on my computer.

------- End of Forwarded Message

(Christine Jensen)
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 08:44:25 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Alan Rosenfield <>
Organization: The Greater Columbus FreeNet
Subject: Re: 1890s Olympic Winners?

the World almanac gives the names of all Olympic Winners, but no
additional info about them.
--
Al Rosenfield
1650 Ridgway Pl., Columbus OH 43212 USA
phone: 614/486-8892; fax: 614/481-8038
e-mail <>
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 08:46:42 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Gordon Johnson <>
Organization: KinHelp: Scottish Genealogical Consultant
Subject: Re: Is it worth sending a letter to an Irish or Scotish Newspaper

(Michael Burnett) wrote:

>In Baxter's "How to find your British and Irish roots"
>he suggests sending a letter to the local daily or weekly
>newspaper in Ireland with information that you know about
>your ancestor and where he was from.

>Do you suppose it's worth bothering the newspaper people?
>What has been your experience with doing this? What will help
>me and what information should I give?

There are occasional letters making such enquiries in our local
daily paper in Aberdeen, Scotland. Most of them concern families
either within living memory or during last century, when many folk
might have records at home to consult.

Once you think in terms of further back, then the only people likely
to be able to help will already be enthusiasts and members of the
local family history society. In that case, it is best to join that
society and have access to their members' interests directory which
will prove much more profitable.

Aberdeen fhs pages can be accessed via my home page, if anyone
cares to take a look.

http://www.wintermute.co.uk/~kinman

I am right, therefore you must be wrong (is what you are probably
thinking)

(Gordon Johnson)
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 08:47:27 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "Charles W. Sullivan" <>
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Greensboro
Subject: Re: Leap year

Crawford - Judith () wrote:
: All genealogist are concerned with the calender. When is Leap year
: leaped over? I heard from several sources (I do not know how valid
: they were) that leap year only happens when the last two digits of
: the year are devisible by 4 which means that the year 2,000 will not
: be a Leap Year. Is this correct? If so, does this mean that the
: year 1,900 was not a Leap Year? Would this make a difference in
: figuring the day of the week before 1900? Please reply. This has
: never occured in my life time so I don't have a clue.

The rule for our present-day Gregorian calendar is that years evenly
divisible by 4 are leap years, except for years evenly divisible by
100 which are _not_ evenly divisible by 400.

The year 1900 is therefore _not_ a leap year but 2000 will be a leap
year. And yes, it does make a difference in figuring the day of the
week.

About half the people I've spoken to are confused about this, so you
are not alone.

Prior to adoption of the Gregorian calendar (in 1752 in the UK and
its colonies), the old Julian calendar used the rule that _all_ years
evenly divisible by 4 were leap years.

Regards,
Charles Sullivan

(Charles W. Sullivan)
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 08:52:19 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From:
Organization: Dave and Cathy BERNHARDT, Hudson MA U.S.A.
Subject: NYS Library internet resources: an update

Having just come back from a trip to the New York State Library, at
Empire State Plaza in Albany, NY, I am pleased to report several
recent additions to their on-line Internet resources.

**For NY researchers, these are going to be hot items!**

Newspapers: The NYSL's microfilm catalog of NY state newspapers is
now online.
It can be accessed by gopher to "unix2.nysed.gov".
Select "Full Text of Publications of the New York State
Library", then "New York State Newspapers on Microfilm
Available from the State Library".
The papers are arranged by county, thereunder by locality (place
of publication), and therein by title. The list is *NOT*
searchable (rather, you must scroll through it, or download
it). Each entry lists:
Name of newspaper and place of publication;
OCLC call number
Years that the paper is known to have been published
Full call-number citation of NYSL's microfilm
exact date-range of newspapers that are on NYSL's microfilm
(this includes details showing any gaps in their holdings).

State Census and City Directories: catalogs of the NYSL holdings of
both are available by FTP to "unix2.nysed.gov" (you must use ftp
or a webbrowser that supports ftp file transfers). These
documents are in ***WordPerfect*** file format, so not everyone
will be able to read them.

----
Old (previously discussed) resources:

"Excelsior", the NYSL's online library catalog, is accessible by telnet to
"nys1.nysed.gov".

Website: "http://www.nysl.nysed.gov";

----
/dave
==============================================================
* Dave (David) and Cathy (Mary Catherine CAMPBELL) BERNHARDT *
* Hudson, MA U.S.A. *
* members, New England Historic Genealogical Society, Boston *
* email to: *
==============================================================
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 08:49:19 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Cyndi Howells <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Tacoma-Pierce County Genealogical Society

Two weeks ago we put up a new web site for the Tacoma-Pierce County
Genealogical Society in Washington State, located at:

http://www.oz.net/~cyndihow/tpcgs.htm

There are three NEW features on the society's web site:
~~Family Line Research, A unique service of TPCGS
~~Pierce County, Washington Publications Available from TPCGS
~~Queries from TPCGS. Check for your surnames here! More queries
will be added soon....

If you have any research to do in the Tacoma-Pierce County area,
please stop by and take a look.

We'd also like to thank everyone who has visited our new web site.
We've received so many nice messages and a lot of enthusiastic
support. If you haven't had a chance to visit our site, please visit
and let us know what you think! I've added about 300 new sites to
the list in the last two weeks.

Mark and Cyndi's Family Tree
http://www.oz.net/~cyndihow/

The many resources include:
~~a categorized list with over 1,330 links to genealogy Internet sites
~~Civil War research articles
~~UK research articles
~~Genealogy Terms and Phrases
~~A new page for the Tacoma-Pierce County Genealogical Society

Thanks again!
Cyndi
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~ Genealogist Researching:
Cyndi Howells ~~~ Cartwright, Dougherty,
819 11th St. NW ~~~ Frederick, Ingle, Johnson,
Puyallup, WA 98371-4108 ~~~ Kenney, Knox, Nash,
~~~ Sanderlin, Thomas, Walterhouse
http://www.oz.net/~cyndihow/
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 08:54:23 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From:
Organization: Dave and Cathy BERNHARDT, Hudson MA U.S.A.
Subject: 1930 Federal Census' Population Schedules: only *partly* indexed!

Though the 1930 Federal Census' Population Schedules will not be made
public until the spring of 2002 (6 years away....), it is useful to
know what finding aides are available so that you can plan accordingly.
So, I recently exchanged email with the National Archives, on the
subject of "What kinds of indexes are available for the 1930 census?"

Constance Potter replied with the following information:
(quote)
"Only the following states are Soundexed for 1930: Alabama, Arkansas,
Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, South
Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia. Parts of Kentucky and West
Virignia are also Soundexed."
(unquote)

I have *no* clue as to why only the south/south-east is indexed, but
this will come as a shock to many researchers who are expecting the
1930 census to be a windfall like the 1920 has been.

/dave
==============================================================
* Dave (David) and Cathy (Mary Catherine CAMPBELL) BERNHARDT *
* Hudson, MA U.S.A. *
* members, New England Historic Genealogical Society, Boston *
* email to: *
==============================================================
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 08:56:00 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From:
Organization: Dave and Cathy BERNHARDT, Hudson MA U.S.A.
Subject: Re: PA Birth Records-1900-Tioga&Warren Counties

In <4iurgm$>, writes:
:from "Ancestry's Redbook...":
: "Statewide registration of births and deaths has occurred since
: 1906...", and "...Births and deaths in Pennsylvania were also
: recorded in the county orphan's courts for the period 1893
: through 1895,

*** oops! the 1895 SHOULD BE **1905** ! ***

: as were delayed birth records for events occurring
: as far back as the 1860s. The state archives has films of some
: of these records...".

(oops! typos reign forever, don't they?)
/dave
==============================================================
* Dave (David) and Cathy (Mary Catherine CAMPBELL) BERNHARDT *
* Hudson, MA U.S.A. *
* members, New England Historic Genealogical Society, Boston *
* email to: *
==============================================================
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 09:02:01 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Gloria Mercer <>
Organization: Edmonton Freenet, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Subject: Re: Need first contact, cold call letter samples for surname list

chas7 () wrote:

: Would any of you kind folks who have had some success in getting
: replies to first time contact letters, be willing to share the
: wording of the letters with us?

: Charles Gersna

Here is a copy of a letter I wrote to one of my mother's cousins. I
had never met her before, but I thought "What the heck, the worst she
can say is 'No'". Well, at Christmas last year I got a card from her
saying that she and her daughter were working on it and would get
back to me soon. I am still waiting, but very hopeful.

I have changed the parts where I had names and just put in NAME to
protect the identities of the people involved.

" I would like to introduce myself. My name is NAME and I
am the youngest daughter of NAMES.
The reason I am writing to you is that I am currently working
on our family tree. Mom let me read the information that you sent
her with her Christmas card last year. Thank you for that information
but there was one fairly important piece of information missing -- the
name, birthdate, birthplace, etc. of the man that your daughter NAME
married.
Enclosed you will find a chart which I thought you might find
interesting. I have done up a DESCENDENT CHART from a computer
program called REUNION. This is a chart of all the direct descendents
of NAMES (RELATIONSHIP to both you and the person you are writing to).
This chart is yours to keep.
I am also including a report called a REGISTER REPORT -- again
using NAMES as the intial couple. This too is yours to keep. I thought
that this might give you some idea of what it is that I am looking for.
Anything that you would be willing to share with regards to stories,
newspaper clippings, pictures, etc. would be welcomed and very much
appreciated.
I am enclosing questionnaire sheets on quite a few of your
relatives (i.e. - parents, grandparents, siblings, children,
grandchildren, etc.) as well as a few blank questionnaire sheets. I
would like to ask you to take a look at these questionnaires, fill in
any of the missing or incorrect informtaion that you may have and
return them to me in the enclosed stamped, self-addressed envelope. I
realize this may sound like a lot of work but most of the important
information relates to names, dates and places. I have been working
on this family tree for about 4 years now and any additional
information that you could possibly give me would be most appreciated.
Thank you for your anticipated assistance in filling in a few
more branches of our family tree. If you have any questions, my
address and telephone number are on the bottom of the last page of
the Register Report. I would be more than willing to answer any
questions that you may have and to send you any information that I
may have that you would like.

Thank you again for your assistance in filling out the branches on
our tree."

Gloria Mercer

email:

http://www.lookup.com/Homepages/90975/home.html
http://www.edmnet.com:80/online/webpages/gloriam1.htm
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 09:31:28 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "Coralie J. Allen" <>
Organization: Minnesota Regional Network (MRNet)
Subject: Re: Leap year

Leap years occur every four years except when the year is an even
multiple of 100. Then they occur only on those century points where
the year is divisible by 400. 1900 was *not* a leap year. 2000 *is*
one.

--
Coralie Allen ()
-------------------------------------------------------------------
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 09:32:36 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Hal Beumer <>
Organization: CTS Network Services
Subject: Re: Records Management

wrote:

>One of the things I do in my spare time is manage the Roots Surname
>List, a database of nearly 90,000 surnames submitted by around 6,000
>submitters from all seven (yes, all seven) continents. (Send any
>message to for more information, or visit the
>Web Page at http://www.rand.org/personal/Genea/rslsearch.html) One
>of the participants, Dayna McMullen, recently asked me the following.
>I didn't have a good answer, but thought the good people here on
>soc.genealogy.methods might have some good ideas.

Use an FTP drop box.

Many Internet accounts provide you with your own drop box, often for
free. Ask you local Internet service provider.

(Hal Beumer)
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 10:04:35 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: anne Hood <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: old newspaper research

I called UMI Labs in Ann Arbor, and they sent me a catalog of all the
newspapers that they have available on microfilm to sell. Be
forewarned that some are very expensive, but on the other hand, some
are not.

As Always,
Anne


X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 10:07:36 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "J. Hugh Sullivan" <>
Organization: NetAmerica, Bowling Green, KY.
Subject: Re: Masonic records and genealogy

(Michael Burnett) wrote:

> As far as I was aware, The Masons were a secret Society.

I say again - Masons have no more secrets than my college fraternity.
Masons neither recruit nor seek publicity except perhaps Shriner
Burns/Crippled Children Hospitals.

>I have assumed that membership records were not kept.

Your assumption is incorrect. However, the records don't contain a
lot of info - mostly name, address and perhaps some record of lodge
participation.

>This is information from a relative, but I am intrigued by it. I
>suppose as a nominal Catholic I wouldn't be a favorite kin of his,
>if he were alive today :-)

Again untrue. The lodges in this area have a number of excellent
Catholic members. There is no reason why a Catholic becoming a Mason
will not also become a better Catholic. However, there is an ancient
Papal Bull which says you can't - it should be revoked.

>Does anyone say I should look into this information with the
>expectation that I might find info on him.

You might find a date, full name, address, etc. - but probably little
else.

Let's use e-mail if you are still intrigued.

Hugh

(J. Hugh Sullivan)
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 10:09:27 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: SueBakr <>
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Subject: Re: Records Management

I would suggest that Dayna use the capabilities within FTM to export
partial trees to get a GEDCOM that can be sent. Unfortunately, I'm too
new at this net stuff to know how it can be e-mailed to someone else.
Maybe someone else knows the answer?

Sue B


In article <4iunku$>, writes:
>
>I have Dayna's permission to quote from her e-mail. She wrote:
>
> I have over 10 surnames I'd like to submit to your list but
> I don't have time to sit and type these charts up in different
> formats for inquiries. What is the BEST way to do this????
> To help you answer my question, I have Windows 95, WP6.1, FTM
> and Eudora programs on my computer.

(SueBakr)
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 10:13:46 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Alan Rosenfield <>
Organization: The Greater Columbus FreeNet
Subject: Re: Records Management

I type documents in WP5.1 and save them as ascii files (CTRL-F5,
1,1). You are prompted to enter a file name for saving this DOS text.
I have loaded for e-mail all sorts of documents in this format with no
complaints. If WP5.1 receives such a text it will automatically
decode it when you call it up. Presumably WP6.1 works the same.

--
Al Rosenfield
1650 Ridgway Pl., Columbus OH 43212 USA
phone: 614/486-8892; fax: 614/481-8038
e-mail <>
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 12:57:35 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Barnet Sherman <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Embarrassing question

While I can't tell you how to find "county homes" in Pennsy., I can tell you
that your question isn't all that embarrassing. My relatives were deigned
likely to become public charges. We now have two living in Beverly Hills,
CA. Go figure...


X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 12:59:04 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Ron Fuller <>
Organization: Greater Detroit Free-Net
Subject: Re: Records Management

Dayna McMullen asks:

>I typed
>my descendant charts for my different surnames into WP6.1 for
>Windows and attached it to an e-mail message and then I got
>messages back that they were unable to read it (I told them
>beforehand that it was WP6.1 for Windows). My FTM program
>has too many other surnames and info to send that to them.

the problem seems to be that you are sending a binary file via
an ascii medium. that or the person on the other end has no
program that will read wp6.1fw files. try highlighting the data
on your wp document and copying it directly to the mail editor.
that or save the wp document in ascii format.

--
\@/@\@/@\@/@\@/@\@/@\@/@\@/@\@/@\@/@\@/@\@/@\@/@\@/@\@/@\@/@\@/
ron fuller \@/@\@/@\@/@\@/@\@/@\
\@/@\ If you seek peace, choose the path of forgiveness \@/@\
/@\@/ If you seach joy, choose the path of servanthood /@\@/
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:00:06 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Tammy Lamb <>
Organization: ProLog - PenTeleData, Inc.
Subject: Edwardsville, Pa named after who?

A while back someone wrote me looking for the person's name that Edwardsville
Pa was named after. My system crashed and I lost your address. SO I am posting
it here in hopes that you will see it. It you do please drop; me a message and
let me know. The person's name is:
Honorable Daniel Edwards
1825-1901

Tammy Lamb
http://home.ptd.net/~tamlamb

(Tammy Lamb)
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:04:55 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "Russell I. Haley" <>
Organization: CIS 75540, 2700
Subject: German Nobility problem

Can anyone tell me where I might look for some authoritative
information on Prince Frederick of
Schleswig-Holstein-Sondenburg-Augusterburg. He renounced his
claim on the, by then, not-existent throne of the Duchies on 31
MAR 1852, took the name of one of his estates, Noer, and in 1864
married Mary Esther Lee. I'm hoping to clear up his relationship
to Frederick VII, King of Denmark from 1848-1863. Also anything
on Mary Esther Lee (1838-1914), Princess of Noer and afterwards
the Countess von Waldersee, would also be of great interest. I
know that she was one of four daughters of a New York merchant
all of whom, with their widowed mother, went to Europe in the
middle of the last century and never returned to the US. Two of
the daughters married into the German nobility. Suggestions on
sources, especially anything that might give reasons for the
emigration of the Lee family to Europe, would be especially
welcome.

--
Researching CALVERT, HALEY, HOLMES, ROGERS, SHAW

"Russell I. Haley" <>
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:06:14 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Linda Gunzl <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: 1850s Black Genealogy Methods?

There is a site collecting slave and master information email address
. AOL also has a forum on this. Short of that I do
know there are published books in Maryland of Slave owners, perhaps there are
some from you area. Its a lot of work but you may have to search each slave
owner. My ancestors were slave owners, and list their slaves in their wills.
I have taken the time to contribute this information to the above email
address, in hopes that it may help others.
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:07:12 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Michael Wright <>
Organization: GetNet, International, Inc.
Subject: Re: Fireproof Microfilm Storage Source?

In article <4iur03$> (Rich Lowe) writes:
>From: (Rich Lowe)
>Subject: Fireproof Microfilm Storage Source?
>Date: 22 Mar 1996 10:19:47 -0800

>Our local Genealogical group has an opportunity to get a significant
>number of rolls of duplicate microfilm involving our county records.
>This, however, is on the condition that we purchase a fire-proof
>microfilm storage file cabinet.

>Our current cabinet is 9 drawer but not fireproof. Does anyone have
>an idea what such a cabinet would run costwise and could you point
>us to a source (reasonable one of course)? We may have to pass if
>the cost is prohibitive.

Check with any large office supply company, you can probably use a common
insulated media safe or media file (rated 1 hour 125 degrees).

(Michael Wright)
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:02:12 -0800
Reply-To: Lois Moon <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Lois Moon <>
Organization: The Victoria Freenet Association (VIFA), Victoria, B.C., Canada
Subject: Sumner SC

In what county is Sumner, SC?

Is there a death index for SC online?

Appreciate any help I can get.

Lois

--
L. E. Moon
E. Jett __
\/

X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:08:52 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Mark Faucette <>
Organization: Atlanta Macintosh Users Group
Subject: Re: Leap Year

On 3/23/96 at 3:58 PM, Methods and resources for wrote:

Marf> According to the Genealogical calendar 1753-2000, effective when the
Marf> Gregorian Calendar was adopted by England and its colonies, and
Marf> published by the National Genealogical Society, Arlington, VA, the
Marf> years 1800, 1900 amd 2000 are not leap years. On non-leap years the
Marf> following year starts one day later on the calendar day of the week
Marf> than the year before except the year following leap year starts two
Marf> calendar days later. For example: this January 1 started on a Monday
Marf> and last year (1995) started on a Sunday. But next year is a year
Marf> following a leap year and January 1st will be on a Wednesday.
Marf> Perhaps with will help Judith C. with her query.

Leap years were introduced with the Gregorian calendar to compensate for the
fact that the actual length of time of one revolution of the Earth around the
Sun is not 365 days, but about 365.25 days. So, every four years, we add a
day. However, it was later discovered that this adds too many days to the
calendar---three days too many every four hundred years.

The solution arrived at was this: If the year is divisible by four, it's a
leap year, unless the year is divisible by one hundred. If a year is
divisible by 100 and *not* 400, then it is *not* a leap year. This deletes
three leap days every four hundred years. However, if the year is divisible
by 400, it *is* a leap year.

So, perhaps someone should write to the National Genealogical Society and
tell them that the year 2000 *is* a leap year after all!

- via BulkRate 2.0


X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:10:27 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Seanette Blaylock <>
Organization: The Catalina BBS
Subject: Leap Year

I'm amazed by what Leonard said about Leap year:
> All genealogist are concerned with the calender. When is Leap year
> leaped over? I heard from several sources (I do not know how valid
> they were) that leap year only happens when the last two digits of
> the year are devisible by 4 which means that the year 2,000 will not
> be a Leap Year. Is this correct? If so, does this mean that the
> year 1,900 was not a Leap Year? Would this make a difference in
> figuring the day of the week before 1900? Please reply. This has
> never occured in my life time so I don't have a clue.
LC> I'd love to know how many responses you get. Here's mine.
LC> Leap years are any year evenly divisible by four; centuries must be
LC> evenly divisable by 500. So, 1900, not divisible by 500 but
LC> divisible by four was NOT at leap year. 2000, divisible by 500 and 4
LC> is a leap year. And sometime in the future even one of the years
LC> divisible by 500 has to be dropped, but we aren't going to be around
LC> to see it so I'm not worried.

Er, don't you mean 400 instead of 500? (No flame intended.)
Seanette
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--
+-Internet:
+-Fidonet: Seanette Blaylock 1:206/2711
+-If you agree with the opinions expressed in this message, they are that
| of the originator, and if you do not, they are someone else's opinions.
+-The Catalina BBS InterNet <-> FidoNet Gateway
| Public Access for Fido Boards and Users! e-mail:
+-World Wide Web Space starting $10/month! e-mail:
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:12:17 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Barney Tyrwhitt-Drake <>
Organization: Bucks Genealogical Society
Subject: Re: Leap year

In article <4iv0uf$>, Crawford - Judith
<> writes
>
>All genealogist are concerned with the calender. When is Leap year
>leaped over? I heard from several sources (I do not know how valid
>they were) that leap year only happens when the last two digits of
>the year are devisible by 4 which means that the year 2,000 will not
>be a Leap Year. Is this correct? If so, does this mean that the
>year 1,900 was not a Leap Year? Would this make a difference in
>figuring the day of the week before 1900? Please reply. This has
>never occured in my life time so I don't have a clue.
>
The answer to your questions depends on which calendar is being used. In
North America and Europe today we use the Gregorian calendar, introduced
by Pope Gregory XIII in 1582. The Gregorian calendar calls for every
year divisible by 4 with no remainder to be a leap year
(1988,1992,1996...). An exception is made for years ending in 00. These
are not leap years unless they are divisible by 400 without a remainder.
Thus 2000 and 2400 will be leap years while 1800 and 1900 were not.

Before the Gregorian calendar the Julian calendar was in use. This
called for a leap year every 4 years regardless. Britain and its
colonies (including America) changed from the Julian to the Gregorian
calendar after 2 September 1752.
--
Barney Tyrwhitt-Drake

Barney Tyrwhitt-Drake <>
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:13:04 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Brian Pears <>
Organization: None
Subject: Re: Leap year

In article: <4iv0uf$> Crawford - Judith
<> writes:

> All genealogist are concerned with the calender. When is Leap year
> leaped over? I heard from several sources (I do not know how valid
> they were) that leap year only happens when the last two digits of
> the year are devisible by 4 which means that the year 2,000 will not
> be a Leap Year. Is this correct? If so, does this mean that the
> year 1,900 was not a Leap Year? Would this make a difference in
> figuring the day of the week before 1900? Please reply. This has
> never occured in my life time so I don't have a clue.

Judith

Under the now reduntant Julian calendar there was a leap year *every*
four years, including *every* century year.

The now almost universal Gregorian calendar made a minor adjustment
whereby century years are only leap years if the *first* two digits
are divisible by 4.

Hence 1900 was not a leap year but 2000 *will be* a leap year.

The rule of thumb is therefore that a year is a leap year:

a) For years other than century years: If the last two figures divide by 4.
b) For century years: If the first two figures divide by 4.

Of course this does have an effect on day of the week calculations, but
unless you are a mathematician I would suggest that you use a perpetual
calendar rather than attempt calendar calculations of any sort. There are
many perpetual calendars in printed form and most genealogical programs
incorporate calendar functions too. Alternatively you you use an on-line
perpetual calendar such as that at http://midas.ac.uk/genuki/big/easter/
which will currently give you a calendar and the date of easter for any
year 1753-2052 (I hope to extend this back to 1500 soon). This calendar
is applicable to Britain and its colonies - but not necessarily anywhere
else - as it assumes a change from the Julian to Gregorian calendar in
1753.
--
Brian Pears
Gateshead, UK
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:11:07 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Paulgron <>
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Subject: Re: Records Management

In article <4j1mi3$>, writes:

>What you DON'T want to do, if you can avoid it, is to keep two
>databases having the "same" information, or to retype your data.
>Both methods will tend to develop errors and discrepancies, and you
>might not even be able to easily determine which is correct when you
>notice that they disagree.

This is the best advice you will receive in a long time.
Almost anyone with a career in systems design and development will
tell you that identical databases is an oxymoron.

Paul Groneman Georgetown, Texas
Save the armadillo - don't drive. :>)

(Paulgron)
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:14:43 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Richard Pence <>
Organization: Net 109 Fidonet <-> Internet Gateway
Subject: 1890s Olympic Winners?

i> From: (Deborah C. Breton)

i> Am looking for info on how to research past Olympic winners. A
i> newly found cousin (not on-line) has info that an ancestor may
i> have been an 1890s Olympic winner but does not know how to check
i> it out ... neither do I! Can anyone help?

Debbie: Sports seems to be one area that doesn't lack documentation. There's an
"encyclopedia" for almost any area, so I would guess there is a reference for
the Olympics. Check the reference area in your library. I don't have a World
Almanac handy, but I think there is a section on Olympic winners - it may be
just the winners in some sports and maybe only the last games.

(Richard Pence)
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:17:42 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Richard Pence <>
Organization: Net 109 Fidonet <-> Internet Gateway
Subject: Re: Meaning of Signs?

a> From: (A Brignall)

a> (Richard Pence) writes:
|>
|> I am looking for any kind of clue or source of information that may
|> help me determine the meaning of the "signs" in the following list of
|> children.

a> My guess is that the signs given may be the Rising Sign or Ascendant
a> for each person, which is, I think, the sign on the horizon at the
a> moment of birth. You can check this in any good astrology book.
a> Some astrologers believe that the Ascendant is more important than
a> the Sun Sign, which is the sign that the sun is in at the time of
a> the birth, and is what newspaper horoscopes refer to. So if you
a> knew how to do the calculations (try some astrology software?) you
a> should be able to work out what time of day (within a couple of
a> hours) the people were born, assuming that the signs you have were
a> accurately calculated.

Aside from "the person who wrote the signs was badly confused," the
"ascendancy" theory is a leading contender.

a> Hope this helps,

It does.

(Richard Pence)
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:07:01 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Audrey Andrus <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Embarrassing question

Mary Ann,
I found out my dad's grandmother died in the Beltrami County "poor
farm" in Minnesota. My dad didn't know that or didn't admit it. Her death
certificate told me. In fact the dr. was there visiting another patient and
happened to discover my g grandmother dead in her bed.
Later I was looking at a list of WPA (Works Projects Adm - 1840's)
records from the LDS Family History Library Catalog and it said the records
were in some attic in the courthouse. Well, a paid researcher, for not too
many $, found them in the State Historical Society in ST. Paul, MN. I
probably could have written. The records told me; date received, name, age,
residence, condition (disease - "Heart"), where born, date born, date death,
remarks - "left blank" - in my case. A finding guide at the His Soc. said
some records are at the North Central Minnesota Historical center in Bemidji
- which I need to write to! Thanks for asking your question.
So - I would suggest looking through the county, state records of
the area in PA that you are interested in in the LDS Catalog, and/or writing
to historical societies.
Good Luck!

At 12:42 PM 23-03-96 -0800, you wrote:
>I have never seen sources listed for the kind of information I need.
>It's not the high point in anyone's family history, so that may help
>to explain it. Here's my problem.
>
>My grandparents put my g-grandfather in what family members call "the
>county home" and/or "the poor house." He died there, and no one knows
>when, or where he is buried. In fact, two different people have told
>me two different (but adjacent) county names. I do have a probable
>name for my g-grandfather and a possible range of years for his
>residence in the home. Can some one point me in the right direction
>to identify and then contact "county homes" and "county poor houses"
>of the 1920s and 1930s in PA?
>
>Thanks.
>Mary Anne Waltz
>
>Mary Anne Waltz <>
>
Audrey E. Connelly Andrus
814 E. 8800 S.
Spanish Fork, UT 84660
(801)423-2699 or 423-3474

Researching family names; Andrus/Andros, Berry/Barry, Connelly/Conley,
Edwards, Falconer, Fowler & Johnson - Brothertown Indians, Gilkerson, Hall,
Hannah/Hanna, Kellogg, Perkins, Nichol(Nichols).
***
"The Chief Cause of Failure and Unhappiness is Trading What You Want Most
for What You Want at the Moment" - quote from ?(please tell me if you know)

Audrey Andrus <>
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:23:56 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Richard Pence <>
Organization: Net 109 Fidonet <-> Internet Gateway
Subject: First Participant's Post To New Newsgroup

w> From:

w> Good! A newsgroup devoted (I trust) to guiding amateur and
w> professional genealogists in their searches for generational roots
w> and family ties. Here are a few questions to get things started:

Ah, well, this is not exactly new ...

w> 1.) Where are the best sources for researching surnames?
w> Online:

w> Offline:

The answer to those questions is: What surname? When? Where?

w> 2.) How does one find the "root" of a family surname?

You library will have several books on this topic.

w> 3.) How does one go about using the services of the LDS (Church of
w> Latter Day Saints)? Are fees attached or donations requested for the
w> services of the LDS? If using the LDS for research, is there a format
w> to requesting data?

Visit a Family History Center near you. This can be located by looking in the
white pages of your phone book under "Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day
Saints." Under that, look for "Family History Center." Call ahead for hours, as
they vary.

Most FHCs have on CD-ROM disks what is called FamilySearch. The date in it
includes the International Genealogical Index, the card catalog for the Family
History Library in Salt Lake City, the Ancestral file (a collection of linked
family trees submitted by members and others), plus other assorted databases,
such as the Social Security Death Index. Films in the Family History Library
Library can be borrowed through the FHCs.

No fees or donations are requested. There is a small fee for borrowing
microfilm through a local Family History Center (about $4).

w> This is a simple list, the beginning of what is hoped to be a lengthy
w> and informative thread.

More than a year ago, a series of "on-line classes" was conducted in this
newsgroup. Each of your above questions was discussed in detail in these.
The moderator just a couple or three weeks ago posted a list of these and the
address where they can be found; since there has been a site change, I'm not
sure if that address is still valid. As an example of what you can find, there
was one whole "class" on using the LDS resources.

[ No, the files are still available from . I'll
post the list and instructions again shortly. -- Mod ]
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:13:59 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Richard Pence <>
Organization: Net 109 Fidonet <-> Internet Gateway
Subject: Re: Meaning of Signs?

M> From:

M> On 3/16/96 at 1:33 PM, Methods and resources for wrote:

Marf> I am looking for any kind of clue or source of information that may
Marf> help me determine the meaning of the "signs" in the following list of
Marf> children.

M> It looks to me like they're signs of the zodiac.

That much was stated in the message. The question was, what is the relevance of
the signs because they do not match the normal dates associated with the zodiac
signs.

(Richard Pence)
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:35:02 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Cheryl Singhal <>
Organization: Net 109 Fidonet <-> Internet Gateway
Subject: Re: old newspaper resear

DM>From: (Dave McKissock)

DM>What about the "etc." part of Erik's question (Erik asked "I was
DM>hoping to find more info through obituaries, etc.")?

DM>For example, maybe you know
DM>the birth/death/marriage places and dates of an ancestor,
DM>but you want to know something about
DM>the ancestor's life. In the ideal world, I'd be able to go to an
DM>index that lists all articles in the Rochester NY newspapers that
DM>mention my great grandfather Robert Adams Gowans McKissock, hopefully
DM>to find articles about how Robert won an award at the county fair in
DM>18xx for the juciest tomato in Monroe county (or whatever).

DM>Can I only dream about such indexes, and the only real world solution
DM>is to sit down and read all of the daily newspapers from my great
DM>grandfather's birth to death in Rochester, looking for interesting
DM>articles?

Yes. Very very few newspapers are indexed to that detail even today.
To create such an index for a century's worth of newspapers would take
YEARS, have an extremely limited market, and be generally a labor of
love.

Why? Because a century ago, and even 50 years ago, small town
newspapers were FILLED with this kind of information. As an experiment,
take the Lifestyles section of your local newspaper (usually 8 or fewer
pages long) and type in each name mentioned in it. Now imagine doing
that for 51 more issues.

* OLX 2.1 TD *
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:41:13 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "R. Carritte" <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Regional National Archives Branches

In a message dated 96-03-23 00:49:12 EST, Molly Kernan <>
Asked: "... might I find a pension file for an ancestor who fought in the
Civil
War and died in the Midwest" in a Regional Branch of the National Archives?

To the best of my knowledge, most of the Civil War service records and
pension files have not been microfilmed. These files are housed at the
National Archives in Washington DC. However, indices to these files have
been published on microfilm. Your Regional Archive should have a copy or
could get access to them.


X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:44:18 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: James Edwards <>
Organization: Voyager Information Networks, Inc.
Subject: Re: Broderbund Announces--World Family Tree Submitter Information
Service

responding to your message on people using "family tree dics" and saving
hundreds of hours searching courthouses, etc. I am a newbee at this and
do not understand what is and where you get "family tree discs"

JIm Edwards

X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:34:13 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Cheryl Singhal <>
Organization: Net 109 Fidonet <-> Internet Gateway
Subject: Re: SavvySearch Catches

MI>From: (Mike Long)

MI>Malcolm Goddard () wrote:

MI>: You should try AltaVista seacrh facility, it is generally faster
MI>: and much more powerful than Savvy Search

MI>That is assuming that AltaVista and Savvy Search are both searching
MI>the same database. Then you must define what you mean by "more
MI>powerful." In general, genealogists are looking for 100% recall in
MI>their online searches. This means that all of the relevant
MI>documents in the system being searched are found. This is rarely
MI>achievable in any system I am aware of.

Doesn't one's definition of relevant also come into play here?
F'instance ... "Civil War" means different wars in different countries.
If you're hunting info on the British Civil War, you're not going to
consider 4000 refs to the US Civil War or 1500 ref to the Spanish Civil
War "relevant."

Also, of course, the cataloguer has to do her job properly (ALL the
cataloguers I've known were female, although I assume there must be
males doing it too). If the Cataloguer cross-refs "War Between the
States", "US War of the Rebellion" and "War of Northern Aggression" to
"US Civil War", but does NOT cross-ref US Civil War to all the others,
then which term you pick for your search *may* limit your results.

Likewise, searches of databases from India for "Sepoy Rebellion" are
going to be negative, because THEY call it "First War for Independence."

MI>In general, one gets better performance by carefully formulating
MI>the search strategy and familiarity with the particular search

A-MEN! Of course, the more you know, the more convoluted your
reasoning gets which may in and of itself cause problems ...

MI>One question one should always ask before searching for anything
MI>is "Who would most likely have this type of information?" The
MI>most "powerful" search engine is of no use if the information isn't
MI>in the database in the first place.

All too true.

* OLX 2.1 TD *
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:33:02 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "Deborah C. Breton" <>
Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University
Subject: Re: 1890s Olympic Winners?

(Deborah C. Breton) writes:

>Hi!

>Am looking for info on how to research past Olympic winners. A
>newly found cousin (not on-line) has info that an ancestor may
>have been an 1890s Olympic winner but does not know how to check
>it out ... neither do I! Can anyone help?

>Many thanks

>Debbie Breton
>
>Midlothian VA

Many thanks to everyone who has sent replies with info on 1896 US
Olympic winners!

Debbie Breton

(Deborah C. Breton)
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:35:43 -0800
Reply-To: GFS Linda <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: GFS Linda <>
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Subject: Re: Embarrassing question

MaryAnne,
Check the state death indexes. If you obtain a death certificate, the
place of death or the residence of the deceased at the time of death
should be listed.
L
GFS Linda, Co-leader Scot and Irish SIG, AOL Genealogy Forum. "If all the
world were genealogists, there would be no wars! No one would take a
chance on the records being burned!"

(GFS Linda)
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:36:36 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: SueBakr <>
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Subject: Proper annotation for twins ?

I posted this to soc.genealogy.misc, but thought that I may get a
different perspective here......

Having now computerized all my family group sheets, I realized that I
don't have a clear indication on the sheets that individual A is the twin
to individual B (except where I have pencilled it in). I have read
through the latest GEDCOM standard that I can find on the net and no
where does it address how to record multiple births or TWINs.

So, my question is: How should it be done?

I have the capability to create a new fact type -- I am using Family
Origins for Windows 4.1a. But I know that this may NOT import properly
into some of the other available software -- for example FTM for windows
V3. (I've got that too and have tried with some other items that I'm
interested in tracking.) It seems that any new facts that I've created
do get appropriately exported to the GEDCOM file, but generally are not
imported. I only have these 2 packages to "play" with. But I do want to
be able to share my research with others, in GEDCOM form when appropriate.
I also don't want someone to get my data and go off on a wild goose
chase looking for the birth date of one of the twins when it's right
there in front of them!

Thanks for any ideas!

Sue

X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 12:55:56 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From:
Organization: Continuum Communications Inc.
Subject: Italian Gazeteer

I recently heard the the Italian Gazeteer is a great resource in
locating the small villages & towns of Italy. I understand it is
available on microfilm at FHC centers. Does anyone know if this is
available as a hard copy still? It was published ~1963. I have not
seen it yet at Historical libraries.

Thanks for the help.
Cindy


X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 12:56:43 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Johnson <>
Organization: Frugal Internet - Public access in Sumner, WA
Subject: Maiden Name Format?

I'm somewhat new to genealogy and entering info into a genealogy
computer program. I am wondering how to handle maiden names when
entering someones name. Should I use their married name and put the
maiden name in parentheses behind (that is what I've started to do) or
just put the maiden name.

As a broader question, how important is format to keeping genealogical
records. I imagine there are standards (for names, dates, places,
documentation, etc.). What are those standards and how closely do
genealogists hold to those?

Thanks for your help,
Kevin Johnson ()

Beginning list of surnames: Ackeret, Hegge, Hull, Huseby, Johnson, Waide
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 16:07:34 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Barbara Williams <>
Organization: University of Washington
Subject: Re: Regional National Archives Branches

On 22 Mar 1996, Molly P Kernan wrote:

> There is a Regional National Archives Branch Office in Seattle,
> which is about a 4-hour drive from my home. Can I expect to find
> the same files at the Regional Branch as I would find in Washington
> DC, or would the files be more regional in nature? For example,
> might I find a pension file for an ancestor who fought in the Civil
> War and died in the Midwest?

I live in Seattle and go to the Regional Archives (on Sand Point Way)
about once a month. They have some national archives (National Census
Data) and a LOT of Northwest information. My family is from Wisconsin, so
the only thing I have found to be useful are the National Census films and
the 1895 Wisconsin STATE census (which they happen to have).

Listed below is a partial list of items that are available at the Seattle
Regional Archives (taken from their brochure) that might be of interest to
you:

Hope this information helps.
Barbara Williams
----
Searching: Laszewski, Kostuch, Repinski, Stroik, Daczyk, Augustiniak.
----
Microfilms at the Pacific Northwest Archives:

M123 Schedules enumerating Union Veterans and WIdows of Union Veterans of
the Civil war.

T288 General Index to Pension Files, 1861-1934

T289 Organization Indes to Penion FIles, 1861-1900

T252 The Matthew B Brady Collection of Civil War Photographs 1861-1865.

M1765 Index to Pension Application files of Remarried Widows .. after the
Civil War.

Barbara Williams <>
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 16:45:07 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "" <>
Organization: Delphi Internet Services Corporation
Subject: Re: Embarrassing question

I don't have an answer as to where you can get this information in PA,
but if it is like the situation in NY they are run by the county government,
as the name implies. I would suggest visiting or writing the county seat
in the 2 possible counties. I'm sure they will direct you to people who
can give you the information you need.

Having a relative in a county home is no embarrassment, necessarily. People
still go to those institions to live out their last days even today. They
may be senile or somewhat sickly, and certainly not able to look after
themselves. Apparently your grandparents felt they were unable, for what-
ever reason, to take him in. If the home he went to was anything like
the one in my home county in NY, his days there were probably quite
pleasant. Wait until you find out the facts before you waste your
time being embarrassed.

Good luck in your search.
Sally Henry

()
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 16:50:52 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Grace Lobello <>
Organization: Fidonet: Dynasty BBS * Elk Grove, CA (916)686-6946
Subject: Meaning of Signs

[ This does seem to help with the original question, but further discussions
in this thread probably belong on alt.astrology. -- Mod ]

I've seen a couple messages that concerned the meaning of signs associated
with the birth of children. I did not see the original message(s) that
led to this thread, so I don't know exactly what the question was.
However, the responses I noticed offered advice in the arena of astrology.

I am an amateur astrologer and can provide explicit explanations in this
subject area to anyone who is interested. Will try to keep my responses
short and to the point. One response seemed to be regarding the Rising
sign.

When an astrologer first analyzes a subject, they use the time, date and
place of birth along with specialized software or hand-calculated
mathematical formulas to create a "photograph" of the positions of the
planets of this solar system in relation to the earth at that exact
moment in time. The Sun sign is the sign in which the Sun falls in the
"birth chart." This represents the self, the ego, the true person within.
The Rising Sign (or Ascendant) is determined specifically by the TIME of
birth and is the cusp of the "First House" that is superimposed over the
signs of the birth chart. The Rising sign is the mask we wear when we
interact with the world around us, the mask that protects our inner self
from harm. This is inclined to be deceptive to persons with only a
superficial knowledge of astrology, because two persons may know that
they have the same sun sign, but they act and react totally differently
from one another, and this is the direct result of their different rising
signs, for starters. The Moon sign is our emotional self and how we
interact with others emotionally. Together, these three signs are
designated our "astrological signature," a way of identifying us, like
a snapshot, to others "in the know."

As an example, this is MY signature:
Leo sun, Sagittarius Rising, Cancer moon.

My son is:
Aquarius sun, Libra Rising, Aries moon.

My beloved is:
Aquarius sun, Taurus Rising, Sagittarius moon.

In traditional astrology, it is maintained that opposites attract, but
equally that opposites conflict. Leo and Aquarius are polar opposite
signs. However, Leo-Sagittarius-Aries is a trine relation of fire signs
and the presence of these compatible signs in the signatures of the two
SOs ((S)ignificant (O)thers) in my life serves to temper the potential
conflicts between Leo and Aquarius.

*** Perform random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ***

Grace Lobello


... Go straight to the docs. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200!
--
: Fidonet: Grace Lobello 1:203/10 .. speaking for only myself.
: Internet:
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 16:52:14 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: David Kauffman <>
Organization: Concentric Internet Services
Subject: Re: old newspaper research

Mishy () wrote:

: Most newspapers years ago had "society news" of the day, which
: said who was visiting in town, who was on vacation visiting relatives,
: etc. It can be a wealth of information, but only if your family gets
: mentioned (likely if they were prominent in town - such as merchants,
: not too likely if they were farmers).
: They are exciting to read just to get a flavor of what was going
: on at the time, and giving you an idea of how an ancestor lived.
:
Of course, it must be pointed out that the size of the town will have
an impact on the likehood of your family being mentioned. For the
larger cities, the above is certainly true. However, with a small town
newspaper, the chances of being mentioned are greatly improved.

For example, my mother lived in a small town in the high desert of
California for awhile in the 1970s. They published a small newspaper
once or twice a week, and *any* information about *any* resident was
welcome, and published regularly.

So, this would be just one case of where your ancestors living in a
small town may actually be a benefit to those of us who are looking
for information on our ancestors.

--
###################################################################
"Remember, no matter where you go, there you are." - B.B.
"We were there, at the dawn of the Third Age of Mankind." - jms
Go, Rams! Opportunity+Action=Success
"Hey, Tagliabue, Ram this!!" St. Louis: Gateway to the East
Climbing my Family Tree: Kauffman*Knese*LaPlante*Graef*Oliver*Vens*
*Lance*Fahle*Langelier*Walz*Young*Schmidt*Monette*Leriger*Cloutier*
Home Page: http://www.cris.com/~cyberdad/
###################################################################
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 16:53:51 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "Carol J. Botteron" <>
Organization: file folders
Subject: Re: Deceased Social Security #

In article <4iv0ll$> (Richard Pence) writes:
|
| From:
|
| One writes a letter to the Freedom of Information Officer, SSA,
| Baltimore MD 21235, encloses a printout of the SSDI entry and a check
| for $7, and asks for a copy of the SSA-5.

Is an actual printout of the SSDI entry necessary, or will the
information in it (SSN, etc.) be sufficient?
Would just the name and SSN be enough?

aTdHvAaNnKcSe! Carol Botteron
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 16:55:26 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "<Richard Ashby>" <>
Organization: PSI Public Usenet Link
Subject: Immigration Info-Eng to Can to US 1863-90

Hi folks:
Need help on following problem:

Grandfather, John Ashby, immigated to Canada from England in 1863.
He also immigrated to Lockport, NY from Canada around 1890s. My
father, John William, born 1894 in Lockport returned to Canada
with his father in 1896.

Question: What information is provided on immigration documents
during this period? If helpful, where would I obtain cys for my
families immigration from England, Canada, NY and back to Canada?

Any pointers would be appreciated. Thanks.

Richard Ashby, Nashville, TN
e-mail:
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 16:56:56 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Sue Phillips <>
Organization: University of Texas at Austin General Libraries
Subject: Citing Electronic Sources

Richard Lackey's book "Cite Your Sources" has been mentioned in this group
as a good source for citing genealogical sources. Since that book was
written in 1980, it does not give any guidance in citing electronic
sources that are now being found on web pages, in Usenet groups, and in
email messages.

I have found two sources that are helpful in this regard. The first is
World Wide Words by Michael Quinion. It lists gives suggested styles and
also lists ten other style pages. The address is:

http://clever.net/quinion/words/citation.htm

My personal choice as a style guide is the Style Sheet from the University
of California Berkeley Teaching Library Internet Workshops. The address
is:

http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/TeachingLib/Guides/Internet/MLAStyleSheet.html

--
Sue Phillips
Associate Director for Technical Services, General Libraries
University of Texas at Austin Austin, Texas 78713
Phone: 512 / 495-4350 Fax: 512 / 495-4347

(Sue Phillips)
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 16:58:27 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Ray Revette <>
Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
Subject: Re: Indian Territory (Oklahoma)

On 23 Mar 1996 12:18:53 -0800, (Catherine Stiles)
wrote:

>
>I have researched quite a bit in Oklahoma, however it has been
>several years and the details have blurred in my mind. I know it
>gets complicated and frustrating because the records are so
>fragmented. One thing that makes is hard is that the Indian tribal
>records are kept separately (I have never gotten into them). What I
>was researching was "white" settlers living in Indian Territory.
>Also since the records prior to 1907 were Federal they don't follow
>the normal county patterns.
>
>CENSUS RECORDS. The earliest census which included Oklahoma is
>the 1860 census of Arkansas which included what was then Indian
>Territory. The census does not list Indians but covers free and slave
>inhabitants in the Cherokee, Choctaw, Creek, and Seminole nations.
>No 1880 census for Oklahoma. Of course 1890 Federas census was
>destroyed but there are schedules of Civil War veterans and widows
>for Oklahoma. There was an 1890 territorial census taken in the
>counties that existed then. The 1900 federal census has separate
>schedules for Indian Territory and for Oklahoma Territory. There is a
>microfilm soundex for the 1900 census.
>
>SMITH'S DIRECTORY (Oklahoma, 1890) lists names and addresses of
>people living in the Oklahoma Territory in 1890.
>
>MARRIAGES: Prior to statehood (1907), marriages of white
>citizens, in that part of the state known as Indian Territory, were
>recorded in the various Recording Districts of the United States
>Federal Court. Believe these are on microfilm. Also, there have been
>some compilations done.
>
>There are even some immigration records included in the Federal
>Court records--there were a lot of foreign born people who came to
>Oklahoma (mostly for mining).

Search for American State Papers. I found the Choctaw Indian
information in Vol 7. I ordered 7 rolls and obtained 5 rolls. Two [2]
could not be circulated...??? The indexes will help you find what you
want/need.
>
>Most of these records are available at the LDS libraries on microfilm.
>You have to search a lot (and creatively), to find them in the
>catalog, though. I can't remember just how they are indexed, but
>believe you have to go into the "Federal" or "Indian" sections to
>find them. The 1900 census is indexed in a separate index, not with
>Oklahoma.

There are MANY rolls of film avaliable. Send for a list of rolls
available. CompuServe has a Zip file [Indian.zip] in the geneaogy
library that unzips into 8 pages [Indfilm] listing the various rolls.
the price range is $10.00 & $23.00. Many of these films can be
borrowed on interlibrary loan.
>
>You also might want to write to the Oklahoma Historical Society,
>Historical Building, Oklahoma City, OK 73105 and see what
>information they can give you. They don't do interlibrary loans, but
>you can buy some microfilms from them (I know for sure that they
>have microfilm of newspapers for sale).
>
>Might be good if you find a history of that time and read it. Will
>make the record keeping easier to understand.
>
>Good luck. Cathy (Catherine Stiles )
>
Hope this helps...

_Please Make NOTE if Applicable_
Address change effective 1 Apr 1996
Old Address
New Address
_BOTH addresses are GOOD til then_
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 17:02:14 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Merritt Mullen <>
Organization: Retired
Subject: Re: Leap Year

In article <4j1omd$> , writes:

>the years 1800, 1900 and 2000 are not leap years.

Not quite. Unlike 1800 and 1900, 2000 IS a leap year. Just one of the
ways to finetune the adjustment to keep the seasons and the calender in
sync. By the way, there was a "leap second" added to the clock at the
end of 1995 (you probably didn't even notice!).

Merritt Mullen <>
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 17:03:03 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Colette Steele <>
Organization: The Internet Ramp
Subject: ?Unmarried couple's child

How do you record the mate of an illegitimate child? Do you still put the
name in the same place as a spouse and just don't list a marriage date or
what?


X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 17:08:24 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Steve Hutchings <>
Organization: enterprise plc
Subject: Re: 1890s Olympic Winners?

>Am looking for info on how to research past Olympic winners. A
>newly found cousin (not on-line) has info that an ancestor may
>have been an 1890s Olympic winner but does not know how to check
>it out

Given that the modern Olympics didn't start until 1896 and the first
few events were fairly small, it shouldn't be too difficult.

The book you need is called (I think) The Complete Book of the
Olympics by David Wallechinsky (spelling)? Sorry this is a bit vague
but I can't find my copy. This book is generally regarded as the
definitive book on the Olympics.

Failing that, a copy of the Sports Ilustrated Sports Almanac (the 1995
version that I have is ISBN 0-316-80860-1) lists winners only for the
main events.

If you give me a name I'll see if I can spot it.

Regards, Steve Hutchings

Interested in any HUTCHINGS
STURMINSTER NEWTON, DORSET>>KENT (possibly via Croydon, London and /or
Eastbourne>>PORTSMOUTH AREA
Definite link to Canada (mainly B.C.), possibly from Kent
Tentative link to Yorkshire (Sheffield or Derby area, died in a
mining accident?)

(Steve Hutchings)
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 17:09:49 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Greg Maxfield <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Maiden Name Format?

In a message dated 96-03-24 17:42:12 EST, Kevin Johnson wrote:

>I'm somewhat new to genealogy and entering info into a genealogy
>computer program. I am wondering how to handle maiden names when
>entering someones name. Should I use their married name and put the
>maiden name in parentheses behind (that is what I've started to do) or
>just put the maiden name.

Use just the maiden names. Gets way too confusing when their are mulitple
marriages, etc, later in life. Also serves to remind what the parents would
have been known as. All of the computer programs record data in this way.

>As a broader question, how important is format to keeping genealogical
>records. I imagine there are standards (for names, dates, places,
>documentation, etc.). What are those standards and how closely do
>genealogists hold to those?

The most important thing about standards is recognizing that eventually other
people are going to want to know what you have recorded. Using standard
formats helps to insure that accuracy and understanding is maintained.

Dates I record as: DAY MONTH YEAR ie. 20 Aug 1961. ALWAYS write out
all four digits of the year (is. 1961 not '61). Someday it is going to be a
new centruy and people are going to wonder what you were talking about.
Months can be abbreviated to three letters.

Places are recorded from smallest jurisdiction to largest. For example, in
the U.S. a place might be recorded as: Beaver, Iron Co., UT. If the event
has an even smaller jurisdiction, include it also. Example of a burial:
Mountainview Cemetery, Beaver, Iron, UT. It is not necessary to add country
for U.S. or Canada, though you can.

For documentation, I have a group of standard tags that identify the data I
am talking about. For example, in the notes for Greg Maxfield I may have tags
for BIRTH, DEATH, MARR, etc. They might look like this.

Sources
BIRTH: Birth certificate in possesion of Leroy Maxfield, PO Box 465, Castle
Dale, UT.
MARR: Beaver County Marriages, Book 1, pg. 23.
DEATH: Headstone marker, Mountainview Cemetery, Beaver, UT.

You can use as many or as few tags as you desire, just make sure that they
are easily understandable. Some others are: BURIAL, WILL, CENSUS, JOB,
CHRISTENING, ....well you get the idea. Also, I use the same tags and add
notes to each individual when necessary. For example:

Notes
MARRIAGE: Eloped to Milford, Utah. Parents disapproved and would not allow
them bcak to family occassions.
DEATH: Headstone records death date as 23 FEB 1981, death certificate confims
as 23 MAR 1981.

Please, please, please attempt to document all the work that you do. The work
that you do is so valuable and good that it would be sad if that research had
to be continually redone by new genealogists. Looking at your documentation,
they can get a good idea of how much value to place on your work. Without
documentation, they pretty much have to assume that all of your information
either is or can be incorrect.

You also need to invent or adopt a system of recording what research you have
done. I cannot tell you how many times I have gone back to a microfilm, book
or letter only to remember that I had looked there 2 or 3 or 5 years before.
You might think that you will remember, but believe me you won't.

These are simple things to do, shouldn't cause you much grief to institue
them in your own research, but you will find that they are immensely valuable
later on.

Greg


X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:20:37 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Richard Pence <>
Organization: Net 109 Fidonet <-> Internet Gateway
Subject: Re: Leap year

j> From: Crawford - Judith <>

j> All genealogist are concerned with the calender. When is Leap year
j> leaped over? I heard from several sources (I do not know how valid
j> they were) that leap year only happens when the last two digits of
j> the year are devisible by 4 which means that the year 2,000 will not
j> be a Leap Year. Is this correct? If so, does this mean that the
j> year 1,900 was not a Leap Year? Would this make a difference in
j> figuring the day of the week before 1900? Please reply. This has
j> never occured in my life time so I don't have a clue.

The rules for figuring out if a year is a leap year:

1. It IS a leap year if it is divisible by 4, except ...
2. It is NOT a leap year if it is a "century year," i.e., divisible by 100,
except ...
3. It IS a leap year if it is divisible by 400.

Thus the year 1900 was NOT a leap year (divisible by 100 but not 400), but the
year 2000 will be a leap year (divisble by 400). And, yes, it would make a
difference in figuring out the day of the week.

Your "last two digits" rule works except for years like 1200, 1600, 2000.
Save this little program:

10 rem LEAP.BAS - Gregorian calendar leap year routine
20 input "Enter year:";year
30 febdays=28
40 If year/4=int(year/4) then febdays=29
50 if year/100=int(year/100) then febdays=28
60 if year/400=int(year/400) then febdays=29
70 if febdays=29 then A$="is" else A$="is not"
80 print "The year";year;A$;" a leap year and February has";febdays;"days."

You might also want to find a copy of GENKIT, version 2.nn. Among many other
things, it will tell you the day of the week for any date in U.S. or Canada
back to 1752 (Gregorian calander adopted by Brittan and colonies that year).

(Richard Pence)
X-Message:
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 17:38:40 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "Charles W. Sullivan" <>
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Greensboro
Subject: Re: Leap year

[ OK, I think we've covered this topic pretty thoroughly - unless you
have some new insight that no one has mentioned, I'll be returning
subsequent posts about Leap Year instead of approving them -- Mod ]

Leonard Campbell () wrote:
<Leap year query deleted>
: I'd love to know how many responses you get. Here's mine.

: Leap years are any year evenly divisible by four; centuries must be
: evenly divisable by 500. So, 1900, not divisible by 500 but
: divisible by four was NOT at leap year. 2000, divisible by 500 and 4
: is a leap year. And sometime in the future even one of the years
: divisible by 500 has to be dropped, but we aren't going to be around
: to see it so I'm not worried.

Close, but no cigar! The magic number is 400, not 500.

Regards,
Charles Sullivan

(Charles W. Sullivan)
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 05:55:58 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "R. Leutner" <>
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Subject: Re: Maiden Name Format?

I have been into and out of working on family history several times in the
past 30-odd years, and have found that "formats" for presenting
genealogical information are nearly as numerous as there are genealogists.
HOWEVER: in assembling my own records I keep coming back to the basic
rule that has also guided my academic writing, which is simply to take as
your model what you understand to be pretty much the "industry standard"
in your field, and modify it to your own needs, but then BE CONSISTENT.
Consistency in format is not simply a matter of tidiness, but also
important to intelligibility to other readers. I am not doing genealogy
for publication, so haven't paid much attention to any fine points of
format or "style sheet" issues, but I guess if I were to point to a
current model of clear presentation, it would be The American Genealogist.

If you are using a genealogical software program, of course, your format
will pretty much be dictated by its rules and either your problem will
be solved or you will become unhappy enough to jettison your
specialized program and switch to a general-purpose word processor. I
have done the latter, mostly because most of what I am doing these days
is gathering a large amount of very miscellaneous data from lots of
different sources, and the genealogical software I had (BK) was just too
specialized to be of real use in pulling together raw notes into usable
one- or two-page summaries. I'm sure that by the time I get around to
trying to produce any snazzy product, any current software will be
antique anyway!

Bob Leutner
Iowa City IA

On 24 Mar 1996, Johnson wrote:

>
> I'm somewhat new to genealogy and entering info into a genealogy
> computer program. I am wondering how to handle maiden names when
> entering someones name. Should I use their married name and put the
> maiden name in parentheses behind (that is what I've started to do) or
> just put the maiden name.
>
> As a broader question, how important is format to keeping genealogical
> records. I imagine there are standards (for names, dates, places,
> documentation, etc.). What are those standards and how closely do
> genealogists hold to those?
>
> Thanks for your help,
> Kevin Johnson ()
>
> Beginning list of surnames: Ackeret, Hegge, Hull, Huseby, Johnson, Waide
>
>
>
>
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 05:56:40 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "R. Leutner" <>
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Subject: Re: Embarrassing question -Don't Be

It might be added to this thread that the "poor farms" are still with us;
they're just called "nursing homes" and are effectively Federally funded
now, rather than by the county. One difference, of course, is that you
don't necessarily go in poor; you just wind up that way. Whether this is
an improvement on the way our ancestors did it I guess is a matter of
opinion. It is presumably only a matter of time, though, before
nursing-home records start looking like data for genealogists.

On 24 Mar 1996 wrote:

>
> Don't be embarrased by the term "Poor House".
>
> I was raised by my grandfather, born 1864, in McKean County, PA.
>
> The "Poor Farm" as my grandfather told me was for folks that
> were left alone. The off spring and extended family did not live
> in the area; so the local folks took care of them. There was
> a great sense of being a good neighbor in those days. My
> grandfather visited many of his old friends at the "poor farm".
> I hope this will help clarify the term.
>
>
>
>
>
>
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 05:58:06 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: chas7 <>
Organization: Gateway to Internet Services
Subject: Re: old newspaper research

Dream no more Dave....your index is alive and well in Cleveland. Give
it a try and then at the bottom of the search engine page, click on
the catalog of the library.
The search index is for the Cleveland Plain Dealer. Type in a surname
and get both obits and news items as you suggest. or try a subject.

http://www-catalog.cpl.org/clenix

Watch the input. ..that is a hyphen after www.

Best regards
Charles Gersna


(Dave McKissock) wrote:
>Can I only dream about such indexes, and the only real world solution
>is to sit down and read all of the daily newspapers from my great
>grandfather's birth to death in Rochester, looking for interesting
>articles?
>
><<<<<<<<<<<<<< NASA Lewis Research Center >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Dave McKissock
>Aerospace Engineer
>
>
>
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 05:59:02 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Cyndi Howells <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: MARYLAND ROOTS---Is there a group?

Fri, 22 Mar 1996 22:06:48 -0800, M. K. Perry wrote:
>Is there a group for Maryland Roots like there is for Virginia and
>Kentucky? Anyone who knows will you please post it to this list?
>Thanks.

>M.K. Perry

>

There is a great list of newsgroups and mailing lists called Vicki's Home
Page located at: http://www.eskimo.com/~chance/

>From there I found the following:

CAPITOL-ROOTS, is a discussion list for genealogical and historical research
in New Jersey,
Maryland, Delaware, and the District of Columbia. To subscribe, send the
following text to


SUB CAPITOL-ROOTS

Good Luck!
Cyndi
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~ Genealogist Researching:
Cyndi Howells ~~~ Cartwright, Dougherty,
819 11th St. NW ~~~ Frederick, Ingle, Johnson,
Puyallup, WA 98371-4108 ~~~ Kenney, Knox, Nash,
~~~ Sanderlin, Thomas, Walterhouse
http://www.oz.net/~cyndihow/
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 05:59:37 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: JoAnn Gemmrig <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Immigration Info-Eng to Can to US 1863-90

At 04:55 PM 3/24/96 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi folks:
>Need help on following problem:
>
>Grandfather, John Ashby, immigated to Canada from England in 1863.
>He also immigrated to Lockport, NY from Canada around 1890s. My
>father, John William, born 1894 in Lockport returned to Canada
>with his father in 1896.
>
>Question: What information is provided on immigration documents
>during this period? If helpful, where would I obtain cys for my
>families immigration from England, Canada, NY and back to Canada?
>
>Any pointers would be appreciated. Thanks.
>
>Richard Ashby, Nashville, TN
>e-mail:

Have your checked the Canadian border crossing records. Available
on film through FHCs.

JoAnn

JoAnn Gemmrig <>
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 06:00:24 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Cheryl Wray <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Protocol

>I have been fortunate enough to have received a couple of files from
>other researchers on one of my lines. My question is this: All I
>received is the information..no documentation along with it. Do I now
>have to prove all of this as well or can I keep it as it is and still
>consider it valid? Also, how do I handle this new information if I
>want to pass it along to others? I want to make sure I give credit
>where it is due, I also don't want to give away unverified information.
>I'm really confused as to dealing with this. One of the files is
>literally several hundreds of names. Any response is appreciated. :)
>
>Kimm
>
> (Kimm )

In my opinion, you do need proof. Just because you see the names and dates
written down doesn't make them true. Everything should be verified, and
the verification should have been passed along to you along with the names,
dates, and places. I think you should feel free to ask the researchers
what sources they used to each name and date. If they can't provide this,
maybe they could suggest to you some sources by which you yourself can get
the proof--primary sources, preferably. If you don't verify everything, but
want to pass the information along to others, I think you should specify
how and from whom you got the information and that you cannot personally
vouch for its reliability because you haven't seen the proof yourself.

Cheryl

(Cheryl Wray)
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 06:01:55 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Richard Pence <>
Organization: Net 109 Fidonet <-> Internet Gateway
Subject: Re: Name the relationship

t> From: (Hank Matty)

t> (Richard Pence) writes:

>My e-mail to Phil said: "Second cousins."

>However, I added that since the same relationship exists through
>both parents, some would call them "double second cousins."

t> Sorry to disagree. Second cousins share descent from one of the four
t> greatgrandparent pairs each has. David Jr and James are triple
t> second cousins, since each of them has only one pair of
t> greatgrandparents not common in their descents.

You are correct. My incorrect answer stemmed from not reading the problem
closely. I have difficulty with these things without "drawing a picture," so:

parent
+----------------------------------------------+
Mary Hannah Deborah
+-----------+ | |
Elizabeth Joseph David Dorothy
| | | |
+----------->--------------+ |
| | |
| +--------------------------------+
David Jr. James

If you toss out all the "red herrings" (secondary relationships), it is easy to
see that David Jr. and James are the children of siblings and, therefore, first
cousins.

Mary
+--------------------------------+
Elizabeth = David Joseph = Dorothy
| |
David Jr. James

t> Since I began this thread by posting the puzzle of my Jacob sisters
t> ancestry, most of the comments were returned to me by E-mail (unless
t> I missed posts while the list was shut down recently), and many
t> proffered multiple relationships as an answer. Commonly, the
t> subjects were described as "first cousins and....". However, the
t> fact is that triple third cousins, as a term, makes redundant any
t> reference to the subjects as first cousins, since that is included in
t> the term as a necessity.

The puzzle was a good one and has the earmarks of "How Old Is Ann?" (which you
can find in your Bartlett's).

(Richard Pence)
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 06:03:40 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Richard Pence <>
Organization: Net 109 Fidonet <-> Internet Gateway
Subject: Protocol

c> From: (Kimm )

c> I have been fortunate enough to have received a couple of files from
c> other researchers on one of my lines. My question is this: All I
c> received is the information..no documentation along with it. Do I now
c> have to prove all of this as well or can I keep it as it is and still
c> consider it valid?

I think the message I posted a bit ago applies: You now have a starting point
to research these families. It is NOT the end! The rea answer to your question
usually lies in what you think about the validity of the data and, as
importantly, what do you intend to do with it. But since you stated there was
no documentation, then I would start looking for the documentation, using the
names, dates and places as clues.

c> Also, how do I handle this new information if I
c> want to pass it along to others? I want to make sure I give credit
c> where it is due, I also don't want to give away unverified information.
c> I'm really confused as to dealing with this. One of the files is
c> literally several hundreds of names. Any response is appreciated. :)

Look at the problem this way: Suppose you are publishing what you hope will be
a worthy genealogy. We all get information such as you have described and it is
not always possible to verify the information with original records. Yet, it
would serve no real purpose to ignore the information. How would you cite it?

I am in the process of compiling a rather hefty genealogy on the PENCE family
and have encountered these situations. Here's a typical situation and my
"solution" to it:

In the 1960s I received a letter from a lady in California who was a Pence
descendant. She included rather sketchy information on the family of her
grandfather (largely just the names of the children) and recalled that as a
child she had seen the family Bible of her "Uncle Theodore" Pence and that it
contained the names of all of her grandfather's children. In the 1980s, I
received a letter from another member of this family which contained the birth
and death date of the grandfather and a list of all the children with their
birth dates. No source was given, so I wrote back and asked where the
information was obtained. The reponse stated that the information was from the
family Bible of Theodore Pence and that the Bible was in the possession of a
cousin, then living in Laramie, Wyo. My citation on this will be both a
"source" and an "explanation":

'The birthdates of Emanuel, his wife and their children were copied from the
family Bible of his son, Theodore, and sent to the author in a letter dated -
000 198- by ----- -----, a great granddaughter of Emanuel. At that time the
Bible was in the possession of her second cousin, ----- ----, (address),
Laramie, Wyo. This family was located in the 1850, 1860 and 1870 censuses of
Martinsville Twp., Clark County, Ill., and the names and ages are consistent
with the Bible record." [The full census citations are given in a preceeding
note.]

Maybe "close" is only good enough in grenades and horshoes, but I am satisfied
with this information. Further, with two or three thousand names (985 through
five generations, plus the names and birth dates for all the children in Ihe
sixth generation), I think it would be impossible for me to document every
birthdate; at some point you need to rely on family members for information,
especially in more recent generations.

I suppose one could begin the arduous task of trying to find additional
documentation (notably death certificates) for each of these children, but that
seems to me to be a bit of "overkill." However, with the data provided for this
family and the above (and other) reference, a person directly descended from
this family would have the tools to undertake a more thorough search.

IOW - when you pass on information, do try to tell the next person where you
got it.

(Richard Pence)
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 06:04:54 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Richard Pence <>
Organization: Net 109 Fidonet <-> Internet Gateway
Subject: Re: Broderbund Announces--World Family Tree Submitter Information
Servi

g> From: (Tom Graham)

g> I have found hundreds of family members using the Family Tree Disks.
g> The information on these disks has saved me countless hours of
g> research in libraries and court houses and provided leads to other
g> information. They are well worth the money.

Tom, and others:

I agree wholeheartedly that such disks can shortcut your research efforts.
However, and I'm sure this is your feeling also, I would caution everyone that
finding a marriage record, a census listing or a family GEDCOM on one of these
CDs is NOT the end of the search. The census and marriage records are notably
flawed and error-ridden. The information in "World Family Tree" disks varies
widely in its quality. Some of it may be excellent; some of it is probably
worthless. In either case, it still requires follow-up work.

We all know that we need to view published genealogists with a skeptical eye.
Electronic commenications has, in effect, made it possible for _anyone_ to
"publish" his or her "genealogy." There are a lot of people who will
unwittingly grab a GEDCOM from the Ancestral File, a World Family Tree Disk or
someone's web site, plop it on top of their genealogical database and say,
"Well, that's done. I got that line back to Adam!" It _ain't_ done, folks. It
may give you a running start - and save you from a lot of dead-end searches -
but it is just that: a start. The nitty-gritty work in the court houses is
still there. The advantage is that we _may_ know _which_ court house!

I truly hope that the participants in this newsgroup will keep firmly reminding
those who jump on the 'Net and ask for the address of "the LDS so I can get a
copy of my family tree" (an actual quote from another group) that this is a
pipe dream.

There are some wonderful sources of information available in digitized form.
But, for the most part, these are merely "pointers." The follow-up work still
must be done.

And I know you knew that. I just want to make sure you tell those who don't
know it. <G>

(Richard Pence)
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 06:06:04 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Richard Pence <>
Organization: Net 109 Fidonet <-> Internet Gateway
Subject: Leap Year

I realize this is decidedly against the rules and we are supposed to take turns
guessing <G>, but I got nervous about my previous answer, so I <gasp!> looked
up "Leap Year." in the Enc. Brit.

It confirmed my earlier message containing these rules:

Leap years are all those divisible by 4 except years ending in 00, which are
not leap years. The exception is that years divisible by 400 are leap years.

It said 1600 and 2000 are leap years.

[However, even encyclopedias can be wrong. I've sent one of the kids out for a
fresh copy of the World Almanac, which I recall has an extensive section on
calendars and leap years. (My CD almanac appears to be silent on leap year.)]

If the above is true, then the NGS 1753-2000 calendar, quoted in an earlier
message, is incorrect if it says 2000 in NOT a leap year.

There is a "calendar site" somewhere on the net that people have been sending
me information from and those really serious about the year 3000 may want to
check this out!

(Richard Pence)
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 06:06:44 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Carl Parow <>
Organization: NetSpace Online Systems
Subject: Re: ?Unmarried couple's child

In article <4j4rc5$>, wrote:

> How do you record the mate of an illegitimate child? Do you still put the
> name in the same place as a spouse and just don't list a marriage date or
> what?

I would enter the name in the place of the spouse and obviously there
would be no marraige date. The program I use (Reunion) provides for the
entry to be either, Married, Unmarried, Common Law, Separated, Divorced or
Annulled which may appear on the family card.

Carl.

(Carl Parow)
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 06:08:24 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Lesley Robertson <>
Organization: Delft University of Technology
Subject: Re: 1850s Black Genealogy Methods?

wrote:
>
>There is a site collecting slave and master information email address
>. AOL also has a forum on this. Short of that I do
>know there are published books in Maryland of Slave owners, perhaps there are
>some from you area. Its a lot of work but you may have to search each slave
>owner. My ancestors were slave owners, and list their slaves in their wills.
> I have taken the time to contribute this information to the above email
>address, in hopes that it may help others.
>
>

Is this groups for american slaves, only? I'm looking or a source of
information on slaves in the Cape Colony (now S.Africa) in the late 17th
and early 18th century.
Lesley Robertson

Lesley Robertson <>
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 06:21:24 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: dick <>
Organization: bgs.com
Subject: Re: Records Management

Like Karen, I tend to retype things. This is because each query
is different and may require different information on collateral
lines from my database. That being said, I have considered
keeping a "plain text" copy of my ancestor list (with some dates
and places) and of descendant lists of some of the key ancestors.
This would speed the output on the most central parts of my data.

When I say "plain text" above, I mean extended ASCII. Really this
is the ISO character set 8859-1. It contains all the Western
European diacritical marks and is used in UNIX and Windows systems.
I can easily convert these into DOS text for people who can't
handle ISO. I would NOT use a word processor format. These are
too likely to fail in translation. Either people won't have any
word processor or they won't be equipped to handle the one that
you use. (For instance, I did not install the WordPerfect
converters with my Word for Windows in order to save precious disk
space).

If you really prefer to keep these reports in word processor format,
then be prepared to ask first what format the correspondent can
handle and convert to that at your end.

Dick

Karen Isaacson <> wrote:
[ Next three paragraphs are from Dayna McMullen. Karen's remarks are
in the final paragraph. -- Mod ]

> I read your FAQ info this morning and my question was not
> addressed there so here goes.... How do I keep my family
> information so it's ready to send out when someone sees it
> on your list and requests that I send it to them? I typed
> my descendant charts for my different surnames into WP6.1 for
> Windows and attached it to an e-mail message and then I got
> messages back that they were unable to read it (I told them
> beforehand that it was WP6.1 for Windows). My FTM program
> has too many other surnames and info to send that to them.
>
> I have over 10 surnames I'd like to submit to your list but
> I don't have time to sit and type these charts up in different
> formats for inquiries. What is the BEST way to do this????
> To help you answer my question, I have Windows 95, WP6.1, FTM
> and Eudora programs on my computer.
>
> I'm obviously new at this. I requested info from someone on
> your list in November and they evidently had the same problem.
> She sent me 25 pages of stuff I couldn't use. She ended up
> typing new stuff into her mail program and sending it in a
> message.
>
>This problem must come up in other contexts, such as for GENSERV
>participants, WFT participants, people who post lots of queries
>to soc.genealogy.surnames, etc. How =3Ddoes=3D one cope? Me, I
>retype a lot of stuff, but that's partly because I haven't read
>it for so long that I enjoy doing so. That and I may be a glutton
>for punishment ;-) That, and I sometimes take months to answer
>queries. (Oops.)
>

-- =

Dick Schoeller, BGS Systems, 128 Technology Center, Waltham, MA 02254-9111
617.891.0000 mailto: http://www.geopages.com/SiliconValley/2241=
/
"Er ist ein Narr, der meint, es sei nicht schad, das Kind auszusch=FCtten m=
it
dem Bad" - Thomas Murner 1512
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 06:27:37 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Richard Pence <>
Organization: Net 109 Fidonet <-> Internet Gateway
Subject: Re: Leap year

s> From:

s> I'd love to know how many responses you get. Here's mine.

s> Leap years are any year evenly divisible by four; centuries must be
s> evenly divisable by 500. So, 1900, not divisible by 500 but
s> divisible by four was NOT at leap year. 2000, divisible by 500 and 4
s> is a leap year. And sometime in the future even one of the years
s> divisible by 500 has to be dropped, but we aren't going to be around
s> to see it so I'm not worried.

Len:

I believe the correct divisor is _400_.

See my previous message, but the short version is:

Any year divisible by four is a leap year _unless_ is is a "century year"
(divisible by 100), then it is _not_ a leap year. Exception: Century years
divisible by 400 _are_ leap years.

This formula should handle things until about 3000!

P.S.: TO ALL: In my previous message I wrote that 2000 _is_ a leap year. I have
a nagging feeling that I have made a mistake on that and there is yet another
wxception to the divisible by 400 rule: If it is divisible by 1000, it is not a
leap year. Unfotunately, the kids have either pilfered or hidden my almanac.
I'll get verification and repost if there is a correction. (As the original
poster noted, these exceptions to "divisible by 4" don't happlen too often, so
our personal experience is lacking!)

(Richard Pence)
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 08:13:13 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "Marvin G. Beshirs" <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Maiden Name Format?

I put the maiden name into my program and people can look at who they
married. I have had some people that were married numerous times. Which
married name would I use? Using the maiden name takes all the guess
work out.

--May God be with you and yours. Don't criticize me too loudly until
Marvin Beshirs (:> you have walked a mile in my shoes!
Pine Ridge Road Forsyth 65653
e-mail at Between Springfield and Branson MO

On Sun, 24 Mar 1996, Johnson wrote:

> I'm somewhat new to genealogy and entering info into a genealogy
> computer program. I am wondering how to handle maiden names when
> entering someones name. Should I use their married name and put the
> maiden name in parentheses behind (that is what I've started to do) or
> just put the maiden name.
>

"Marvin G. Beshirs" <>
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 08:13:52 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Wes Jester <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: ?Unmarried couple's child

In the areas where I have encountered this, I record the name of the
Father and Mother and leave the marraige information blank. I attach
a note describing this as a "Common Law" marriage.

Wes

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: ?Unmarried couple's child
Author: at ORL-SMTP-G
Date: 96/3/24 8:03 PM

How do you record the mate of an illegitimate child? Do you still put the
name in the same place as a spouse and just don't list a marriage date or
what?


X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 08:08:01 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Catherine Carlyon <>
Organization: mojo
Subject: Re: Easter, date of????

The Book of Common Prayer (1662) of the Church of England contains not
only the rule about the 1st Sunday after the full moon which happens
upon or after the 21st of March but also gives several tables on how to
find/calculate Easter Day. Hope this is of help.

In article <4iurk8$>, John Obrien
<> writes
>
>Tom Lincoln () wrote:
>: >>jon ackroyd wrote:
>: >>> Could somebody please explain how the sliding date of Easter is
>: >>> determined? What date ranges could this encompass?
>: >
>: >I had been told that Easter Sunday MUST fall on the first Sunday after the
>: >first full moon past March 19. I have yet to be wrong using this rule.
>: >
>
>I've always been of the understanding that Easter is (formula
>follows) The first Sunday After the first full moon after the
>Vernal equinox. So the above formula is close, but the vernal
>equinox usually occurs on March 20th. The big variable is when
>the full moon happens. BTW, the formula, except for the Sunday
>part, is based on the Wiccan feast of (I think the name is)
>Samhain.

[snip]

--
Catherine Carlyon

Catherine Carlyon <>
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 08:20:56 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Wes Jester <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re[2]: Masonic records and genealogy

The records of the Masonic Lodge are not secret. In fact the only
"secrets" are the modes of recognition, much the same as any college
fraternity.

If you know the address of the Lodge, if it is still in existence,
write to the Secretary. If the records still exist, and in many cases
they do, he will provide with a coppy of the Brothers petition to
enter the Lodge, and any Masonic history there might be. This would
be any offices he held or special awards for service to the community
or the Lodge.

While these records do not contain a vast amount of genealogical data,
they will give you your ancestor full name, his place of residence at
the time, his occupation at the time and maybe, one or two other
details. This is good family history stuff and may lead to another
area of research if the trail has grown cold.

If the Lodge no longer exists, you can write to the Grand Secreatary
of the Grand Lodge of your State. He will be than happy to help if he
can. In many cases, very old records may not be able to be located
very easily.

Information about Freemasonry can be found at the following URL

http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/www/Masons/Main-page.html

Good Luck and Good Hunting

Wes Jester
PM Composie Lodge No 293 F&AM
Prlando, FL

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Masonic records and genealogy
Author: at ORL-SMTP-G
Date: 96/3/23 4:22 PM

Can someone out there tell me how I can find out if 2 specific men
were Masons in a certain small town at the same time during a certain
time-period of the early 19th century? I do not know if records of
Masonic membership are kept or, if so, for how long and where. The
state would be West Virginia, Virginia during the time period of
interest. Please reply to my E-mail address:



[ As usual, please CC: to any replies which
might be of general interest. Tnx, Mod ]

Thanks. Joan Logan Brooks
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 12:14:14 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Paulgron <>
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Subject: Re: Maiden Name Format?

The approach I use which works for me is to always use
the maiden name when it is known. Your software will link the wife
and husband even though the surnames are different.

When I don't yet know the wife's maiden name, for example, when getting
data from a census, I use the husbands surname for the wife but I put it
in parentheses. This 1) tells me it's not her true surname and 2) when
searching the software's indexed list the surnames in parentheses sort
at the top of the list before capital A.

I don't know if there is a "standard" way for handling this. If there is,
would someone please post the standard or most generally accepted
method.
Paul Groneman

(Paulgron)
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 12:27:54 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Terry <>
Organization: The Carroll College InterNet News site
Subject: Re: Easter, date of????

[ snip ]

: In article <4iurk8$>, John Obrien
: <> writes

[ snip ]
: >
: >I've always been of the understanding that Easter is (formula
: >follows) The first Sunday After the first full moon after the
: >Vernal equinox. So the above formula is close, but the vernal
: >equinox usually occurs on March 20th. The big variable is when
: >the full moon happens. BTW, the formula, except for the Sunday
: >part, is based on the Wiccan feast of (I think the name is)
: >Samhain.

I understood Samhain to be the Celtic new year, which now occurs around
Halloween.

[ I think a discussion of ancient Celtic holidays, while interesting,
will be more relevant to soc.culture.celtic than to genealogy, so let's
move the thread there unless someone has a clear insight as to how
this can help in genealogy research, thanks. -- Mod ]

(Terry)
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 12:37:38 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Angela Walton <>
Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County
Subject: Re: 1850s Black Genealogy Methods?

On 25 Mar 1996, Lesley Robertson wrote:

>
> Is this groups for american slaves, only? I'm looking or a source of
> information on slaves in the Cape Colony (now S.Africa) in the late 17th
> and early 18th century.

Lesley,
On Afrigeneas, we are all African Ancestored genealogists. There
are many things that you can post. Many of our members have West Indian
origins, and all of us are seeking information on African as well as
AFrican American sources.

To subscribe, simply send email to Put
Subscribe in the subject and body of the letter.

-Angela-
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 12:43:00 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: John Wm Sloniker <>
Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever
Subject: Re: Regional National Archives Branches

On 22 Mar 1996, Molly P Kernan wrote:

> There is a Regional National Archives Branch Office in Seattle,
> which is about a 4-hour drive from my home. Can I expect to find
> the same files at the Regional Branch as I would find in Washington
> DC, or would the files be more regional in nature? For example,
> might I find a pension file for an ancestor who fought in the Civil
> War and died in the Midwest?
>
> Molly Kernan
>
>

The regional archives have all of the census records for all of the
states during any census year [ except 1890 :( ]

In addition they have other files that ARE regional.

John

*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*
# I have Ancestors, Aunts, Cousins, Uncles, Brothers, Sisters. #
# Some are very good, some are very bad, but they're all mine. #
# =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- #
# John Wm Sloniker <> Seattle, WA #
# (206) 789-6663 7323 - 19th Ave. NW 98117-5612 #
*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*====*
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 14:34:29 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Joel and Lynn GAzis-SAx <>
Organization: Alsirat Online Magazine
Subject: Re: Are there non-invasive methods for determining burial sites?

I've crossposted this to alt.society.funerary and set followups to
soc.genealogy.methods and alt.society.funerary.

There are quite a few geneaological organizations which maintain lists of
cemeteries in their region. Family plots present a different problem.

If you have web access, you can investigate some of the links at my own
page, City of the Silent. These are rated and annotated connections to
various cemetery sites throughout the world.

The URL is:

http://www.best.com/~gazissax/city.html

Regards,

Joel GAzis-SAx

In article <4j4rha$>,
(Scott) wrote:
>
>Some close relatives would like to find out the exact site where their
>grandmother is buried.
>
[ snip ]
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 18:44:11 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Tom Camfield <>
Organization: Internet for the Olympic Peninsula
Subject: Re: ?Unmarried couple's child

In article <4j4rc5$>, wrote:

> How do you record the mate of an illegitimate child? Do you still put the
> name in the same place as a spouse and just don't list a marriage date or
> what?

We who do not utilize genealogial software of any sort have an advantage
every now and again. :-) This illustrates it. I am not confined in any
way to someone else's arbitrary system.

My records are entirely in straight text, and I write in whatever I
please...wherever I want. In place of the stylized family history sheets
(or whatever they are), I just drop the occasional self-made chart into my
text. It's a great visual aid. And when it comes time to print the old
book, it's just a matter of running out the already-assembled
pages--margins, numbers, etc., all in place.
Amazing how beautifully it all works!

No; I have no trouble finding things. About eight floppies hold the entire
book presently in progress--some 470 pages so far. Contents are listed on
the disk labels. And I certainly have sufficient time to eject one disk and
insert another, when necessary.

Tom Camfield -
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 18:44:20 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Cheryl Singhal <>
Organization: Net 109 Fidonet <-> Internet Gateway
Subject: Re: Masonic records and

AN>From: (ANV 11VA)

AN> Can someone out there tell me how I can find out if 2 specific men
AN>were Masons in a certain small town at the same time during a certain
AN>time-period of the early 19th century? I do not know if records of
AN>Masonic membership are kept or, if so, for how long and where. The
AN>state would be West Virginia, Virginia during the time period of
AN>interest. Please reply to my E-mail address:

AN>

AN>[ As usual, please CC: to any replies which
AN> might be of general interest. Tnx, Mod ]

Since I can't cc using the gateway (or, if I can I haven't figured out
how?), I figure it'll be easier to post here and hope ANV sees it?

VA and WV Masonic records ... the Grand Lodge of Virginia (In Richmond)
was very helpful in my request. I can hardly hold it against them that
the records of specific Lodge I needed weren't available. The Lodge
Secretary was equally helpful. The Grand Lodge of WV (in Charleston,
the state capital) had no records but forwarded my request to Virginia.

If ANV is hunting in one of "my" counties, I might be of more help, but
his very best bet is to contact the Grand Lodge's Secretary.

BTW: The Grand Lodge of each state *apparently* puts out a yearbook of
membership.

* OLX 2.1 TD *
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 18:45:29 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Tom Camfield <>
Organization: Internet for the Olympic Peninsula
Subject: Replies are Nice. . . but

Not a big complaint or anything. But lately I have been getting more and
more hem-haw replies...those that don't include any real information but
tell me where to find it by phoning, writing, whatever...
Now, these are not totally sharing people, those who have gone there and
obtained said information...and I am being treated as some lesser
researcher--
some Johnny-come-lately who has not paid his dues.

I would just like to encourage more of the type of exchange I am used to...
everyone whipping off actual facts (and periodic snail-mail bundles)
without acting as if they were hocking the family jewels.

To some of us guys with lengthy fangs who are spread far and wide with our
research, all hints and suggestions cannot be pursued in the remaining time
available...and said hints, etc., are a sad reward for our own willing
participation and ready contributions over the years.

Just a thought. I bring it up because I have deadlines--both minor and
major.
--
Tom Camfield -
X-Message:
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 18:46:34 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: NorskaWood <>
Organization: Nowhere Land
Subject: Re: German Nobility problem

In article <4j4ddl$>,
Russell I. Haley <> wrote:
>
>Can anyone tell me where I might look for some authoritative
>information on Prince Frederick of
>Schleswig-Holstein-Sondenburg-Augusterburg.

Have you tried asking in alt.talk.royalty? There are a lot of
knowledgable folks in there, including a couple who are interested in all
the European royal families. They might be able to give you some info &
pointers to sources.

Vikki

--
`^`~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,.
Norskawood | I sat belonely down a tree, Humbled, fat and small.
| A little lady sing to me I couldn't see at all.
`^`~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,.

(NorskaWood)
X-Message:
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 06:00:38 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Elyse Melanson <>
Organization: MV Communications, Inc.
Subject: Re: ?Unmarried couple's child

In article <4j6gns$>,
<> wrote:
>
> In the areas where I have encountered this, I record the name of the
> Father and Mother and leave the marraige information blank. I attach
> a note describing this as a "Common Law" marriage.

The problem with the term "Common Law" marriage - at least in
Massachusetts, is that a "Common Law" marriage occurs after a couple has
been living together "as man and wife" for a period of not less than
seven years. After this point in time, the "Common Law" spouse has as
much legal right to assets, etc. as a couple who was traditionally
married.. including survivorship benefits if the seven year term can be
documented.

My daughter is "illegitimate" and her father and I were not together for
seven years (we lived in MA) so we are not "Common Law" - I am following
this thread very closely in hopes that maybe a solution to this "problem"
will surface. Also... when will software programs allow for this??? - A
question for the future generations....

Elyse

--
**************************************************************
Elyse Melanson

Ask me about Petra Fashions - go ahead!!! ASK!!!

***************** Barbados Trip, anyone??? ********************
X-Message:
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 06:09:35 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Hank Matty <>
Organization: Arizona Daily Star - AZSTARNET
Subject: Re: Name the relationship

[ snip ]

>>Sat 16 Mar 1996, Hank Matty <>:

[ snip ]

>>The statement "To be double second cousins includes the first cousin
>Mar 16 statement, above, regarding double second cousins, etc. etc.,
>was mine, but I made it in an E-mail reply, and have no idea how
>that turned into a post. I discovered my error, a slip of the
[ snip ]

>[ IMPORTANT POINT TO POSTERS: please be careful about posting quotes
> from private e-mail to the group -- depending upon circumstance,
> that can be considered a serious breach of netiquette, and the
> moderators can't always be trusted to catch it.

> BTW, the posting of summaries of helpful responses you receive to a
> query is the one major exception to the "don't quote private
> e-mail" netiquette, and even then you should use judgment on what
> you quote. -Mod ]

> (Hank Matty)

The statement of mine which appears just above that of the Moderator's, was
inexact. I thank Kevin Dye for bringing that to my attention. Instead of
saying "I made it in an E-mail reply, and have no idea how that turned into a
post", I should have said "I posted this accidentally while intending to
correct an error I had sent in E-mail". No person other than myself was
responsible for posting what I mistakenly believed to be E-mail, and no other
person was guilty of bad netiquette. I regret my careless expression.

Mary, Hannah, and Deborah have had a good run. The E-mail was even greater
than the number of posts. The thread has splintered somewhat, so I am content
to leave it with my views as expressed following those of Richard Pence,
above. Please join in a new thread on Index of Relationship.

Hank Matty

X-Message:
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 06:10:45 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: William Mills <>
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Subject: Re: Replies are Nice. . . but

In article <4j7lo8$>,
Tom Camfield <> wrote:
>
>more hem-haw replies...those that don't include any real information but
>tell me where to find it by phoning, writing, whatever...
>Now, these are not totally sharing people, those who have gone there and
>obtained said information...and I am being treated as some lesser
>researcher--

This group is all about helping people find the sources to do their
research. I'd hardly say people who give helpful hints on sources to
pursue aren't sharing. Instead I'd assume they don't know about your
ancestors, but do know of some resources that might help you
learn more.

>research, all hints and suggestions cannot be pursued in the remaining time
>available...and said hints, etc., are a sad reward for our own willing
>participation and ready contributions over the years

Not all of your genealogical problems have already been solved by someone
else. Why not add a signature to all your questions - "Just answer
my questions, but don't give me any research hints - I don't have time
to look up anything for myself." :-)

Seriously - it's always helpful to tell what sources you've checked or
know about when you post a question; don't assume readers recognize
your name and are familiar with your areas of expertise. Nobody likes
taking the time to respond, only to hear back, "I already knew that."

Your post is pretty discouraging to those of us who share research tips.

Bill

(William Mills)
X-Message:
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 06:11:28 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" <>
Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456)
Subject: Re: Are there non-invasive methods for determining burial sites?

Scott () wrote:

> Some close relatives would like to find out the exact site where their
> grandmother is buried.

Last year, I spoke to a man who searches for graves in the area of
construction sites as a profession. He said that metal rods can be
used, not in the manner mentioned im this post, but to check the
electrical conductivity of the soil. This is done less in the
constructions sites; there, they usually scrape the top 6 inches
of soil away. The graveshaft then becomes visible (at least to the
trained eye).

Perhaps the archaeology department of a local university could
provide pointers on someone who could provide this service.

--
-Douglas Hurst Quebbeman ()
"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits
X-Message:
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 06:12:03 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "Charles W. Sullivan" <>
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Greensboro
Subject: Re: First Participant's Post To New Newsgroup

Richard Pence () wrote:
<snip>
: No fees or donations are requested. There is a small fee for borrowing
: microfilm through a local Family History Center (about $4).
<snip>

I might add that although donations to a Family History Center are not
requested, they will not be refused, and these can help the Center
expand its permanent collection of research materials.

Regards,
Charles Sullivan

(Charles W. Sullivan)
X-Message:
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 06:12:59 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Lunetta595 <>
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Subject: Re: Regional National Archives Branches

Regional National Archive Branches hold full census records, regional land
records and more.

To get Civil War records, you can E-mail your request for a NATF Form 80
at .

Fill out the form as directed, requesting Pension Records for your
ancestor. They will do a search (no cost) and notify you of any records
were found. If no info is located, then do another request, this time
requesting Military records. Pension Records usually have more
information that would be of genealogical value, but if there are none,
Military records can be helpful.

When records are found, you will be notified by mail. You send in your
check for $10 for copying fees, and they send the records to you.

Happy Hunting...

(Lunetta595)
X-Message:
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 06:13:57 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: RichH <>
Organization: D104-Bedford
Subject: Re: Replies are Nice. . . but

The problem is tha the person offering the assistance, no matter how
mundane it seems to you, is only trying to help. Usually he/she doesn't
know the level of "expertise" of the requester. He/she also does not know
how much you know based on the query, therefore will usually offer only
the basics. If it's "too basic" for you, then simply thank the person and
move on.
If it's not appreciated, then the offerer will be discouraged from doing
that again. . . .and "you" (no one in particular) will find less people
willing to offer assistance when you ask for it.
Rich in NH

In article <4j7lo8$>, (Tom
Camfield) wrote:
(SEVERAL SNIPPITYS)
>
> I would just like to encourage more of the type of exchange I am used to...
> everyone whipping off actual facts (and periodic snail-mail bundles)
> without acting as if they were hocking the family jewels.
>
> To some of us guys with lengthy fangs who are spread far and wide with our
> research, all hints and suggestions cannot be pursued in the remaining time
> available...and said hints, etc., are a sad reward for our own willing
> participation and ready contributions over the years.
--
EMAIL:
X-Message:
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 06:14:39 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: TOM F G <>
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Subject: Book for origins of town names?

Hello, Is there a book, government issued or other, that list the origins
of
town, city, etc.. names? In particular, I'm looking for the origins of a
town
called "Hicks" Virginia. It's in Amherst County in between Tobacco Row
Mountains and a branch of the Huff Creek. This is an area where my
HIX / HICKS use to live back in the late 1700's. I would like to know if
there is any connection. Please reply to me personaly and to the list.
Thanks. Tom

X-Message:
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 06:17:32 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Jim Royer <>
Organization: 97th Communications Sq.
Subject: Re: ?Unmarried couple's child

(Carl Parow) wrote:

>In article <4j4rc5$>, wrote:

>> How do you record the mate of an illegitimate child? Do you still put the
>> name in the same place as a spouse and just don't list a marriage date or
>> what?

>I would enter the name in the place of the spouse and obviously there
>would be no marraige date. The program I use (Reunion) provides for the
>entry to be either, Married, Unmarried, Common Law, Separated, Divorced or
>Annulled which may appear on the family card.

>Carl.

> (Carl Parow)

FTM gives the option of using the entry of "Friend" in addition to
those listed above.

Jim Royer

Opinions expressed above are my own and are independent of
the position of the U.S. Air Force!
X-Message:
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 06:20:32 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Jim Royer <>
Organization: 97th Communications Sq.
Subject: Re: Maiden Name Format?

wrote:

>In a message dated 96-03-24 17:42:12 EST, Kevin Johnson wrote:

>>I'm somewhat new to genealogy and entering info into a genealogy
>>computer program. I am wondering how to handle maiden names when
>>entering someones name. Should I use their married name and put the
>>maiden name in parentheses behind (that is what I've started to do) or
>>just put the maiden name.

>Use just the maiden names. Gets way too confusing when their are mulitple
>marriages, etc, later in life. Also serves to remind what the parents would
>have been known as. All of the computer programs record data in this way.

Here, here! I concur. After reviewing some of the work in the WFT CDs
I've come to the conclusion that your not going to do anything but
confuse people if you put in anything other than their maiden names.

This is even more important when your sharing your work with others.
The maiden name leaves a trail to the parents. If you publish your
work and only use the surname of the husband the chances of someone
else matching individuals with you drops drastically.

Jim Royer

Opinions expressed above are my own and are independent of
the position of the U.S. Air Force!
X-Message:
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 06:32:20 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Barney Tyrwhitt-Drake <>
Organization: Bucks Genealogical Society
Subject: Re: Leap Year

In article <4j698b$>, Richard Pence <Richard_Penc
e@p3565.f356.n109.z1.fidonet.org> writes
>
>I realize this is decidedly against the rules and we are supposed to take turns
>guessing <G>, but I got nervous about my previous answer, so I <gasp!> looked
>up "Leap Year." in the Enc. Brit.
>
>It confirmed my earlier message containing these rules:
>
>Leap years are all those divisible by 4 except years ending in 00, which are
>not leap years. The exception is that years divisible by 400 are leap years.
>
>It said 1600 and 2000 are leap years.
>
A previous posting included (crosses himself) a BASIC listing for
checking on leap years. To restore some purity to this thread here is
the real thing as a Pascal function, courtesy of Borland

function IsLeapYear(AYear: Integer): Boolean;
begin
IsLeapYear := (AYear mod 4 = 0) and ((AYear mod 100 <> 0) or (AYear
mod 400 = 0));
end;

[ A gentle reminder -- which I should have also added to the BASIC
program -- that software details will find a more appreciative
audience in soc.genealogy.methods ... though I find this program
much easier to read than the other. -- Mod ]

Translated into English, this agrees with the Encyclopedia Britannica,
and as we all know Californian computer scientists are never wrong :)

1600 was not a leap year for most English speaking people. Gregory XIII
may have decreed his changes in 1582, but they were not adopted in
Britain and its colonies until day end of 2 Sep 1752.

>[However, even encyclopedias can be wrong. I've sent one of the kids out for a
>fresh copy of the World Almanac, which I recall has an extensive section on
>calendars and leap years. (My CD almanac appears to be silent on leap year.)]
>

How do you get your kids to do that? Mine stopped listening years ago :)
--
Barney Tyrwhitt-Drake

Barney Tyrwhitt-Drake <>
X-Message:
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 06:36:28 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Kim Stewart <>
Organization: Harbor Communications
Subject: European Records-1800's

To All:

Does anyone know where I could find out if there were family biographical
sketches done in Austria (1800's)?
Any information would be appreciated!

Searching for information on Joseph BAUM and family from Freiwaldau, Austria.
There were eight children, a son, Henry BAUM b-March 13, 1862 whom came to
America in 1880 ( settled in Altoona, P.A. ).

(Kim Stewart)
X-Message:
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 07:23:51 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Don Stauffer <>
Organization: Honeywell Technology Center
Subject: Re: Replies are Nice. . . but

In article <4j7lo8$>, (Tom
Camfield) says:
>
>
>Not a big complaint or anything. But lately I have been getting more and
>more hem-haw replies...those that don't include any real information but
>tell me where to find it by phoning, writing, whatever...
>Now, these are not totally sharing people, those who have gone there and
>obtained said information...and I am being treated as some lesser
>researcher--
>some Johnny-come-lately who has not paid his dues.
>
>I would just like to encourage more of the type of exchange I am used
to...
>everyone whipping off actual facts (and periodic snail-mail bundles)
>without acting as if they were hocking the family jewels.
>
>To some of us guys with lengthy fangs who are spread far and wide with
our
>research, all hints and suggestions cannot be pursued in the remaining
time
>available...and said hints, etc., are a sad reward for our own willing
>participation and ready contributions over the years.
>
>Just a thought. I bring it up because I have deadlines--both minor and
>major.
>--
>Tom Camfield -
>
>
The problem is, we see so many posts for information where it is evident
that the querier hasn't done their homework. Now, you may not be one of
these, but we just get so tired of people asking questions that any
dictionary, etc. would have the answer to. Also, the folks who always
say, "hey those of you with CD rom phone books, please look up etc. for
me."

I agree with other responders who say first step is offering research
help. If person has further problems with research, then further help
will come.

As far as sharing of common information, there are some really nice
places like the Roots Surname List where that sort of thing is shared.

Don Stauffer in Minneapolis

X-Message:
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 07:25:25 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Chuck Holcomb <>
Organization: AltNet - Affordable Usenet Access - http://www.alt.net
Subject: Re: Are there non-invasive methods for determining burial sites?

(Scott) wrote:

>Some close relatives would like to find out the exact site where their
>grandmother is buried.

Scott,
Rather than the equivalent of "read a book," I'll see if I can help
you with some actual information.

>According to the sole survivor, the grandmother was supposed to be buried next
>to the grandfather's first wife. That presents 8 (possibly 9) choices... the
>eight plots around and possibly in the same plot. It is possible that (due to
>the snow) the actual site may not have been dug where it was intended to be;
>this possibility - while very real - is being put on the back burner until the
>others can be exhausted.

I'm assuming that the other graves are clearly delineated, or at the
very least marked with a head and/or footstone, so they can be
eliminated as possible "hits?"

>supposed to have a vault around the coffin, so the presumption was that that
>would still be intact).

And very likely is.

>The only other course of action that they can think of is exhumation of the
>area... and that seems far too drastic. I suggested posting here (so guess
>who got to do the actual posting) to see if there were any non-invasive
>methods for resolving this mystery. In specific, I was wondering if there was
>anything along the lines of seismic tomography (as used in the oil industry to
>determine the structure of rock formations between boreholes). In general,
>I'll take any reasonable suggestion anyone can make.

You're on the right track. There are couple of methods that should be
able to detect the burial, through detecting the disturbance in the
soil, or the actual burial itself. Actually, the anthro dept. at the
local univ. should be able to hook you up with the apparatus and
operator, if they don't have it themselves.

Here's what's currently available:

Electrical Resistivity Surveying - which can detect the disturbance
(lack of homogeneity) in the soil and/or the burial itself.

Proton Magnetometer, or the less-expensive proton gradiometer. I have
worked with the magnetometer, and seen it pinpoint postmolds at a
depth of over a meter, so a large, modern burial shouldn't be much of
a problem for it.

It is also possible to use a two-box metal detector, (electromagnetic
prospecting) of the type used by utility companies to trace
underground lines, unless she was buried in a glued-up, wooden coffin.
Even then, with some metal detectors, it is possible to reach depths
of 2m if the soil is not highly mineralized, and depending on the
sensitivity of the device, metal fixtures may not be necessary.

I sincerely hope this is of some help to you. If you have any further
questions, please don't hesitate to e-mail me.

-
Chuck Holcomb

++

A termite walks into a bar, and says, "Bartender?"

++
X-Message:
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 07:26:24 -0800
Reply-To: GFS Linda <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: GFS Linda <>
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Subject: Re: Replies are Nice. . . but

Tom,
When I got to a Library I'm looking for 2 things - either information on
my family or on Issaquah (I'm the City Historian). Whatever I find, I make
photocopies of those two subjects. If you ask a question and I'm fairly
certain your info could be listed in a resource I've found, should I not
share that information? I'm not likely to have copies of _your_ family,
but I do know where to find it.
Are you suggesting that it would be better for me to say nothing at all,
rather than share where I found the resource?
I spend countless hours helping other people find resources, but I've
never planned to do their research for them. To me, that's not what it's
all about. If it is, I'm in the wrong program.
L
GFS Linda, Co-leader Scot and Irish SIG, AOL Genealogy Forum. "If all the
world were genealogists, there would be no wars! No one would take a
chance on the records being burned!"

(GFS Linda)
X-Message:
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 07:56:24 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Gene Stackhouse <>
Organization: Biosis
Subject: Re: Maiden Name Format?

You should always enter the maiden name. The program should link husband and wife.
What software are you using?

[ If this thread is going to get into the details of how particular
programs behave or a comparison of different programs, then it needs
to move to soc.genealogy.computing. -- Mod ]

Gene in Philadelphia

Gene Stackhouse <>
X-Message:
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 08:14:39 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Eric Brunner <>
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Subject: Re: Are there non-invasive methods for determining burial sites?

Joel and Lynn GAzis-SAx () wrote:

[Joel sent this and I think it is of general interest so I'm posting a
fragment.]

>> I am sorry but I don't know much about how to determine the
>>location of a burial site. I was wondering if you knew anything about
>>the burial practices of the Chakchiuma Indians. They were a tribe
>>located in Mississippi during the European-Native AMerican contact period
>>(DeSoto in 1540s and Bienville in the 1700s). We believe they practiced
>>"Bundle burials" but cannot find much (written) evidence to support
>>this. If you know of anything regarding this tribe, please e-mail me.
>
>I don't know a lot about Native American burials, but I am ccing this to a
>friend whose significant other is a Native American archaeologist who might
>be able to tell you the answer, give you a reference, or refer you to
>someone else. (Eric -- can you make sure that Mary Beth sees this?)

The first place I'd look for info on a contact period SE group, particularly
since the query is for general info primarily, and mortuary info secondary,
is the nativehistory-l list. Recently we've been working on the Mobellians
during the Hispano-French Contact periods. I'd also see the essay in the
collection entitled "Powhatten's Robe" (it is still in a box so no author
or ISBN at this point, see a librarian) specific to the French formative
period in the lower Mississippi.

Per Joel's request, I'll make sure that MB see's Heather's request, and
email her a copy of this.

--
Kitakitamatsinohpowaw (I'll see you again),

--Eric Brunner

(Eric Brunner)
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 05:52:00 -0800
Reply-To: BCJohnsonJ <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: BCJohnsonJ <>
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Subject: Re: Maiden Name Format?

In a GEDCOM file database enter the maiden name of the wife. If she was
previously married set up a separate group sheet for her first marriage.
If you are compiling a word processing document the Registers System of
putting the maiden name in Parenthesis followed by previous married name
is normally used if wife was previously married.
B. Johnson

(BCJohnsonJ)
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 05:51:30 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Hollick & Clark <>
Organization: Hollick & Clark
Subject: Re: Book for origins of town names?

In article <4j8u4c$>, (TOM F G) wrote:

> Hello, Is there a book, government issued or other, that list the origins
> of
> town, city, etc.. names? In particular, I'm looking for the origins of a
> town
> called "Hicks" Virginia. It's in Amherst County in between Tobacco Row
> Mountains and a branch of the Huff Creek. This is an area where my
> HIX / HICKS use to live back in the late 1700's. I would like to know if
> there is any connection. Please reply to me personaly and to the list.

Here's a good example of the problem one can face on this newsgroup. (per
Tom Camfield's recent posting--this is a two for one message). The answer
clearly is a gazetteer. I do not do Virginia research myself, but as a
reference librarian, I know that this type of information is contained in
gazetteers. Which one specifically for Virginia--who knows? Start with
the Columbia Lippincott and work down to a Virginia Historical Gazetteer.

Now I feel it is the poster's job to do the research. He/She must go to a
library and look up books on his/her own. I merely point the person in
the right direction. Why do family research if you don't like research?
I think we should all help each other, but those who want to be carried to
the "promised land" should learn how to walk.

I answer very few questions, since I do it for a living and find it
tedious to do it on my off-hours. I see alot of nice people, in a
well-meaning way, give very BAD advice. But, that's the internet. For
every person who would prefer structure there are two who want the
anarchy.

To this specific poster--sorry to use you as an example.

Martin E. Hollick

(Hollick & Clark)
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 06:01:04 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Harrold Henck jr <>
Organization: Prodigy Services Company 1-800-PRODIGY
Subject: Re: Masonic & Odd Fellows research?

I think you and many others either have uninformed opinions or just have
had a bad experience re: masonic information. Although there are crabby
old men in some lodges, many I know are happy to share information. Most
lodges keep a member's petition (membership application) on file together
with the offices he held, awards received, and a copy of his obituary if
deceased.

As "recruiting" by masons is prohibited by most lodges, the only was you
can become a mason is to ask to join! Thus, most lodges host open house
nights and invite the public, or they hold public ceremonies - anything
to get "good" attention! Thus, when someone doing genealogy inquires
about an ancestor who was once a member, they are often happy to share.
(It is probably hoped that the person asking might even take an interest
in joining!) One more note: Masonry is not anti-catholic! (at least not
officially, maybe some members are) Most likely, some catholics are anti-
masonic! I know a few catholic members in masonry and their churches are
not opposed to the membership. (I only mention this as I saw some
postings regarding this factor)

Lastly, as for the Oddfellows - again an uninformed person making a
statement about something they know nothing about! The Oddfellows, once
one of the largest groups in the nation, still thrive and even have a Wed
site that includes a section on how to make a genealogical inquiry! The
Grand Lodge of the nation is located in Winston-Salem, NC. They also
have a companion sister group - the Rebekahs - who also have genealogical
data! Please take the time to research such possibilities before making
uninformed statements! It causes bad feelings and discourages research
by others!

Hope this is of help (and hope) to those making such inquiries! -
H. Henck, Texas

(Harrold Henck jr)
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 06:01:59 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Henry Churchyard <>
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin
Subject: Re: ?Unmarried couple's child

In article <4j4rc5$>, <> wrote:

> How do you record the mate for an illegitimate child? Do you still put the
> name in the same place as a spouse and just don't list a marriage date or
> what?

What's annoying is that the GEDCOM standard seems to allow no simple
clear way of stating that the parent(s) of a child were _not_ married.

By the way, I have an interesting legal document at
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/mariatrx.html -- Maria Truax
had a child by a man other than her husband in New Amsterdam
in 1642, and this man signed (or was made to sign) a paternity
document that closes off _ALL_ potential loopholes whatsoever.

--
Henry Churchyard || University of Texas ||
Churchyard/Orr Genealogy: http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/genealgy.html
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 06:19:00 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Henry Churchyard <>
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin
Subject: Re: Name the relationships -Elax married his son's wife's sisters

In article <4j3til$>,
Harold Helm <> wrote:

>Elax Casey married his son's wife's sisters in marriages #3 and #4.
>-please tell me the *relationships

I have the same thing, but with genders reversed, on Web page:

http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/stintrmg.html

________________________________________________________________________=
_

THE STRANGEST INTERMARRIAGE

Elizabeth Casse's second husband was the elder brother of her
son-in-law (that is, the husband of her daughter by her first
husband), and Elizabeth Casse had children by both her husbands (see
the diagram below). So Elisabeth Dumontet's brother-in-law was her
step-father, and she was an aunt by marriage to her half-siblings. And
the children of Pierre Monet were related to the children of Fran=E7oi=
s
Monet not only as first cousins, but also as half-uncles and
half-aunts. (Genetically, the two sets of children shared 1/4 of their
genes, the same degree of relationship as between a grandparent and
grandchild, as between half-siblings, or as between a full uncle/aunt
and niece/nephew.)

In other words, Elisabeth Dumontet was her own step-aunt! (That's not
quite as impressive an accomplishment as being your own grandpa, but
still plenty confusing.)

1699
Fran=E7ois Monet =3D=3D=3D=3D Marie Dumas
1661-1746 | 1675-1753
|
+------------------+--------------------------------+
| |
| |
| 1712 1730 |
| Jean Dumontet =3D=3D=3D=3D Elizabeth Casse =3D=3D=3D=3D Pi=
erre Monet
| 1659-1729 | 1696-1766 | 1704-1774
| | |
| | |
| 1732 | children
Fran=E7ois Monet =3D=3D=3D=3D Elisabeth Dumontet
1706-1762 | 1717-1767
|
|
many
children

All these people lived in Quebec, by the way (except the elder
Fran=E7ois Monet, who was born in France, and Elizabeth Casse -- or
Corse -- who was born in Deerfield Massachusetts, and taken captive in
a French and Indian raid at the age of 8, and had an illegitimate
daughter before her first marriage, at age 16; but that's another
story). I'm descended from a son of Fran=E7ois Monet and Elisabeth (or
Marie-Elisabeth) Dumontet.
________________________________________________________________________=
_

-- _______
.------|_______ Churchyard/Orr || Henry Churchyard
------+ _______ Genealogy Web Site || University of Texa=
s
`------|_______ http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/genealgy.html

(Henry Churchyard)
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 06:29:19 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "W. John Williams" <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: ENGLAND 1901/1911 census - can you request info?

Dumb Question from down under:

English census of 1901/1911 are within the 100 year withholding
limit. So they havn't been released for public viewing.

But if you can prove you are a direct descendant of a particualr
individual and want to see if that particular individual resides
at a particular address, can you get access to it? If so from
where, from whom, and what proof as a descendant (if any) do you
need?? It would save me a LOT of work (and I might just be
tempted to even pay money for it!)

Anyone have any clues?

John Williams
Canberra
Australia


X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 06:29:52 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Greg Maxfield <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: ?Unmarried couple's child

In a message dated 96-03-25 11:43:43 EST, you write:

>In the areas where I have encountered this, I record the name of the
> Father and Mother and leave the marraige information blank. I attach
> a note describing this as a "Common Law" marriage.
>
>

This is what I do also. However, I would be careful about using the term
"Common Law." This is a legal term where certain conditions have to be met.
Obviously, not all parents of illegitimate children even live together, once
of the conditions of common law marriage, nor do they fill time requirements.
Different jurisdictions have different rules regarding common law so use the
term only when you know the conditions have been met. Otherwise, just leave
the marriage date blank and add a note:

Notes
MARRIAGE: Not married

Greg


X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 06:38:45 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "John F. Chandler" <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Leap year

> P.S.: In my previous message I wrote that 2000 _is_ a leap year. I have
> a nagging feeling that I have made a mistake on that and there is yet another
> wxception to the divisible by 400 rule:

No, you were right before. Perhaps what confused you is the fact that
Russia adopted a slightly non-Gregorian calendar with its own rules for
leap years. The problem is that the mean length of the year according
to the Gregorian calendar is 365.2425 days, but the true length of the
year (from vernal equinox to vernal equinox) is 365.2422 days. Thus,
we accumulate an error of about a day every 3200 years. The Russian
scheme, I believe, matches the Gregorian calendar for the next several
hundred years, but it follows a repeating pattern over 9 centuries
instead of 4 and comes up with a mean length of 365.2422 days. Perhaps
by the time the difference actually comes up, the calendar will have
been unified anyway.

John F. Chandler

(John F. Chandler)
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 06:50:52 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: RichH <>
Organization: D104-Bedford
Subject: Re: Replies are Nice. . . but

I Agree 145%! I understand now what you meant. . .however, it didn't come
out that way in your post. Good point..... Rich in NH
In article <4jabd1$>, (Tom
Camfield) wrote:
> My only grumble deals with those who are eager to receive but not inclined
> to give in return.
--
EMAIL:
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 08:43:24 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "Linda L. Andrews" <>
Organization: The Andrews School
Subject: Re: Replies are Nice. . . but

RichH wrote:
>
> I Agree 145%! I understand now what you meant. . .however, it didn't come
> out that way in your post. Good point..... Rich in NH
> In article <4jabd1$>, (Tom
> Camfield) wrote:
> > My only grumble deals with those who are eager to receive but not inclined
> > to give in return.
> --
> EMAIL:

You're absolutely right! Sorry I said you were having a "grouchy
day." Linda
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 08:42:46 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: lavanet!
Organization: LavaNet, Inc.
Subject: Marriposa Battalion

[ A gentle reminder that shorter lines are more readable and that
more details may help your readers give better answers. -- Mod ]

Does anyone know how to find a roster of the Marriposa Batalion under Major James Savage these
where mostly volunteer millitiamen serving in the Marriposa Indian War in Calif. and where cridited to be
the first white men in Yosemite Valley.I'm looking to see if any Wass's, Phillip's,or Ashworths where part
of this militia.Any help would be appreciated.

lavanet!
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 07:07:57 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "Linda L. Andrews" <>
Organization: The Andrews School
Subject: Re: Replies are Nice. . . but

I respectfully disagree with your evaluation of the help you get from
others, although I realize you are working with the stress of meeting
deadlines. That takes some of the joy out of the search. Personally,
those hints about who to call, where I might find the info, etc. have
helped me a great deal. Some of the messages I receive are very
detailed and specific - and that's great too. For the amount of money
I'm paying these people, I think I'm getting much more than my money's
worth. And, by the way, sometimes I offer an idea that may or may not
be helpful - and other times I offer valuable specific information.
Some days I am just grouchy and not appreciative of anyone or anything
- and I suspect you may have just had a grouchy day. I'll be happy to
share specific information whenever I can be of help to you.

Best Regards,

Linda Lucas Andrews

Tom Camfield wrote:
>
> Not a big complaint or anything. But lately I have been getting more and
> more hem-haw replies...those that don't include any real information but
> tell me where to find it by phoning, writing, whatever...
[ snip ]


X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 10:07:26 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: "Coralie J. Allen" <>
Organization: Minnesota Regional Network (MRNet)
Subject: Re: Regional National Archives Branches

Could someone please post a list of the Regional National Archives
Branches? It would be helpful to know where the ones nearest my
residence are. So far only three have been mentioned--Philadephia,
Chicago, and Seattle. Are ther more?

[ Rather than have half a dozen of you post the list for Coralie,
I retrieved this list from the National Archives web page:
* National Archives-New England Region, Waltham, Massachusetts
* National Archives-Pittsfield Region, Pittsfield, Massachusetts
* National Archives-Northeast Region, New York, New York
* National Archives-Mid Atlantic Region, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
* National Archives-Southeast Region, Atlanta, Georgia
* National Archives-Great Lakes Region, Chicago, Illinois
* National Archives-Central Plains Region, Kansas City, Missouri
* National Archives-Southwest Region, Fort Worth, Texas
* National Archives-Rocky Mountain Region, Denver, Colorado
* National Archives-Pacific Southwest Region, Laguna Niguel, California
* National Archives-Pacific Sierra Region, San Bruno, California
* National Archives-Pacific Northwest Region, Seattle, Washington
* National Archives-Alaska Region, Anchorage, Alaska

The Archives have both a gopher (gopher.nara.gov) and a web page,
http://www.nara.gov which I recommend as good sources. -- Mod ]

--
Coralie Allen ()
-------------------------------------------------------------------
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 10:43:39 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Nora Cantrell <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: ?Unmarried couple's child

In a message dated 96-03-27 08:33:39 EST, you write:

>My daughter is "illegitimate" and her father and I were not together for
>seven years (we lived in MA) so we are not "Common Law" - I am following
>this thread very closely in hopes that maybe a solution to this "problem"
>will surface. Also... when will software programs allow for this??? - A
>question for the future generations....
>
>Elyse

Hi,
I'm new to the list, and this caught my eye. I was doing my family this week,
and my problem is similar to Elyse. I was illegitimate, but my mother was
married to my older brother's father at the time. Needless to say, he is
listed as my father in my birth certificate. How do I go about explaining it
on my program for future generations. (I got over it 30 years ago!)

Nora in Seattle

X-Message:
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 09:29:29 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Lesley Robertson <>
Organization: Delft University of Technology
Subject: Re: Replies are Nice. . . but

(William Mills) wrote:
>
>Your post is pretty discouraging to those of us who share research tips.
>

Well, PLEASE don't stop! I've made quite good progress because other folk
have mentioned good source material in these groups (sometimes in answer
to a question about a related, but different area). I'm eternally
grateful to the guy who sent me the reference to Heese & Lombard's
genealogical lists for S.Africa - I'd have made little progress without
it. He was only answering a query about one surname - I've found data on
a dozen from the book!
Lesley Robertson

Lesley Robertson <>
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 12:22:31 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Thomas Pongracz <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: ?Unmarried couple's child

FTM has a way to solve this problem.....they use the words:
Other or Partners
(Thomas Pongracz)
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 12:40:43 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Conrad Hoffman <>
Organization: PSS InterNet Services, Interneting Florida and beyond 904 253 7100
Subject: What's the right way to handle "de"

Hi

Where does the de in names like John de Boynton belong? Should it go
with the John or the Boynton? Or should I just forget it? Also, is a
Sir always a Knight in England? Sometimes I see Sir(Kngt.) and
sometimes just Sir.

Thanks, Conrad
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 13:30:23 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Jerilyn Marshall <>
Organization: Northwestern University, Chicago, IL. USA
Subject: Re: 1850s Black Genealogy Methods?

In article <4iunhu$>, says...
>
>
>I have traced my g-g-grandfather back to Mississippi by using the
>1880 census report. On that report it lists his age as 26 and his
>place of birth as Mississippi. However, I have no idea what county
>in Missippi he was born in. His name is Hugh Lewis, and he would
>have been born in about 1854. He was a Black man so it is quite
>probable that he was born a slave. I have no other info except
>that his mother's first name was Hanna. Can anyone help?
>

I'm not sure whether this will immediately pay dividends in your
research, but I would recommend reading articles by Elizabeth Shown
Mills, editor of the National Genealogical Society Quarterly. She has
done lots of genealogical research on the families of former slaves (as
well as other families in the southern United States). She is a
fantastic writer and an amazing researcher. Her articles could help you
because her research methodology is explained in detail in every article
she writes. You could get ideas from her writing. I frequently have
read her articles just for enjoyment, even though I have absolutely no
Southern ancestry.

--
JERILYN MARSHALL
Northwestern University, Chicago, IL. USA

X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 13:26:10 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Stillwell Stephen <>
Organization: University of North Texas
Subject: Re: German Nobility problem

HSH Prince Friedrich Emil August of
Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-AugusteNburg

born Kiel 23 Aug 1800

married first 17 Sept 1829 Countess Henriette of Danneskjold-Samsoe (b. 9
May 1806)

They had the following children:

HSH Prince Friedrich Christian Karl August 16 Nov 1830-25 Dec 1881
HSH Prince Christian 13 Dec 1832-3 Feb 1834
HSH Princess Louise Caroline Henriette Auguste 29 July 1836-25 Sept 1866
HSH Princess Marie 8 Aug 1838-3 Feb 1839

BTW HSH stands for His or Her Serene Highness

The first son married a Venezuelan and had two daughters - there maybe
living descendants.

The first daughter married a Roumanian princeling (not royal family) and
had twin sons, one of whom married his first cousin - the youngest
daughter of the above.

The elder prince renounced the throne to marry Marie Esther Lee.

The marriage took place on 3 Nov 1864. The Emperor of Austria created
him the Prince of Noer on 6 Oct 1864. His only living son was creat the
Count of Noer on 12 April 1870.

ME Lee was born NYC 3 Oct 1837 and died Hanover 4 July 1914.

The Prince of Noer died at Beirut on 2 July 1865.

ME Lee married a second time to Field Marshal Count Alfred Heinrich Carl
Ludwig von Waldersee. Her parents were David Lee and Ann Philipps.

Let me know if you need any more - I can fill in a little on the children
and grandchildren.

-- Stephen Stillwell
University of North Texas

Stillwell Stephen <>
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 14:25:56 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: JoAnn Gemmrig <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: ?Unmarried couple's child

At 12:22 PM 3/27/96 -0800, you wrote:
>FTM has a way to solve this problem.....they use the words:
>Other or Partners
> (Thomas Pongracz)

TMG/The Master Genealogist provides: Adt - Adoptive; Fst - Foster,
God - Godparent, Nat - Natural parent, Oth - Other, Stp - Stepparent. (It
defaults to Nat).

Of course, TMG is not intuitive is this situation, so will not
"marry" the natual parents without consulting you.

You may also create a tag type which might better suit your
situation...or attitude <g>.

JoAnn

JoAnn Gemmrig <>
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 14:02:26 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Julia Sturgis <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: ENGLAND 1901/1911 census - can you request info?

It is currently possible to apply for information from the 1901 census. You
do have do prove direct descendency (presumably your birth certificate would
do) and also the Town and Street Name or Village Name (for small areas).

I'm not sure of the cost, I believe it is fairly pricey especially if you are
not precise about the location.

For more information, I suggest you contact St. Catherines House in London.

I don't think the 1911 census is available by any means yet.

Hope this helps.

Julia Sturgis (Hampshire, England).


X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 16:59:41 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: anne Hood <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: St. Clairs Defeat..

My GGGG-Grandfather was said to have parished in St. Clairs Defeat (1791). I
have found several books that describe what happened and the details, but I
would like to find a list of casualtys. I went through the rolls of
Enlistments for the surname CONWAY (I don't know the first name), but I
couldn't find anyone who specificaly died at the right time. Several were
'Deranged', at term which I don't understand in the context it was offered.

Thanks,
Anne


X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 17:02:46 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Russell Hardidge <>
Organization: OzEmail Pty Ltd - Australia
Subject: Re: Easter, date of????

(Tom Lincoln) wrote:
a program stub for calculating Easter

>/*-----------------------------*/
> long get_easter(y,jgy) /* Algorithm */
>/*-----------------------------*/ /* from Tom Lincoln */
> /* <> */
<SNIP>
>Enjoy!
> (Tom Lincoln)
I had some problems with the original due, no doubt, to compiler
differences. The following C program with forced oiperator precedence
and specific type casts operates well with my compiler (Microsoft).
It was written as a simple test- normally one would allow operator
input of the year- then pass this as a long integer to the function.
The output is the date of Easter Sunday expressed as a date in March-
i.e. if the return is <32 it is the date in March else subtract 31 and
it is the date in April so that 36 = 5 April. Call the function
get_easter() with the year as a long integer.
Next job is to translate this into JavaScript and pop it on the home
page- check it out in 6 months <g>

#include <stdio.h>

long get_easter(y)

/* Original program by Tom Lincoln <>- slight adaption
by Russell Hardidge <> */
long y;
{
long n,a,e,c,m,v;
long ratio();
long gregory = 0L;
long eta = 0L;
long century4 = 0L;
long jgy = 1582L;

if( y>jgy ) /* using the Gregorian not the Julian calendar */
{
e = ratio(y,100L);
century4 =( 2L- e) + ratio(e,4L); /* skipped leap years:
*/
gregory = e - ratio(e,4L) - ratio((e-ratio((e-17L),25L)),3L);
eta = ratio(((11L*gregory)+26L),30L); /* de Morgan's fine tuning
*/
}

/* the basic generalization: */
n = y - 1600L;

a = n - (19L * ratio((n + 4L),19L));
c =( 19L * a) - ratio(((7L * a) + eta),11L) + gregory;

m = c - (29L * ratio((c + 1L), 29L));
v = n + ratio(n ,4L) + century4;

return((30L- v) +( 7L * ratio((v + m - 1L),7L)));
}

long ratio(a,b)

long a, b;
{
if(b == 0)
{
printf("ratio(): zero divisor!\n\r");
exit(1);
}
if(a%b == 0) return a/b;

if( (a >0) == (b>0) ) return a/b;
{
long minusA;
minusA= -a;
return (-1L-(minusA/b));
}
}
main()
{
long get_easter();
long a,b,c,d,e;
a=get_easter(1995L);
b=get_easter(1996L);
c=get_easter(1997L);
d=get_easter(1998L);
e=get_easter(1999L);
printf("Easter in 1995 is %d\n96-%d\n97-%d\n98-%d\n99-%d",
(int)a,(int)b,(int)c,(int)d,(int)e);
}

Russell Hardidge
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~rushard
PGP public key finger
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 17:15:17 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Joel and Lynn GAzis-SAx <>
Organization: Alsirat Online Magazine
Subject: City of the Silent Adds Tombstone Rubbings

Followups set to alt.society.funerary

City of the Silent (a Pointcom Best 5% of the Web Site) has added its
long-awaited "How to Do Tombstone Rubbings" page and thanks Richard Lupu for
his excellent instructions.

You can visit the site at

http://www.best.com/~gazissax/city.html

The site also includes the World Wide Web Post-Mortem Page, the WWW's single
largest annotated listing of grave and death sites; the Post-Mortem Booklist;
the USENET Post-Mortem Page; reasons why sane people visit cemeteries; a
glossary of cemetery terms; a reader's sharing page; and a short history of
cemeteries.

Regards,

Joel GAzis-SAx

************************************************************************
Joel and Lynn GAzis-SAx Main email:
http://www.best.com/~gazissax/
Visit Alsirat:
http://www.best.com/~gazissax/alsirat.html
The Marx (Joel) (Lynn)
RESIST THE CDA: http://www.best.com/~gazissax/gandhi.html
************************************************************************
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 17:16:50 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Robert Gillis <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: ?Unmarried couple's child

>In article <4j4rc5$>, wrote:
>
>> How do you record the mate of an illegitimate child? Do you still put the
>> name in the same place as a spouse and just don't list a marriage date or
>> what?

A lot depends on what program you are using. In The Master Genealogist you
can enter both parents without a marriage. Bob Gillis


X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 17:19:43 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: JoAnn Gemmrig <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Replies are Nice. . . but

If this is turning into a pet peeve post, I'd like to add my two.

1) Self-proclaimed "experts" who: Begin their response with "I don't
know the answer to your question; but..." then go off on some tangent making
a guess (usually wrong); spend so much time on the internet writing e-mail
you wonder if they even do research; or those who want to challenge every
piece of advice offered by someone else.

2) The broadly shared data with no documentation, and the wide
acceptance and redistribution of said data. (This scares me more than
aggravates me <g>.)

Gee thanks, I feel better now. Tho' cluttering everyone elses
mailbox with gripes probably should be included as a pet peeve <g>.

[ Let's take this as a gentle hint and move on to other topics. -- Mod ]

JoAnn

JoAnn Gemmrig <>
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 19:38:19 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Don Mansfield <>
Organization: Prodigy Services Company 1-800-PRODIGY
Subject: locating the dead

I am trying to locate my wife's father. I can not seem to find him
on the www switchboard so i assume he is dead. His last weareabouts
was florida so I think he died there. Can you please tell me how to
locate death records of this person or a new way to search this person.
By the way he was born in another country. i dont know if that is of
importance

(Don Mansfield)
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 19:37:36 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Gordon R Wilkinson <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: What's the right way to handle "de"

>
>Hi
>
>Where does the de in names like John de Boynton belong? Should it go
>with the John or the Boynton? Or should I just forget it? Also, is a
>Sir always a Knight in England? Sometimes I see Sir(Kngt.) and
>sometimes just Sir.
>
>Thanks, Conrad
>
>

Submit: John \de Boynton\ to your database.

Means: John of Boynton

or you can simply use: John Boynton (to simplify your data) and clarify
the full name in/under the *notes* section of your name.

--
Gordon Wilkinson | Searching for: WILKINSON, LAUDER
| WITT, MEITZ, BRASCH, KNUTH, YOURTH
"Stirgud the Stout" | SCOTT, POIRIER, LALANDE, PARADIS
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 19:50:47 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Charles Thomas <>
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Subject: J.O.U.A.M. (Was: Re: Masonic & Odd Fellows research?)

(Harrold Henck jr) wrote:
>
>I think you and many others either have uninformed opinions or just have
>had a bad experience re: masonic information.

So far I have had very good response from the Masons.

>Lastly, as for the Oddfellows - again an uninformed person making a
>statement about something they know nothing about! The Oddfellows, once
>one of the largest groups in the nation, still thrive and even have a Wed
^^^
>site that includes a section on how to make a genealogical inquiry! The
^^^^^^
Could you post the URL for this please?

>Grand Lodge of the nation is located in Winston-Salem, NC. They also
>have a companion sister group - the Rebekahs - who also have genealogical
>data! Please take the time to research such possibilities before making
>uninformed statements! It causes bad feelings and discourages research
>by others!
>
>H. Henck, Texas

Is anyone familiar with the Junior Order United American Mechanics,
usually shortened to just Junior Order? Are they still in existance or
have they gone the way of the buggy whip? My GGrandfather was elected
national chaplain for them in 1899 at the national convention in Chicago.
So far I can't seem to find any info about the Junior Order.

Charles Thomas <>
X-Message:
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 19:55:54 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Grace Lobello <>
Organization: Fidonet: Dynasty BBS * Elk Grove, CA (916)686-6946
Subject: Re: ?Unmarried couple's child

-=> Quoting steele?Unmarried couple's childun.tir.com to All <=-

st> How do you record the mate of an illegitimate child? Do you still put
st> the name in the same place as a spouse and just don't list a marriage
st> date or what?

I use PAF. I would put the mate's name in the same place as the spouse
and use the comments section to indicate the from-to time span of this
"union." Especially if the relationship and child occurred between
marriages. The child's parentage needs to be accurately documented,
irregardless of the nature of the union. The comments section is also
useful in identifying adoptees and step-children that are eventually
adopted by the non-blood parent. I also use it to identify persons will
multiple spouses and/or complex inter-family relationships.

... I'd rather ride the Wave than wallow in QWKsand!
--
: Fidonet: Grace Lobello 1:203/10 .. speaking for only myself.
: Internet:
X-Message:
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 10:39:21 -0800
Reply-To:
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Paul Rakow <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Replies are nice. . . but

References
<4j7lo8$>

Newsgroups:
soc.genealogy.methods
~~~~~~~

Tom Camfield - wrote:-

>Not a big complaint or anything. But lately I have been getting more and
>more hem-haw replies...those that don't include any real information but
>tell me where to find it by phoning, writing, whatever...

And this he says in s.g.methods! ;-)

Well Tom,
I don't think I can agree with you this time. I think most people
who post the genealogy groups are not so far back in time that they
are going to find that their ancestor has already been researched,
the only answers they're likely to get are advice on what to do next.

One can usually judge how much a person already knows, but there's
always a risk when answering that you'll tell someone what they already
know. I think in most of the FAQs it says that you should try to state
in the question what you already know or have tried ...

Paul Rakow


>I would just like to encourage more of the type of exchange I am used to...
>everyone whipping off actual facts (and periodic snail-mail bundles)
>without acting as if they were hocking the family jewels.

But surely these replies are not from people who are sending you hints
*instead of* actual facts which they're hoarding - it's people who have
no concrete facts on your people, but are trying to help you find out for
yourself.


X-Message:
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 13:06:45 -0800
Reply-To: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
Sender: Methods and resources for genealogy <>
From: Emily Lacey <>
Organization: RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative
Subject: Re: Replies are Nice. . . but

In article <4j7lo8$>, (Tom
Camfield) wrote:

> Not a big complaint or anything. But lately I have been getting more and
> more hem-haw replies...those that don't include any real information but
> tell me where to find it by phoning, writing, whatever...

In a way, I understand what Tom is saying--or at least what I hear Tom
saying. I have several megs of information sources of where I can get
information about the families I am trying to get information about. Each
source will be glad to help me, all I have to do is write to them, and
they will be glad to send what they have--for a fee. I am a temporary
worker and the fees of $3 and $5 add up, and so far, I haven't had any
luck finding my actual family. Lot of people with the same last name, but
no one I can actually work into my family.
I haven't got the money to go to Virginia (I live in South Carolina) and
spend a week or two in a hotel while I search out the information I want,
and the sources there aren't able to take the time to do the research I
need done for free, nor can I afford to pay them (which would be fair) to
do it for me?

I guess, at times, I would love it if someone would just say, "OF COURSE!
I have all that information for you all compiled. Send me your snail mail
address and I'll mail it to you with all the documentation included."

So-if anyone knows the Woodhouses, Murdens, Shipps, McClannans in Princess
Anne County (which no longer exists), all in the late 1700's and 1800's
and wants to just send the information, SEND AWAY! I already know a bunch
of places to go to find the information which is, at least for now, out of
my reach.

Does anyone understand this? Did I make any sense?
I guess I'm frustrated.....

Emily Lacey


This thread: