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From:
Subject: Re: [GV] First settlers / Germans on the Volga - from Russia
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 15:45:56 -0600 (CST)
References: <380-22006119194714220@M2W078.mail2web.com>
In-Reply-To: <380-22006119194714220@M2W078.mail2web.com>
Vera,
I realize you have done extentive research into Volga Germans, but it
would be helpful if you cited the source of your information, as it always
depends on what perspective from which they are writing. Are you quoting
German Arthur or historian, Russian Arthur or historian each would have
different backgrounds and perspectives.
Ruth
> We have had these threads upteen times on the GR heritage List several
> years ago, but they seem to be new to this group and to the 'newbies',
> so, it might be worth repeating that of the original settlers,
> one-third were NOT farmers, nor was Catherine the Great especially
> inviting
> farmers.
>
> At first she just intended good stock immigrants to arrive from
> Europe, and they were intended to have been able to settle in
> any town they chose.
>
> While the recruitment was going on and while the immigrants on
> on high seas (or rather the Baltic), Catherine changed her
> intentions and decided that ALL new immigrants that were recruited
> were to settle the Volga and farm virgin territory.
>
> There were (as always in life) exceptions -
> 1) One lot settled in a village just south of St. Petersburg.
> 2) Required tradesmen/artisans were allowed to settle in
> Saratov town and start the 1st German colony there - now known as
> "German Street".... about 100
> 3) other tradespeople/traders/merchants/ were placed in
> Katherienenstadt, which was the 'chief' GR village
> and was meant to be the hub of economic life and its
> Samara-side trading centre.
>
> 4) The reason that even non-farmers were sent off to
> farming villages was Catherine decided that villages
> need more than just 'farmers', they also need school
> teachers, doctors, soldiers - etc.... because farming
> took only 6 months a year, and during the other 6 months
> of the year one needed cobblers, tailors, cart-wrights, etc.
> to form and develop a community.
>
> 5) Really bad 'untalented' men who couldn't make a go of
> farming were eventually released into the cities as
> wage earners to practice their trades.
>
> so long
>
> Vera
>
>
>
>
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: frank jacobs
> Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 06:16:58 -0600
> To:
> Subject: Re: [GV] Re: [GR-GENEALOGY] Good Article to read, told about her
> ancestor who was German from Russia
>
>
> Greetings,
>
> I'm not about perpetuating myths about the "best" farmers every, but the
> ones who survived had to innovate and learned farming to survive. I
> remember in Weigel's papers there was a description of the first German
> individuals arriving on the steppes, including various tradesmen who
> incidentally would not get to practice their trades. Here stood a
> wigmaker
> and here stood a (?) with an old Kalmluth horse. So this is the paradise
> the agents promised us. Some didn't have a clue.
> They would become farmers out of necessity or die. However they were
> people
> on an area needing population. One of the Russian poets later made the
> comment, somewhat paraphrased, A German can take a willow twig and make
> it
> grow in sand.
>
> Some were creative and innovators, perhaps because they were not locked
> into
> the century old farming traditions of the Russian peasant? There were
> those
> who became the owners of the large steam threshing machines that arrived
> in
> Russia at the end of the 19th century.
>
> But this was over multigenerational timelines. The old comments, for the
> first generation there was death, the next hunger and the third bread. In
> the interim, they were available cannon fodder on a wild expanding
> frontier,
> even if not in the Russian Army.
>
> Frank Jacobs
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jerry Frank" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 7:10 PM
> Subject: [GV] Re: [GR-GENEALOGY] Good Article to read, told about her
> ancestor who was German from Russia
>
>
>> At 04:06 PM 08/01/2006, you wrote:
>>
>>><http://www.denverpost.com/style/ci_3368674>http://www.denverpost.com/styl
> e/ci_3368674
>>
>>
>>
>> Once again we have to fight the error of German Russian lore. The
> article
>> quotes author Tom Noel who writes,""These Germans, known as some of the
>> world's best farmers, had been brought to Russia by Empress and Czarina
>> Catherine the Great to farm the Volga valley." It appears that Mr. Noel
>> has not taken the time to research his comment and has relied on well
>> established GR lore.
>>
>> First of all, where is the evidence that the WORLD thought that the
>> Germans were the best of farmers? The only claims for this that I have
>> ever seen comes from the Germans themselves. That is not to say that
>> these Germans were NOT good farmers but why the gloating attitude?
>>
>> Secondly, Catherine did not invite just Germans. She invited ALL
>> Europeans to come farm this land. It is therefore clear that she did
>> not
>> consider the German skills to be anything special or at the very least,
>> not important enough to consider with respect to her objectives.
>>
>> Sorry to keep harping on this topic but it seems that the only way to
>> change the lore is to keep repeating the truth.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jerry Frank - Calgary, Alberta
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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