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From: "Hutchcraft, Bob & Gail" <>
Subject: [GERMAN-NOBILITY] Re to Stephen Knott: GERMAN-NOBILITY Digest,Vol 3, Issue 30
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 09:49:25 -0600
References: <mailman.47.1227859211.11591.german-nobility@rootsweb.com><BAY123-W5589C20EA419F313EDB758B9040@phx.gbl>


Stephen: In case you missed my first request on this site, my
g-g-grandfather, George Marquis Hahn, b. 1818, Saxony. A fellow researcher
indicates that the spelling of MARQUIS indicates nobility; any input on
this? Gail Hahn Hutchcraft.
Ford County, Illinois genealogy volunteer.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Knott" <>
To: <>; <>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 6:34 AM
Subject: Re: [GERMAN-NOBILITY] GERMAN-NOBILITY Digest, Vol 3, Issue 30



The word Prince wasn't used at all until the 1800's, especially not in
titles! The only thing with the "von Deutschland" in the title name was
"Konig von Deutschland", or "Konigin von Deutschland" for women. The sons
and daughters were given the full title name of their father, not Prince or
Princess. So he would be Konig von Deutschland, or Queen is Koningin, "or de
jure Kaiser" that is all to say if He was so recognized by other Princely
families of the electoral college.

It was a regular practice however, for the Emperors of Germany to create
titles for lands that didn't previously have a Count or Prince over the
land. Creation of Grafschaften, Hertogdom etc, which would then create the
"von territoryname" titles, as were deemed necessary.

If the electoral college of Princes "within Germany", has again elected an
Emperor, and is recognized as Emperor elect by various factions, and princes
then he would be in effect Emperor over those who have made him such. If one
government isn't recognized as existing, like Palestinians that refuse to
acknowledge the existence of Israel, that is their prerogative.

Therefore depending on who or what you recognize it isn't up to us to say
whether it is necessary to now use one territory or another. Appelation
styles have changed much over the centuries, and each who has the authority
to make the modifications have done so, however this still seems pretty much
in line with history as well.

I see His Imperial and Royal Highness is listed as hereditary Duke of
Swabia, and I think this of the Wettinier line. In German he is
Herzog von Swabia, Herzog von Saxe-Altenburg, in English it would be Just
"Prince of"at the beginning, which again is only of recent usage. So if
you're combining both you have to write a rule, which are found here under
appellation styles: http://imperialcollegeofprincesandcounts.com

Stephen Knott

> From:
> Subject: GERMAN-NOBILITY Digest, Vol 3, Issue 30
> To:
> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 01:00:11 -0700
>
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Question (son Sj?berg)
> 2. Re: GERMAN-NOBILITY Fuschikowsky von Grunhof (Pam Greco)
> 3. Re: Fuschikowsky von Grunhof ()
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:28:27 +0000 (GMT)
> From: Johan R:son Sj?berg <>
> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-NOBILITY] Question
> To:
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I don't think there has been any "Princes of Germany" (Prinz von
> Deutschland). The German imperial family were princes and princesses of
> Prussia (Prinz und Prinzessin von Preussen). The German Emperor was King
> of Prussia and German Emperor.
>
> But perhaps you all know that already. :-)
>
> Sincerely,
> Johan R. Sj?berg
> Oslo, Norway
>
> --- Den m?n 2008-11-24 skrev Leo van de Pas <>:
>
> > Fr?n: Leo van de Pas <>
> > ?mne: Re: [GERMAN-NOBILITY] Question
> > Till:
> > Datum: m?ndag 24 november 2008 20.10
> > I do not know for sure but there is an organisation of
> > self-proclaimed
> > princes who sell titles, and this could be one of them.
> > Leo van de Pas
> > Canberra, Australia
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Carlos Fernando Knauer"
> > <>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:24 AM
> > Subject: GERMAN-NOBILITY] Question
> >
> >
> > > Hi.
> > > Who is H.I.R.H Prince Karl Friedrich von Deutschland ?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Carlos F. Knauer (Brazil)
> > >
> > > -------------------------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:19:45 -0600
> From: "Pam Greco" <>
> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-NOBILITY] GERMAN-NOBILITY Fuschikowsky von
> Grunhof
> To: <>
> Message-ID: <92D559014E0C4C728CC06ED93020548D@HP>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> My great great grandfather was Otto Fuschikowsky born abt 1850 and
> immigrated from Prussia abt 1872 to NY and settled in Wi. He is a
> descendent of Fuschikowsky von Grunhof. Do you have any info on this
> family. There crest was issued 1764 Fuschikowsky Singer. I believe they
> are
> Czech and Turkish.
>
> Pamela
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of
>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 2:00 AM
> To:
> Subject: GERMAN-NOBILITY Digest, Vol 3, Issue 29
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 11:38:54 -0500
> From:
> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-NOBILITY] Fuschikowsky von Grunhof
> To: ,
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Ernst Ignaz Fuschikowsky, a citizen of Teltsch (Telc) in Moravia, was
> given an Austrian (not Imperial) patent of nobility in 1764 with the
> predicate "von Gruenhof". In 1816 Joseph Fuschikowsky von Gruenhof, owner
> of the estate of Pollerskirchen, was made an Austrian hereditary Knight,
>
>
>
> Gilbert von Studnitz
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pam Greco <>
> To:
> Sent: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 7:19 am
> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-NOBILITY] GERMAN-NOBILITY Fuschikowsky von Grunhof
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> My great great grandfather was Otto Fuschikowsky born abt 1850 and
> immigrated from Prussia abt 1872 to NY and settled in Wi. He is a
> descendent of Fuschikowsky von Grunhof. Do you have any info on this
> family. There crest was issued 1764 Fuschikowsky Singer. I believe they
> are
> Czech and Turkish.
>
> Pamela
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of
>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 2:00 AM
> To:
> Subject: GERMAN-NOBILITY Digest, Vol 3, Issue 29
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> End of GERMAN-NOBILITY Digest, Vol 3, Issue 30
> **********************************************

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