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Archiver > GREATWAR > 2001-07 > 0994518105


From: "Tom Tulloch-Marshall" <>
Subject: Re: [WW1] Loos 13/10/15 + one for the "officer haters"
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 16:01:45 +0100
References: <20010627032627.98295.qmail@web9903.mail.yahoo.com> <001301c0ff0e$026878c0$fc217ad5@pshazgqf> <3B438976.CB393E8B@web.de> <007301c1057d$32f432c0$634b7ad5@pshazgqf> <03a701c105ac$91326f80$a89693c3@f2f9r6> <000f01c106cc$ff5462e0$58077ad5@pshazgqf> <00ad01c106d7$fd254ce0$34e193c3@f2f9r6>


John - some minor comments to your points (and I also confess to some
"prejudice" here - whilst your grandfather was taking part in the momentous
events west of Hulloch my grandfather was moving forward a little way to the
north, on 7th Division's front, south of the Hohenzollern Redoubt - both of
them were of course wearing the Cameron of Erracht tartan):-
>
"My grandfather was a sergeant at the time of Loos, with 9 years service.
His view was one of "..if only". Whilst Brigade may or may not have had good
reason for not pressing on, from his point of view it was a lost opportunity
which had far reaching results. Who really knows what would have happened if
the gap in the line had been exploited?"
>
### I agree with your grandfather, but only to a limited degree. The attack
by 1st Division 25/9/15 acheived tremendous (using the word as a relative
term) results against appaling odds - odds which were recognised in what may
to some be surprising quarters. First Army files at the PRO contain
correspondence from Sir Douglas Haig (OC 1st Army at the time) to GHQ in
which he is scathing about the "suitability" of the Loos plain as the
location for a British attack to support the proposed French Champagne
Offensive.

His condemnation of the proposal is set out in great detail in a secret
memoranum to CGS on the 27th May 1915, and after making a detailed study of
the area "on the ground" he submitted a further damning report on the 23rd
of June. Sir John French (you have to give him credit for this) took Haig's
appraisal of the situation on-board and wrote to General Joffre on July
29th. That letter (war diary, General Staff, 1st Army, PRO refs WO95/155 to
159 cover this period) told Joffre of the British concerns, assured him that
we all thought the French were terribly decent types and that there was
nothing we'd like better than to help them out, - BUT - even if we could
"succeed" at Loos all we would gain would be a few bits of hostile trench
which would leave us overlooked by the enemy in fortified positions and
vantage points atop the many slack heaps in the area (from "schlacke" -
German, coal-dross).

Joffre replied to Sir John 5/8/15, told him what a great bunch the French
thought we were, then dismissed his objections out of hand. The French were
of course "in command", so that was that - Loos went ahead despite gloomy
forcasts from the highest level on the British side - in fact the "success"
of units such as 1st Camerons and the rest of 1st Division, in the face of
such well recognised difficulties, is all the more remarkable.

To get back to your grandfather's view, - yes, a great oportunity to advance
was undoubtedly missed - BUT - there are two points here -

1) There simply werent the facilities available to allow such an advance to
take place - no "spare" troops (there was the debacle of the "witholding" of
the 21st and 24th Div reinforcements by French, but thats another story) and
they couldnt move the artillery forward across the fire-swept open
battlefield, so no close artillery support was available.

2) Imagine 1st Division had managed to advance - to the north of them the
attack had faltered at the Hohenzollern Redoubt and to the south the Germans
on Hill 70 had stopped the 15th Division. - 1st Division would have pushed a
salient into the enemy front and would have been open to hostile fire from
the north, east, and south. On the open flat ground of the plain they would
simply have been slaughtered.

regards
--
Tom Tulloch-Marshall
Great War Military Research

http://www.btinternet.com/~prosearch


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