HERBARZ-L Archives
Archiver > HERBARZ > 2001-03 > 0984192991
From:
Subject: Re: Gear at Grunwald - list from Zukowski
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 02:56:31 GMT
References: <saa8b3eb.073@mail.walterhav.com>
In-Reply-To: <saa8b3eb.073@mail.walterhav.com>
What this debate has lacked has been hard evidence. In order to
remove as far as possible any selective bias, I will go through each
of the artefacts shown in work.
p.5, end of C13 start of C14 ceremonial sword of Wl~adisl~aw
L~okietek. Of normal West European form it bears the arms of Poland
on a heater shield on the blade.
p.7, carved figure of C12 warrior (chessman?), Krakow. Shield of
what is normally considered Lithuanian type - which is interesting on
so early a figure. Conical helmet, crudely represented mail.
p.8, a seal of 1234 of Henryk Brodatek, shows a knight in conical
nasal helm and kite shield, long mail hoodedhauberk worn over long
gown. A similar figure appears on the C12 seal of the city of
Soissons [Martin p.18] though with a longer shield suitable to the
earlier date. A similar arrangement of hauberk over gown is shown on
the relief of St. George from the West doorway of Ferrara Cathedral
[Paul Martin, Armour and Weapons,p.23(Herbert Jenkins, London 1968].
p.9, a view from The Legend of St. Hedvig, the Ostro'w Codex, dates
to 1353 which has already been discussed at length.
p.11, C11 sword hilt of a normal patern.
p.12, a gold replica of the golden spear of St. Maurice presented to
Bolesl~aw Chrobry in 1000.
p.13, C10 biblical scene showing no particularly Oriental influence
and a C10 sword of normal Western type.
p.16 C11 illustration from the Ewangelisarium Pl~ockiiego shows
conical helms and kite shields. It could just as well be Anglo-Saxon
by the dress depicted.
p.17 C11 gold encrusted spear head and C10 axe head.
p. 18, C11 axe head.
p.19, C10 or C11 helmet of Wielkopolski type. The form, with a plume
holder atop it is more eastern, reminiscent of later Russian helmets.
This is the period of _Polands first orientation toward the West with
its Christianisation and dynastic links with Germany.
p.20, C11 or C12 helmet from Lake Orchowski of a type, as the authors
caption says, general in the whole of Europe.
p.22 a spur from near Wrocl~aw.
p.23, mid C12 bible scene, the Judas kiss, from the Ewangeliarza
Kruszwickiego. Unarmoured warriors with kite shields and conical
helmets or Phrygian caps similar to Western European scenes of the
same period.
PC13 bible scene from the Psalterium Nocturnum z Trebnicy shows
figures with large triangular shields with rounded top corners typical
of Western Europe at the same time. One of the figures wears a barrel
helm.
p.28. C12 door of Pl~ock shows three figures in mail shirt with coif
and nasal helm with bossed shield of triangular form, all entirely
Western.
End of the C13 miniature from the Codex Manese shows the Piast, Henryk
IV Probus, Duke of Silesia receiving a prize from a lady at a
tournament; the scene and details are entirely Western. The Duke
wears full mail and surcoat, his horse is caparisoned in his arms and
his crested helm is borne before him.
p.30, p.31, straight swords of the C!2 or C13 and C13, both entirely
Western in form.
p.32, mace and axe heads of C12 - C13 and C12. The latter is
interesting for its decoration which looks almost Scythian.
p.33, C13 spur from Le~czyca and an embossed figure of Goliath from
the last quarter of the C12 which shows bormal mail hauberk and kite
shield.
p.34, end of C13 seal of Przemysl II, King of Poland in full western
style mail with a conical helmet and a small kite shield bearing the
crowned eagle of Poland. What looks like an crest of an upside down
is almost certainly the dove of the Kholy Spirit descending upon him
as he also stands on the dragon of Paganism or Heresy.
p.36, Seal of Siemomysl~of Kujavia, 1267-1284. He carries a
rectangular shield with a raised central portion, a type normally
thought of as Lithuanian. He has a short mail shirt with what looks
like a scale fauld (skirt). He has a conical helm and a straight
sword.
p.37. Funerary sculpture of Henryk Probus of Silesia of about 1300,
shown fully armoured and bearing his armorial shield, this figure is
entirely Western.
p.41, the imae from the Legend of St, Hedvig that has been discussed
at length previously.
p.43, a worn funerary engraving more than relief from the start of the
start of C14 that shows a knight, Pakosl~awa z Mstyczowa, of the herb
Lis, in full mail with reinforcements to his shins in the |best
||Western fashion of the time.
p.44, A miniature from the C14 Biblii z Suchej, which shoes knights in
entirely Western gear and as the author notes in his caption, one in a
kapalin (kettle helmet)equally popular in the West.
p.46, C14 and C15 axe heads.
p. 49, a C13 or C14 spur from Le~czyca of a type dominant in Poland
according to the author.
p.50, beginning of C14 seal of Bernard of Schweidnitz, 1307-1325,
wearing a coat of plates over his armour. The coat of polates was a
typically german fashion and one that did notlast particularly long.
The shield and crested helm are those of Silesia.
p.51, A funerary carving of 1317 of Bolka I Chalebnego of Silesia
showing a typical heraldic surcoat and shield with the arms of
Silesia. The great helm bears the peacock fan crest of Silesia but in
this view it is clear that there are two crests, one either side of
the crown of the helmet.
p.52, Two very interesting items for our debate: first a bascinet
from Sandomierz, "most probably of the time of Casimir the Great",
according to the author. This actually surviving item bears the
vervelles (points where the camail was fixed) and a hole where the
German style, klappvisier, was fitted. This sort of visor, where the
thing lifted up on a single fitting at the top, "was rarely seen
outside Germany", according tp Christopher Gravett in, German Medieval
Armies (Osprey, London 1985). Secondly, a Masovian coin of 1341
shows a mounted warrior with a rectangular shield in what looks like
lamelar lamellar armour and a conical helmet with mail coif or
aventail. Lamelar was not unknown in contemporary Germany the overall
effrect is by no means typically Western.
p.53, A statue of Henryk IV of Wrocl~aw circa 1350 is entirely Western
in appearance.
p.54, A funerary sculpture of Bolka II Mal~ego of circa 1380 shows the
typically German feature of a retaining chain or martingale from a
boss on the breast to the sword (though its is known elsewhere) and is
otherwise entirely Western.
p.57, a funerary sculpture of 1373 of Przemysl~aw of Cieszyn, said by
the author to be "characteristic" of the period and might be from any
part of Western Europe.
p.68, an illusration from the Gelre Armorial of the later C14 of the
arms of the Polish King, Louis the Hungarian of the House of Anjou.
The shield helm and crest are of standard heraldic form.
p.72, is an heraldic achievment from the start of C15 (Ksie~dze
Brackiej sw. Krzystofa z Arlbergu w Tyrolu).
p.76, an illustration from the same source as the above showing the
complete achievements of Sulima and Junosz.
p.77 shows the polish section of the Gelre Armorial (later C!4) by the
herolde of Gelders, Claes Heinen. The complete achievements including
helms and crests fifteen clans are shown.
p.78, a C14 drawing of the arms and crest of Bogoria from the bible of
archbishop Jaroslaw .
p.80, an engraved biblical scene from the second quarter C13 made for
Duke Conrad of Masovia. One of Herods soldiers (?) is shown in
western from head to toe. His upper torso may be protected by
lamellar armour but it is unclear.
p.83, a seal of Mieszko the Old, second half C12. The armour is that
of any western prince and he bears a flat topped kite shield and a
gonfanon.
p.84, two decorative figures of knights in flat topped helms - not
barrel helms -from the second quarter of C13, with large kite shields
bearing in the one case where the face is visible, an heraldic design
of three bends dexter. The panoply is entirely Western.
p.85, A seal of Mikolaj Zie~bicki 1343-1356. Barrel helm, crest,
heater shield, sword and heraldic caparison are all entirely Western.
.
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