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Archiver > HERBARZ > 2001-03 > 0985147650
From:
Subject: Re: Gear at Grunwald
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 04:26:49 GMT
References: <sab72de4.015@mail.walterhav.com>
In-Reply-To: <sab72de4.015@mail.walterhav.com>
The period of the break-up of Common Slavic is normally taken to
correspond to the migration period of Slav expansion from c.500 A.D.
to c.900 A.D.. The language must have gone through a stage in which
West, East and South Slav underwent their characteristic changes
before differentiating in turn into the modern Slavonic languages.
As for chleb and dom, I am afraid that as a layman I am dependent
upon my sources. The one I have to hand is Mallory who on this point
quotes Gijmbutas (Mallory, In Search of the Indo-Europeans, p. 79
(ISBN 0-500-27616-1)).
The point at issue was whether there was a continuity of Sarmatian
influence upon Poland through to the High Middle Ages and I think that
there quite obviously was not. The Sarmatians themselves had been
erased from the map of Central Europe in the 4th Century except, for
the Iazygian remnnant of Hungary. That subsequent distinct nomad
cultures influenced both Slav culture seems highly likely though these
would not have been specifically Sarmatian influences but rather from
the various distinct nomad cultures that dominated the Ukraine and
Hungary. However by 1410 the dominant culture in Central Europe had
for some centuries been that of Latin Christendom. The iconography of
the period points incontrovertibly to a predominance of Western styles
at the courts the Kings of Poland. That the images we have from
Masovia show Eastern rather than Western costume supports the point.
Why would one assume that the seals of West Polish rulers were
fanciful, foreign creations when works of similar style and quality
from Masovia show Eastern garb? Are foreigners there better informed?
Both or neither can be trusted. If however, we are to distrust all
evidence, on what can basis can any opinion be offered?
To trace the styles of Sarmatism back as a continuous tradition to
the historical Sarmatians is as fallacious as attributing the
Classical helmets of Napoleon's Dragooons and Cuirassiers to a
continuity from Classical Rome that Medieval invention had obscured
from the artistic record!
Matejko seems to have himself conceded that his artistic purposes
had led him to interpolate much later styles from the period of the
Commonwealth into the Grunwald painting. His rendering of the Germans
is hardly better. Sarmatia, like Britannia, was a useful cognomen for
a recent Union of hitherto disparate peoples and around each there
developed a common loyalty, ethos and culture. In the age of
nationalism that Union was projected into a common History that
simplified and oscured the complex and diverse roots of the State.
As I first lowered my lance in this thread in the cause of his
brainchilds academic honour , it is only fair that I end with the
opinion of Ryszart Brzezinski himself:
>indeed it's true - there are only a few bits of scrap-iron
>purporting to be armour from Polish finds. No complete suits at all.
>However, knowing Poland's violent history - what do you expect?
>
>As for Polish gear being Eastern in character in this period - well
>that's clearly only the case in eastern areas bordering on Lithuania -
>in particular Mazowsze. In these areas scale armour is well
>attested, as are pointy Eastern-style shlom helmets.
>There's little evidence for Pancerni-style gear in Poland until the
>mid-16th century.
>R.Z.Brzezinski. Mon, 12 Mar 2001
Regards,
John (Rohde).
P.S.
Ryszart's latest book on the Battle of Lutzen should be in the shops
very soon and I can heartily recommend it as a dramatic and original
reconstruction of a crucial C17th conflict at which one of the
Commonwealth's most formidable foes met his nemesis.
J.R.
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