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From:
Subject: "Hoisted with his own Petar(d)" :-)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 07:52:22 EDT


Dear List,

Leon Stevens wrote upon his keyboard:

<<The few Poles on the list probably helped with "criticisms." Lukowski
writes his name as "Jerzy" rather than "George," which Frost should have
noticed had he read Lukowski. >>>

It seems that someone has again "hoisted [himself] with his own petar(d)"
(coined by William Shakespeare in _Hamlet_).

In debating one uses facts to prove points. Let the facts speak for
themselves, Frost cites (on one of his twenty pages of his bibliography):

J.T. Lukowski. _Liberty's Folly: The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in the
Eighteenth Century_. London: 1991.

SOOOO....I think it is safe to say that Robert Frost must have read at least
one of Lukowski's books. And John Rohde has provided the prrof that Robert's
wife also knew his name was Jerzy.

Now let's examine Frost's preface:

"There is no satisfactory solution to the problem of personal and place names
in a work in English on east European history. I have tried to balance the
conflicting claims of consistency and comprehensibility for readers
unacquainted with east European languages. With regards to personal names,
where an adequate English equivalent exists I have used it for the first
names of ruling princes and members of royal families. Otherwise I use the
Polish, German, Ukranian, or Russian form where appropriate...With regards to
place names, whenever possible I have used the modern equivalent...All
translations from Polish, Latin, French, German, and Italian are my own.
(Frost, Robert. _After the Deluge: Poland-Lithuania and the Second Northern
War 2655-1660_. New York: University of Cambridge Press, 1998, xi).

George is the English equivalent of Jerzy.

Zbigniew has no English counterpart so it was left in the original Polish.

I rest my case.

"In alio peduclum vides, in te ricinum non vides" - Petronius

Margaret Odrowaz-Sypniewski

<<In a message dated 4/27/01 1:08:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
(Leon Stevens)writes:

<< Apparently Frost doesn't read Polish, because if he did, he would know
that very many Polish historians from Lozinski to Lukowski have described the
incompetence of the "ruszenie" and the failures of units on a permanent, if
tenuous, payroll. The Polish word for "army" is "wojsko" from the Common
Slavic "woj(na)" ("war"), and the archaic neuter adjectival suffix "-sko."
It most literally means "war thing," formerly generally applied to a large
force led by a king or hetman against an invasion. >>
<><><><><><><><>><>><><
So as to keep things straight in your minds:

<<VONDOERING (Margaret Odrowaz-Sypniewski) stated:

Leon?

Are we speaking of Robert I. Frost, lecturer in the Department of History,
King's College, London? In his book _After the Deluge_ printed by Cambridge
Press, he cites the help of the following people:

1. Professor Geoffrey Parker of St Andrews
2. Professor Norman Gash his writing teacher.
3. Professor Norman Davies (who was one of his editors)
4. Professor Josef Gierowski of Jagiellon University
5. The late Professor Adam Kersten
6. Dr. Lindsey Hughes
7. Professor Helli Koenigsberger
8. Dr. George Lukowski
9. Dr Derek McKay
10.Liz Embowska
11.Dr. Hamish Scott
12.Jane Sunderland
13.Dr. Frank Sysyn
14.Professor Zbigniew Wojcik
15.Dr. Adam Homecki, director of the Czartoryski Library in Cracow.
All are listed as helping with "comments and criticisms," and advisors.

Let's see...that makes 15 scholars plus himself, seems to me that an errors
would have been well scutinized don't you. :-)





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