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Archiver > HERBARZ > 2004-08 > 1092850863


From: "David Zincavage" <>
Subject: Re: [herbarz] Konstantynowicz from Grodno "uezd"
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:41:58 -0700
References: <2409A35B3E1C8D4D929583798DF5AA7803595517@whmail01.walterhav.com>


Augmentation of coats of arms in commemoration of a new feat of arms or
other service was a well-known heraldic practice. I personally don't
believe that we in the United States, lacking ready access to, or long
personal experience in, actual research in Polish historic documents are in
a terribly good position to judge exactly how comprehensive Trelinska's
Album is in every area, whether heraldic augmentations were recorded in
Chancery records, or in what kind and form, and what precisely all the
customs of the Commonwealth kings were. Certainly, the heraldic literature
is full of legendary accounts of Polish arms being augmented or impaired as
the result of this or that event or action. Legends of the origns of
Polish arms are typically set in impossibly early periods of time, but they
do make it clear that Polish heraldists believed a lot of things Mr. Stevens
is disinclined to accept: that non-royal military commanders could confer
arms, that arms could be modified, that a king, prince, or commander might
share his own arms or a portion of his arms with someone.

I do myself think that the origins, and histories, of Polish arms are
diverse, that those origins and histories are not reducible to a single
uniform model, and that they are not all property marks inherited from
Sarmatian prehistory. Sabres may be seen in Zl/otorzek, Bojomir, Ulanicki,
Bakalowicz, Szabla, Mohyla, Kal/uszowski, Sietkiewicz, Chodkiewicz,
Samsonowicz, Husarzewski, Brzozowicz, L/ada, Zagl/oba, Zdan, Pogl/om,
Walewski, Hrabia Walewski, Tarak, some versions of Pogon Litewska, Trupia
Gl/owa, Szampach, Spensberger, Chodkiewicz, Lotarynczyk, Smett (in
Chrzanski).

It is unlikely to be possible decisively either to confirm or discredit a
centuries old account of this kind. I don't myself think it is impossible
for it to be true. When we study Polish clan arms, at a very early stage we
are astonished at the proliferation of variant forms, particularly of
versions of standard arms with additions. Some heraldic scholars just look
at all this, wave a hand dismissively, and say: "Well, you see, there were
formerly more heraldic clans, and many which resembled one another became
amalgamated. And, the system was unregulated, so Pan So-and-so-ski was
probably just feeling individualistic one day, and decided to add that
hippogriff." In many cases, I expect these explanations are probably true,
but if one were to suppose that some odmiany came into existence as the
result of augmentation, that would certainly make sense.





----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stevens" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:41 AM
Subject: RE: [herbarz] Konstantynowicz from Grodno "uezd"


> Trelinska's work Album armorum nobilium Regni Poloniae XV-XVIII saec.
> records most of the ennoblements, noble naturalizations, confirmations
> of nobility etc. given out by the Royal Chancellery from the 14th
> through 18th centuries. Some authorities, such as Gorzynski, for
> example, believe that Trelinska's Album is fairly comprehensive, but
> since many records of the Chancellery were lost and by her own admission
> the author also relied on secondary sources such as armorials, diaries,
> histories, etc., I don't see how it can be absolutely comprehensive.
> However the records of Jan Zamoyski's Chancellery (records from Stefan
> Bathory's reign) were available to her. It was not the custom of
> Commonwealth kings to issue special awards such as orders or
> modifications and decorations for coats of arms. This does not include
> offices and the 3 orders of knighthood approved by the Sejm and bestowed
> during the late 19th century. No historians or heraldic scholars
> mention any honors resulting in modifications of existing coats of arms.
> Had Bathory's chancellery taken such an extraordinary step, Trelinska
> would surely have made a note of it. Rather, she states on p.23 that
> indigenous Polish coats of arms issued to new nobles seldom varied from
> the common traditional forms, with the notable exception of the 30
> Jelita variants awarded by Chancellor Zamoyski. Even the Chancellor
> himself received no unusual honors from his lifetime friend the king,
> although the monarch showered him with high offices and a considerable
> amount of real estate. As David has mentioned, no published heraldic
> source illustrates the augmentation you describe, nor mentions the honor
> it represents. The heraldic sources owned by or available to Mr.
> Zincavage and me are quite extensive, not to mention that histories are
> silent about it. Claims of special honors and awards by this or that
> king are common in recent family histories, but even the heralds who
> record them such as Dziadulewicz, for example, are also frank in stating
> that they seriously doubt the authenticity of these claims. For
> example, a family history of one of this list's members claims that an
> ancestor received from King Zygmunt August the augmentation of a swan in
> his COA for having swum across the Dniepr River during some battle,
> which story Dziadulewicz regards as probably fictitious. So my opinion
> about your augmentation is not a judgment, it's merely a caution based
> on all of the above. Armorials do confirm that certain Konstantynowiczes
> were noble, using the Lis, Jelita and and Radwan arms. During the reign
> of Bathory the saber was in universal use in the Commonwealth, but
> sabers do not occur in traditional Polish-Lithuanian heraldry. They
> appear mostly in recent arms bestowed by the Russian czar. Crossed
> medieval swords, swords crossing arrows, crossed arrows, swords
> intersecting or tangent to arrows etc. are freuent, but they have no
> meaning they are merely pictographs replacing the abstract lines of
> earlier property mark. Compare for example the purely abstract
> Zabienski charge with a cross-shape intersecting a line with angled
> extremities, with the partly pictographic crossed arrows of the Pylinski
> charge. By the way a "mullet" is a heraldic star, usually six-pointed.
>
>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pavel Konstantinovich [mailto:]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 2:41 AM
> To:
> Subject: [herbarz] Konstantynowicz from Grodno "uezd"
>
>
> Thank you David and Steven, for your messages.
>
> DZ> There were three suitably timed opportunities for military service:
>
> DZ> In 1577, the city of Gdansk/Dantzig was in rebellion against Batory,
>
> DZ> recognizing the Emperor Maximilian II, his electoral rival two years
>
> DZ> earlier, as King of Poland. After unsuccessful offensive military
> DZ> operations against a Polish garrson in Tczew in April and against
> DZ> Elblag in September, the Gdansk burghers made peace and swore
> DZ> allegiance to Batory in December. In Spring 1577, the Tartars
> DZ> invaded the Southeastern borderlands of the Commonwealth. And the
> DZ> same year, Ivan IV Grozny invaded and occupied Livonia/Inflanty.
> I believe that last two possibilities from three you mentioned are most
> probable. As I know from history of Grodno and Lithuanian szlachta in
> general it is most likely they should participate in some events related
> to GDL not to "Korona". But I can guess only of course.
>
> DZ> The additions to the former Konstantynowicz coat of arms would be
> DZ> referred to as an augmentation. Unfortunately, published sources do
>
> DZ> not seem to record this new Lis variation or to supply any
> DZ> illustration. There was a Partition era nobility confirmation: in
> DZ> 1861, Antoni, son of Dominik, and his sons Stanislaw, Josef. Jan,
> DZ> and Aleksander from the gubernya of Grodno, which will almost
> DZ> certainly feature an illustration of some version of a coat of arms.
> It is real funny you mentioned these people because I`m speaking exactly
> (!) about them. This is family from "okolica" Tolloczki in Grodno uezd.
> The first case about confirming of nobility of this family was in 1817.
> Sons of Antoni prolonged this case in 1830s and 1850s and the file (I
> have copy) was finished finally in 1873.
>
> There is 122 pages in case and some of them are about Revision Committee
> which was checking all documents. As you know it was not so easy to
> proof your "szlachestwo" during all XIX. May be it was more easy in
> beginning of XIX and MUCH difficult in second half of XIX. For example,
> on of Mickiewicz family from Oszmyana district (from my mother branch)
> tried to do it from 1839 till 1863 and couldn`t do it at the end due to
> bureaucratic obstacles. It was a lot of local witnesses including
> Oszmyana Marshal of Nobility confirming its nobility and there were
> documents but it didn`t help. It is not a secret that Russian
> Administration tried a lot to discharge most of nobility in present
> Belarus territory and transfer them to "odnodworcy" and peasants. So if
> Revision Committee would have any chance to do it they would do it, this
> is without any doubt. So I can`t agree with you, Steven! No doubts as
> well that Konstantynowiczes presented original document or copy of
> "priwilej" at least in 1817 and revisors checking it later didn`t find
> it suspicious.
>
> In the end most part of this family were transferred to "odnodworec" or
> peasants as participants of rebellion of 1863-1864. And only one of them
> stayed as "szlachticz" till beg.of XX.
>
> David, could you please tell me in what source you found Antoni, son of
> Dominik and his sons?
>
> Steven, do I understand correctly your opinion that if the family is not
> in Trelinska`s work it means that they were not nobles? What are other
> works you trust to?
>
> DZ> I would tend to think that the ostrich and helmet verbiage is just a
>
> DZ> boiler-plate reference to the standard Polish-Lithuanian crest. If
> DZ> I had no illustration or written blason to work with, and were
> DZ> trying to reconstruct this variation from this reference alone, I
> DZ> would place the two swords crossed below a mullet on the right of
> DZ> the field, equivalent in size to the twice-crossed Lis arrow.
> Sorry for my English. What is "mullet"?
>
> DZ> Interpretting the augmentation, one could theorize that the two
> DZ> swords might represent the military services of two brothers, and
> DZ> the star above might signify a successful military engagement.
>
> Best regards,
> Pawel A. Konstantynowicz
>
>
>
>
>

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