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Archiver > INPCRP > 2002-12 > 1039191858


From: Ernie & Connie Lasley <>
Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Old Catholic cemeteries.
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:24:18 -0600
References: <F165W4HuPaNChRm8TXX000046f3@hotmail.com><001601c29d36$4cb1a2e0$cb50bf3f@r4t9y9><002b01c29d25$031d5540$420377d8@pavilion>
In-Reply-To: <010b01c29d44$87ddeb40$e235a3d8@default>


Hello All,

Rich Green was right when he said it would seem to suggest a directive from
church officials rather than just isolated incidences of this. In
Princeton IN, the Catholic church has an old abandoned cemetery, left
untended when the new St. Joseph Catholic Cemetery came into being after
the turn of the century. The Diocese still owns it we think, but try
tracking down those records if you want a real records search challenge!

The families who could afford it re-enterred loved ones in the new
cemetery. Some who could not afford it just moved the stones. What was
left just grew up with weeds & brush, and over the years the surrounding
property owners began to claim the ground as theirs. Recently it was
surveyed using an 1890 land description, and a house is built on top of
part of the old cemetery, a power line crosses another part, and the rest
was claimed as the front yard of another house. Not wishing to mow around
or over what stones and remnants left there, most were tossed over a fence
into a woods or covered with dirt. Some descendants of those buried there
have been working with the Catholic church on this problem for 3 years.

Ernie

At 10:28 AM 12/06/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>Sue, What an eye opening email. I am just horrified to think my
>great-great- grandfather's grave maybe one of those destroyed in El Dorado
>County. I may never find his grave. It is just so shocking that a church
>would do that. Although we have an old Catholic cemetery in our township
>that we can not get the Church to acknowledge ownership. I hope this is not
>representative of the majority of Catholic churches.
>Marge in Michigan
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Sue Silver <>
>To: <>
>Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 6:42 AM
>Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Anyone with St. Louis ancestors?
>
>
>: I can speak from experience that what occurred in St. Louis at the hand of
>: the Catholic Diocese was not an isolated incident. A similar removal of
>: tombstones occurred in Placerville in El Dorado County, CA in the early
>: 1960s so that the Church could build a "new" modern church. The cemetery
>: was bulldozed of monuments and the modern (read ugly) church was built
>over
>: the graves which remained in the ground.
>:
>: In other parts of California (to this day), the Catholic Church has abused
>: and/or abandoned many historic consecrated cemeteries. The most recent
>one
>: that I am aware of is a small cemetery just down the road from one of the
>: early California Missions. It was reported that the Church was intending
>to
>: sell the land for development. Purportedly the sale would occur without
>: removal of the remains.
>:
>: In 1997, we had to threaten the Bishop of the Sacramento Diocese in order
>to
>: get him to respond in defense of a previously abandoned Catholic cemetery
>in
>: El Dorado County. It was one of two consecrated Catholic cemeteries the
>: diocese had abandoned over the years in this county. A third was signed
>: over to State Parks for the Marshall Gold Discovery State Historic Park in
>: Coloma. We told the bishop that if he didn't take care of St. Michael's,
>: that we would publish a brochure telling about six other abandoned
>Catholic
>: cemeteries and would distribute them by hand outside the parish churches
>: around Sacramento. Shortly thereafter the Church sued Pacific Bell, the
>: County of El Dorado and a residential homebuilder which had taken three
>home
>: lots from land owned by the Church.
>:
>: I'm not Catholic bashing when I write this. I'm just calling it the way I
>: see it. At the time we were trying to help St. Michael's, the Church was
>: distributing beautiful new brochures that said the Church takes care of
>you
>: in death as in life. Don't trust your deceased loved ones to private
>: cemeteries who don't care about you or your families. Because of what we
>: knew the Church was doing elsewhere, we gave some thought to filing a
>class
>: action lawsuit for breach of promise and fraudulent advertising. In the
>end
>: we used our energy and funds to restore the cemetery to some sense of
>: respectability.
>:
>: It just seems to us that the main and primary bottom line when it comes to
>: operating cemeteries still in active use, is money. It's not about
>respect.
>: It's not about morality. It's about running a lucrative business. In the
>: case of the Catholic Church, when the cemeteries no longer became
>: profitable, it would seem they just walked away.
>:
>: In other instances of which I am aware, they have also actively recycled
>the
>: old graves without removing the old remains. This has and is happening in
>: another gold rush community south of here.
>:
>: No matter who does these things, it just tears at the moral fabric of our
>: society. I, for one, am not willing to look the other way. If they do it
>: and I find out, it is going to be reported. It's a matter of common
>decency
>: and respect. It's everybody's business.
>:
>: Sue Silver
>: CA
>: ----- Original Message -----
>: From: "Sumap10" <>
>: To: <>
>: Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 6:46 AM
>: Subject: Re: [INPCRP] Anyone with St. Louis ancestors?
>:
>:
>: > Jon, how common a practice is this? To me, it's even worse than some
>big
>: > development obtaining the land; at least greed is understandable. It
>: would
>: > be extremely hard for me to believe that the Catholic church was unable
>to
>: > raise enough money to care for graves. It sounds like "could care less"
>: to
>: > me, which is despicable coming from an organization committed to souls,
>: both
>: > now and in the future.
>: >
>: > After these articles appeared, do you know if there was any public
>outcry?
>: >
>: > MaryAlice
>: >
>: > ----- Original Message -----
>: > From: jon andrews <>
>: > To: <>
>: > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 8:15 PM
>: > Subject: [INPCRP] Anyone with St. Louis ancestors?
>: >
>: >
>: > > After many years of searching, my wife has discovered what happened to
>: > some
>: > > of her family in St. Louis. I thought you might find the following
>most
>: > > interesting, especially the quotes by Rev. James R. Hartnett. My wife
>is
>: > now
>: > > searching for his stone, which might very well end up in the
>Mississippi
>: > > River on the way home!
>: > >
>: > > http://genealogyinstlouis.accessgenealogy.com/molner.htm
>: > >
>: > >
>: > > Jon Andrews
>: > >
>: >
>: >
>: >
>: >
>: > ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>: > Please do not send queries through this list.
>: >
>: >
>:
>:
>: ==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>: If we cannot respect the dead, how can we respect the living?
>:
>
>
>==== INPCRP Mailing List ====
>If we cannot respect the dead, how can we respect the living?

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