IRELAND-L ArchivesArchiver > IRELAND > 2007-03 > 1173209614
From: "Jean R." <>
Subject: Re: [IRELAND] - Careers for Irishmen Provided by India/Resource -Pension Records Resource --BritishIrish Army Births in India1864 - Thin Air?
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 11:33:34 -0800
SNIPPET: India provided a career for Irishmen of all classes and religious
denominations. Key figures in the extension of British rule included
Laurence SULIVAN (1713-86) born in Co. Cork, dominant from the 1750s in the
affairs of the East India Company, and the Co. Antrim landowner, George
MACARTNEY (1737-1806), later Earl MACARTNEY of Lisanoure, who as governor of
Madras 1780-5 reformed the financial administration of the territory.
During the Indian Mutiny (1857) Sir Henry LAWRENCE (1806-57), educated at
Foyle College, Derry, won fame for his defence of Lucknow. His brother John
(1811-79) later viceroy of India 1863-9 and 1st Lord LAWRENCE, presided
over the reimposition of order in the Punjab, in which the Dublin-born Brig.
Gen. John NICHOLSON (1821-57) played a prominent and ruthless part. Later
Sir Michael O'DWYER (1864-1940), son of a Catholic landed family from Co.
Tipperary, was lieutenant governor of the Punjab 1913-20, where he directed
the vigorous supp!
ression of protest, including the shooting dead of at least 379 Indians at
Amritsar, 13 April 1919. The Ulster-born Sir Claude AUCHINLECK (1884-1981)
was the last commander-in-chief of the Indian army (1943-7) overseeing the
transition to independence and partition. Irishmen also made up a
significant proportion of the army rank and file on which British power
The introduction from 1855 of recruitment by competitive examination opened
the way for enthusiastic Irish participation in the Indian civil service.
Between 1855 and 1863, 24 per cent of recruits were Irish, compared to less
than 5 percent before 1850. Recruitment was reduced after 1864 by new
procedures deliberately designed to favour entry from English public schools
rather than Irish universities or English 'crammers.' Between 1880 and 1914
between 5 and 10 percent of recruits were Irish. Despite this narrowing of
overall opportunity, Irish recruitment became over time less aristocratic
and more middle class, while the proportion of Catholics rose from 8 per
cent in 1855-84 to 30 percent in 1885-1914.
Indian grievances attracted some attention from the Nationalist party,
particularly F. H. O'DONNELL (1848-1916), MP for Dungarvan and brother of an
Indian civil servant, who in 1883 proposed that Dadabhai NAOROJI of the
Indian National Congress be found an Irish parliamentary seat. Later there
were inconclusive contacts between Congress and Sinn Fein. On the other
side Edward CARSON -- Lord CARSON of Duncairn (1854-1935) Unionist leader
born in Dublin into a liberal, professional family -- and other Unionists
gave unreserved support to O'DWYER's administration of the Punjab, on the
grounds that failure to support firm action in India would weaken the
struggle against militant nationalism in Ireland.
-- Excerpts, COOK, S. B., 'The Irish Raj: Social Origins and Careers of
Irishmen in the Indian Civil Service,' "Journal of Social History," 20/3
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean R." <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [IRELAND] IGI (index) - Pension Records Resource --BritishIrish
Army Births in India 1864 - Thin Air?
> Hi John -- LEADBEATER surname , have you found some Quakers in your line?
> Did you mean 1864 or 1867-- looking at your subject line versus your post.
> Lots of information on the web, but have you found a Rootsweb list or
> that relate to your subject (British Army) with (hopefully) researchers
> more expertise to help answer your specific questions about the British
> Army? <snip>
> Original Message -----
> From: "John Leadbeater" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 2:00 AM
> Subject: [IRELAND] British Irish Army Births in India 1864 - Thin Air?
>> Hi list,
>> For some years now I have been trying to trace the source records for the
>> birth of my ancestor, Henrietta Gould, born to George and Elizabeth Gould
>> in Moradabad, Bengal, India 05.04.1867.
>> The IGI contains the details which are corroborated in subsequent census
>> and registration records. However these subsequent records would not have
>> been readily available to the IGI submitter but, according to the IGI, no
>> source or submitter details are available.
>> However, the accuracy of the IGI record made me believe it had been taken
>> from the source record, but what and where could it be? I have visited
>> Joyce House and was told the index would be with the GRO. The GRO say
>> their records would commence with the Army Act registrations ... .
>> John Leadbeater,
>> Newton Kyme