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From: Pádraig Mór Ó Gealagáin <>
Subject: Re: Take some names :Re: Surely you.........& U.C.C. : .Re: [LMK] Re: Murtagh & Martin
Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 13:26:06 -0400
References: <010b01c54e8a$4f34f050$777a2544@pharmchemrop5s> <002a01c54e91$d4877a00$f072fea9@server> <002301c54eb0$f40fe460$2101a8c0@nytjxzpkk1v6ap> <004f01c54eb2$900ddce0$f072fea9@server> <006901c54eb5$0f0e7520$2101a8c0@nytjxzpkk1v6ap> <002601c54f3b$e97438e0$6501a8c0@PaddyGalligan> <001e01c54f4e$a49af7f0$2101a8c0@nytjxzpkk1v6ap> <005801c54f61$80580000$6501a8c0@PaddyGalligan> <000901c55026$cc273cb0$2101a8c0@nytjxzpkk1v6ap>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr. Jane Lyons" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday May 03, 2005 5:26 PM
Subject: Take some names :Re: Surely you.........& U.C.C. :
.Re: [LMK] Re: Murtagh & Martin


> Pádraig,
> I am not trying to argue with you here - this is
discussion.......
>
SNIP>
> The name that you have given as confirmation re what the
Professor and his
> wife say - Muichertach - that's an *old* Irish name -
and, I would totally
> agree with it's not being related to Murtagh in any shape
or form - however,
> I would tend to limit my agreement to the time frame that
the name was used
> in - not to later times.

SNIP > .
>
> Now, you will find Martinus in parish records - Latin
ones.
>
> Martinus = Martin = Martín = Muirtín (depending on
pronounciation)
> Martín = Marty
> Muirtín = Murty
> Murty = Murtagh
> Murtagh = Martin
>
To take the Irish form of Martin ( Máirtín ) and substitute
the ' á ' with an 'u' to account for some possible
localised prononciation in attempting to prove that
Murtagh = Martin is, to me, pseudo-logic.

> Murtagh does not = Muichertach.(sic) s/b Muirchertach
>
> Murtagh as a name listed in Irish records from the
1800's comes from
> something totally different to the Murtagh that comes
from
> Muichertach (sic)- that being a much earlier name...

If one can't say what the "something totally different"
is, then the point is not proven.

>SNIP>
Anyway, here is what the 'experts' wrote on the question of
Murtaugh:

Quoting from the book "Irish Names" by Donnchadh Ó Corráin
& Fidelma Maguire, (Lilliput Press, ISBN 0 946640 66 1)

"MUIRCHERTACH :MUIRCHEARTACH (mir-art-ach) m, 'skilled in
sea-craft, mariner'. This was an extremely common name in
early and medieval Ireland. Muirchertach mac Erca was one
of the legendary high-kings."

"The name was borne by two of the kings of Ireland in the
twelfth century: Muirchertach Ua Briain who died in 1119
and Muirchertach Mac Lochlainn who was slain in 1166. It
was common among the O Briens, the O Connors of Offaly and,
*down to very recent times* [emphasis added], among the
MacLoughlins, O Brollaghans (Bradleys) and other northern
families. In the north , Mreartach (sic) was a common form
while the form Briartach occurred in Connacht."

"At an early period the name was latinised Mauricius. It
was generally anglicised Mortimer, Murt, Murty, Monty ( in
Kerry ), and perhaps, on occasion, Maurice.
* "THE BEST ANGLICISED FORM IS MURTAUGH" * [emphasis
added]. The common sixteenth-century form is Moriartogh."

Pádraig Mór
[ An Sean-Ghabhar - Milis agus Dilis!]
[The Old Goat - Sweet and Faithful !]

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