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Archiver > IRL-TIPPERARY > 2004-09 > 1094479166


From: "Jean Pratt" <>
Subject: Re: [TIP] Research Centers and Other Sources
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 08:59:29 -0500
References: <002b01c487c5$cb245700$6400a8c0@axp2200>


Rosemary,
Wonderfully generous & knowledgeable advice!!!!!!!!!! And MOST
appreciated. Now I need to digest all of it and return to bug you with
additional questions.

Thank you so very much for you help and advice. It is trully valued,
Jeanne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rosemary Eisenhauer" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [TIP] Research Centers and Other Sources


> Jeanne and Interested Others
>
> I hope everyone has been following the current discussions about the
> Heritage Centers in Ireland. There is much good advice there. They have
> amplified the problems of faulty transcriptions and/or "missing" records
> which may simply have been left out of the databases, etc. So I will
> concentrate on Jeanne's questions below and offer some specifics for her
> search. These should have general appeal as well.
>
> 1.) We need to remember: the staffs at the Heritage Centers and the
General
> Registry Office in Dublin do a good job, by and large. But they are more
on
> the order of trained clerks rather than experienced genealogists. They
have
> neither the time, the personal motivation, nor the obligation to do
> extensive research for us. They also lack the hundreds of bits of
> information which we, as family historians, accumulate about our families
so
> the staffs cannot connect the dots to decide which John or Patrick or Mary
> or Johanna Doe is our ancestor.
>
> Example: Some years ago I searched for my grandmother in the Tipperary
Town
> area under the only name by which I knew her: Sarah Elizabeth Walsh. The
> General Registry Office couldn't find her civil registration. In those
early
> years I did not understand that the Irish seldom used Middle Names so she,
> like so many immigrants, probably adopted the "Elizabeth" part at the
advice
> of the US Processing Centers.. It never seemed to occur to the GRO staff
to
> drop the Elizabeth, however. In addition, only when a good friend checked
> the GRO records for me in Dublin did we locate her--but now as "Sally"
> Walsh. He had the experienced eye of a genealogist and realized that this
> was a typical nickname for Sarah. All other data, such as the right
parents,
> the right time frame, the right place fitted well so we knew we had the
> right person.
>
> 2.) This has relevance for your "Kitty", which probably is a nickname for
> Catherine, Catharine, Katherine, etc. It helps to include all these
> possibilities when people write to the GRO or the Heritage Centers.
> Example: I next turned to the TFHR to search for the marriage record of my
> grandmother's parents. They found it because I gave them all the data I
had
> accumulated in the US and at the GRO. This included spelling variations:
my
> g-grandmother was Johanna or Judith Maher or Meagher--sometimes in the
same
> record! Judith was probably a family nickname for Johanna.You need to
alert
> the staffs to these variations or they will tell you that there are too
many
> people with the same or different Given names for them to get the results
> you want.
>
> 3.) Another point. The surname McGrath is fairly common throughout County
> Tipperary. If, by chance, your folks came from the North they may very
well
> have belonged to the Diocese of Killaloe. These records are NOT kept at
the
> TFHR, which deals only with the records from the Archdiocese of Cashel &
> Emly. The logical place to search was the Tipperary North Family History
> Center in the town of Nenagh but alas it closed in the past year. However,
> the records for the Diocese of Killaloe are open and are available in
their
> entirety at the NAI (National Archives of Ireland) in Dublin (I think),
and
> many of the parishes are mfilmed and available also at the LDS. But
without
> a SPECIFIC town or religious parish you would have to view every single
> tape. That would run into money and much time. The same thing is true for
> the most Southerly section of Tipperary, where a number of RC Parishes
> belong to the Waterford Diocese.
>
> 4.) So your best bet right now may be to re-visit your US sources on your
> Patrick McGrath (and his brothers) in the Chicago and La Salle County,
> Illinois areas before the leap to Irish records. Don't be intimidated by a
> big city like Chicago. Most immigrants were poor and gravitated to
> low-rental districts when they first arrived. To further narrow your
search,
> you can check the Diocese in these areas to find the names of extant
> churches in your time frame. And ask them particularly which churches
> served the Irish population. This is what we did in Baltimore and my son
> made many important discoveries about his Eisenhauer forebearers during
the
> 8 years we were working on them.
>
> 5.) Try writing a letter through the regular Mail (not email or voice
mail)
> to the public library in Ottawa, LaSalle County, Illinois. Be brief and to
> the point. Ask for only a couple of things. Don't send your entire family
> history. Rather, you would be interested in knowing whether they have
> genealogical holdings such as newspapers, town directories of businesses
in
> your TIME FRAME where YOU could search for your Patrick McGrath, the coal
> dealer. And/or could they please send you the proper address for the local
> Historical Society? Always end such letters with a polite question. This
> compells your correspondent to write back!
>
> 6.) A coal dealer would seem to imply seasonal employment, in the winter.
> Could your Patrick McGrath (or his wife's family) also have owned a farm
in
> LaSalle County, Illinois? If so, you may encounter new sources to explore
> such as land index records, tax records, wills, voting lists, interim
State
> cenuses, etc. And somewhere in there could be a reference to a specific
> Place of his Origin in CoTipperary--or it could be a reference to a view
of
> a "mountain," a narrow river nearby, the local Pub in his Irish village.
Or
> perhaps to other siblings still living in Ireland at the time? I have
> wondered why none of the 4 McGrath boys possessed their father's name of
> Richard, for example. Could a brother named Richard have remained behind?
Or
> died young?
>
> 7.) Try the technique again. Write another brief letter to the Caretaker
of
> St. Columba's cemetery and ask for the Internment Records for the grave of
> Patrick McGrath. Who else is buried in that plot with him? It was a very
> common practice in the US before laws were established to limit the number
> of burials per grave. (One small triangular gravesite in Baltimore held 21
> individuals from the Eisenhauer side of our family, dating from the later
> 18th to the early 20th centuries.)
>
> 8.) Was your Patrick married? If his wife had been Protestant, what
cemetery
> would she logically be buried in? Did they have children? If they all are
> buried in the Patrick's gravesite, what were their Given Names and dates
of
> death? With the Given Names of the children you have more clues to any of
> your family who were left in Ireland. This search could also yield his
> wife's Given and Surname. Do mention that you are Patrick's direct
> descendant. Don't send your whole family history. The caretaker doesn't
have
> the time to read it.
>
> Hope this helps Jeanne and everybody. I am still re-visiting my old
records
> and places associated with my own family because I have not yet located my
> grandfather in Ireland. He is really a stubborn problem, that one.
>
> Best, Rosemary
>
>
>
> Jeanne wrote: > ROLL CALL (Patrick) McGRATH son of Richard & Kitty
McGrath.
> >
> > "Our family lore has said for a long time that four brothers (they were
> > believed to be named Thomas, James, Patrick and Peter). Two remained
in
> > New York and two moved to Chicago, with Patrick later moving to LaSalle
> > County, Illinois."
> >
> > Although Patrick immigrated to the United States when he was 10 years
old.
> > He did not show up in a LaSalle County census until 1870. Occupation is
> > listed as a coal dealer. We would be very interested in his whereabouts
> > from 1830 - 1870. His death certificate indicates that he had lived in
> > Illinois since he was 12 years old.
> >
> > Patrick is buried in St. Columba Cemetery, Ottawa, LaSalle Co., IL. Per
> > tombstone: "Patrick McGrath, Born in Co. Tipperary, Ireland September
14,
> > 1820, died Jan. 19, 1902"
> >
> > We have attempted to get information from the Tipperary Family History
> > Center. To no avail. Any assistance in finding any additional
> information
> > on Patrick, his parents and any siblings he may have had would be
greatly
> > appreciated.
>

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