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From:
Subject: RE: [KINCAID] Timeline for Thomas
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 14:58:51 +0000


Norm

Many thanks for the Dunseath records. I did not have that. And I'll add
Just a little more. Thomas was actully first supposed to muster in July of
1777, to the 2nd Btn., but the record says this was "abated" and there was a 20
pound fine. (Found in record as "Kinked") Then you say he sold his Tyrone land
in October. Winter was not a mustering time. The next summer, 1778, he is
mustered in, but now it's the 6th Btn.

I only found one pay certificate for a Thomas Kincaid, of Cumberland
County, #5387, July 1, 1785. (=L8.6.5)

If everything we've put together is as it appears to be, then this is an
excellent timeline, capped off by Clingan's birth in South Carolina ca. 1788.

In the 1790 census for the Hamilton township, I only find a John, no
Thomas or any other Kincaid. By 1790, Thomas, son of John, merchant of
Carlisle, was already buying land in Jefferson County, TN. There was no census
there.

Bruce
> In my timeline I find Thomas Kinkead, farmer, Tyrone Township, received a
> mortgage for 200 pounds from David Dunseath, gunsmith of Carlisle 50 pounds
> due each October 1 for 1778 through 1781, dated Oct. 4, 1777.
> Thomas Kinkead, farmer, Tyrone Township, granted to David Dunseath, gunsmith
> of Carlisle, for 300 pounds, 133 acres in Tyrone Township, Oct. 4, 1777.
> Then Thomas Kinghead taxed in Hamilton Township, Cumberland County, PA for 1
> horse,1 cow. Penn. Archives, s. 3, v. 20, p. 55.
> 1778 Thomas Kinkead served as private in 3rd Class, 3rd Company, 6th
> Battalion commanded by Capt. Samuel Patten as of July 4, 1778.
> 1779 Thomas Kinkead taxed in Hamilton Township, Cumberland County, PA for 1
> cow. There is no Thomas Kinkead on the Tyrone Township tax list for 1777,
> 1778, 1779, or 1780. But in the deed for the sale of property in CArlisle he
> is stated Thomas Kinkead and wife Hannah, farmer, Tyrone Township. I find
> Thomas Kincaid in Hamilton Township, Franklin County as late as 1788. I
> think now that there is good case for stating that Thomas Kinkead of Tyrone
> Township may have gone to Hamilton Township, Cumberland, later Franklin
> County, PA.
> Sincerely
> Norman Kincaide
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [mailto:]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 11:57 AM
> To:
> Subject: RE: [KINCAID] Widow/Merchant of Cumberland PA
>
>
> That possibility has surfaced before, so I offer this:
>
> We don't have a firm timeline for Thomas, son of Merchant, BUT we do know
> who
> he married, and I for one have questioned before how somebody who lived in
> Sherman's Valley would have met and married someone who lived near the
> Maryland
> border. So in order to understand this, I offer the following on Hannah
> Clingan's father. I hope my Clingan brethren will forgive the copy and
> paste.
>
> Notes for George Clingan
>
> 17 Aug 1744, Warrant For 40 Acres, Fallowfield, Chester Co., PA
> 1754, Tax Rolls, Little Britain Twp, Lancaster Co., PA
> 1756, Lieut., Colonial Militia, Associated Companies, Lancaster Co., PA
> 1760-1773, Rev. John Roan's Congregation, Mount Joy Presbyterian Church, PA
> 1761, Elder Of Donegal Presbytery
> 1762-1773, Owner Of Donegal Mills, 342 Acres Donegal Twp, Lancaster Co., PA.
>
> 1772, Bought Carroll's Delight Plantation, 375 Acres, Hamiltonban Twp., York
>
> Co., PA
> 1773, Bought 200 Acres Cumberland Twp, York Co., PA
> 1775, Elected To Committee Of Safety, York Co., PA
>
> CHAPTER THREE
> GEORGE CLINGAN
> We don't know a great deal about George Clingan. He was born c.1720 in
> Ireland or Scotland and died at an advanced age circa 1778. Sue Maxwell
> shares
> this: "His will was dated March 20,1778 and was probated April 29,1778".
> As
> you noticed earlier, he and his brothers traveled to America with the Rev.
> John
> Roan in c.1739.
> He acquired a land grant in 1744 in East Caln, Chester County PA and
> another
> in 1762 in Donegal Twp. Lancaster PA. His name appears on the tax records
> of
> Lancaster County, Donegal twp. 1769-1772. He purchased a tract of land
> known
> as Carroll's Delight which at that time was a Maryland property and was
> first
> recorded in Fredrich County Maryland in their deed book page 46 or folio 46.
>
> Evidently as a result of further survey of the area it was found that the
> Plantation was actually in York County PA and was then recorded in the deed
> book of York County. Robert Clingan of Mississippi has
> found a
> record of the transfer of the Carrol's Delight property from West Virginia
> to
> Pennsylvania. It is Tract MM-540E of Carrol's Delight first recorded in
> Fredrich County then transfered to Adams County PA. he thinks this was done
> when it was determined that the land was actually in Pa.
>
> A history titled Clingans and related Families has this to say. "George
> Clingan ....... moved from Donegal Twp., Lancaster County to the western
> part
> of Marsh Creek Settlement west of Gettysberg PA about 1772. Although the
> Mason
> Dixon line had proved the land lay in PA, a deed of 1772 in the Fredrick
> Courthouse conveyed (Transferred)375 acres for 1650 pounds from John Hall to
>
> George Clingan of Donegal Twp. The tract begannext to South Mt. at a
> chestnut
> tree bearing 12 notchees at the corner of John Withrow's plantation. In
> 1764,
> this tract had been granted to Charles Carrol Esq. of Annapolis, to William
> Lockery and in the same year to John Hall". An earlier discription of the
> same
> property was given in 1755 when it was sold to William McClean. He bought
> two
> tracks of land of 200 acres each in Caroll's Delight from Daniel Caroll.
> (The
> deed is indexed William McClane (McClean) at the Fredrick Courthouse). The
> first tract started near the south branch of Marsh Creek and lay west of the
>
> land belonging to Ephriam Johnson. The second tract started at a beech tree
>
> with 12 notches on the north side of the south branch of Marsh Creek. This
>
> place was at the corner of Land where Hance Patton lived and was the
> easternmost corner of Carroll's Delight.
>
> I believe he married a lady named Margaret Kirkpatrick. There are those who
>
> would question Margaret Kirkpatrick as the true wife of George, but until I
> am
> given unrefutable proof that she was not the lady I will not change the
> history.
>
> Excert from George's Will:
>
> "Then, I do will and bequeath to my daughter Hannah the sum of one hundred
> pounds on the first day of May, in the year of our Lord, 1780. Also,to the
> value of seventy Five pounds in such stock and furniture as she might
> choose."
>
>
> Notice that Hannah's family had already moved to York (Adams) while Thomas
> was
> still married to his first wife. At this time he is definitely living in
> Sherman's Valley. George Clingan's land was just on the east side of South
> Mountain, near Antietam. This is a long way from Thomas. George dies in
> 1777. His Will seems to indicate Hannah is still not married. But then we
> have this:
>
> "9 Jan 1779 Thomas Kinkead of Tyrone Twp., Cumberland Co., PA Yeoman and
> Hannah
> his wife...and James Polluck of Carlisle county aforesaid Tavern
> Keeper...Whereas
> John Kinkead late of Town of Carlisle aforesaid Shopkeeper deceased...South
> side
> of Lewther St and on East side of Pitt Street in the Town of
> Carlisle...#86...John
> Kinkead having been siezed and possessed...2 Aug 1772...(quotes from
> will)..."Item, I
> will devise & bequeath to my son Thomas that Plantation in Shearmans Valley
> whereon he now lives containing two surveys and also my House & Lot in
> Carlisle
> on the corner of an Alley and fronting on Lewther St./ Subject to the Rents
> and
> Profits thereof herein before and after limited willed and bequeathed to him
>
> his heirs & assigns forever"...200 pounds...#86...Wit: Charles Cooper &
> George
> Stevenson "
>
> This sale about a year later indicates that Thomas is now married to Hannah
> (Clingan), AND that he is of Tyrone Twp. Supposedly their first child,
> Margaret was born within the next year.
>
> The above is all to set up the geographic aspect. To the minds eye this
> doesn't seem possible. But when one really looks at the map, especially old
>
> townships, we see that the western townships of Cumberland curve southwest
> into
> those that became Franklin County, Hamilton being one of those. Those of
> Franklin are not such a far cry from where the Clingans lived. Sherman's
> Valley naturally follows this pattern, which is determined by the mountain
> ranges. It was a natural highway moving south to Virginia. Thomas'
> inheritance was actually two different surveys. Maybe one was farther into
> this area we speak of. I am stretching some here, I know.
>
> What we need is to look at when Thomas stops being taxed in Tyrone/Tyboyne,
> and
> when the Thomas of Hamilton is first taxed. A deed for the sale of the
> Shermans Valley land would also help. My belief is that by the above sale
> in
> 1779, Hannah's father is dead, Thomas' father is dead and maybe his mother,
> and
> that this sale is preparatory to an impending move.
>
> Bruce
> > Also along this line, since I no longer believe that Thomas Kincaid of
> > Hamilton Township, Cumberland County, PA is the same Thomas Kincaid who
> > married Mary Mackey, then could he still be Thomas Kinkead, son of John
> > Kinkead the Merchant? I was hoping to find a grantor deed in Chambersburg
> > that would give this Thomas Kincaid's wife's name. But there wasn't one. A
> > better time line on Thomas Kinkead, son of John the Merchant could cast
> some
> > light on whether this is a possibility.
> > Sincerely
> > Norman Kincaide
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [mailto:]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 6:46 AM
> > To:
> > Subject: [KINCAID] Widow/Merchant of Cumberland PA
> >
> >
> > To all the Cumberland, PA researchers,
> >
> > So far, where general Kincaid research is concerned, I have contributed
> > nothing
> > along the likes of Peter and Norman. I have relegated myself to gathering
>
> > already collected info and trying to draw pictures from it. So here I go
> > again. As I look at our PA records a few things are bothering me to no
> end,
> >
> > and though not new to our conversation, I feel we might not have looked at
> > them
> > in this way.
> >
> > I'm certain I'll make some statements/assumptions you will not agree with,
> > but
> > that's the point of this post, to generate comments, opinions, or
> > corrections
> > based on fact if that is the case.
> >
> > WIDOW KINKEAD - Tyrone Twp, Cumberland Co, PA
> >
> > I think everyone involved in the PA line would like to know who this
> > person was, for the implied reason of knowing who her husband was. So I
> > would
> > like to propose that Widow Kinkead's husband was a person held in high
> > esteem
> > by the Cumberland County community. I base this theory on a purely
> > UNSCIENTIFIC gut feeling, but one that I would love to get help on. My
> > feeling
> > is that the reason Widow Kinkead is referred to as such, rather than by
> her
> > given name, is because it is a term of reverence (sympathy being one
> form).
> >
> > The reverence however is not so much for herself directly, but indirectly
> > for
> > the fact that she was the "wife of . . .", now "widow of . . ." - her
> > husband
> > Kinkead. By not using her given name, emphasis removed from herself, and
> > remains focused on her dead husband.
> > Other single women, even widows, are referred to by their given name.
> > In
> > my genealogical research all over the U.S. I have seen enough records to
> > believe that the term "Widow" was not used liberally in official records.
> > Each
> > community may have different reasons for it that would make my assumption
> > invalid. But I just get the "sense" that there is more to it than just a
> > matter of identification. Could it also be the manner in which Mr.
> Kinkead
> > died? Unexpectedly? By Indians? Leaving no will?
> > I think someone with more of an anthropological background could shed
> > more
> > light on the subject.
> >
> > That alone doesn't support my theory, but in conjunction with the
> > Tax/Land
> > records, and where she lived. (I think she is farther west than most.)
> > Evidently Widow Kinkead was a very independent woman. To be such in that
> > day
> > and age meant she had to have been left with the means by her husband.
> >
> > If my assumptions have some validity, then I feel like the husband of
>
> > Widow Kinkead should have left records of himself. With all the records
> we
> > do
> > have - which are very good by comparison to other areas - how could he
> not?
> > I
> > believe we do know this person. His name is there, in one of the records
> we
> >
> > already have, and we need to determine which one of the many men we know
> of
> > might fit this profile: a man who bought land in Tyrone pre-1763, highly
> > regarded by his peers, probably related to George somehow, may have died
> > unexpected death, tragically.
> >
> > JOHN KINKEAD, Shopkeeper of Carlisle
> >
> > Who is this John's father? For some time I have felt that his family
> > is
> > one of the families we have seen so much evidence of in Lancaster County,
> > from
> > Chester, etc.. But the utter lack of any connection left me wondering if
> > maybe
> > he came much later, moving quickly to Cumberland to show up at the time he
>
> > did. However, I am back to the first option, believing as I do with Widow
>
> > Kincaid, that his family is right there in front of us, and we just don't
> > know
> > it yet. So maybe the following can help focus on the likeliest
> candidates.
> > This John Kinkead was not your typical PA yeoman. I had some
> > understanding of this from the beginning, but Norm's recent research nails
> > it.
> > In John's world, most people broke their backs farming 10 or 20 acres,
> > without
> > slaves. They dealt with crops and livestock more than money. John had
> not
> > only 3 different tracks of land, 2 in Cumberland and one in SC, but a
> store
> > where he evidently dealt heavily in cloth, several girls who apparently
> were
> > in
> > servitude to him, one Negro, multiple lots in and around Carlisle. In his
> > day,
> > given what Carlisle was like at the time, John was middle-class, in a
> small
> > class of businessmen. Putting aside modern-day prejudices, that is my
> > picture
> > of John.
> > Even today it takes money to put inventory in your store. Either
> John
> > had
> > the money already, say through inheritance, or he borrowed it. To borrow
> > would
> > most likely have gone through a Philadelphia bank. He would have to have
> > credit or some backing venture. Either way requires you to have something
> > to
> > begin with.
> > At this point I digress to John's first appearance, which is about
> the
> > same time that Carlisle is laid out. He is 30yrs old, and for all we
> know,
> > he
> > is fatherless at the time, for there doesn't appear to be a decent
> candidate
> > in
> > the records. Every year thereafter we see him rising to the estate he had
> > at
> > death. He deals in cloth. This doesn't sound like someone who came from
> an
> >
> > impoverished family.
> > Two things come to mind. If we consider that most Scotch-Irish came
> to
> >
> > America under duress, owning little, then we can speculate that John's
> > family
> > must have been here long enough to build up a trade that made money.
> Cloth?
> >
> > Surely this isn't something John just took up after appearing in Carlisle.
> > It
> > stands to reason that his father may also have been a merchant, and would
> in
> >
> > that case have stuck closer to the cities. It is possible that his father
>
> > planned to be one of the first people to inhabit Carlisle, but died before
> > the
> > lots could be sold. John took up the cause with his inheritance.
> > Therefore, my suspicion is that John's father came to America before
> > John
> > was born (1720), was a merchant, with some connection to the cloth
> > industry(?),
> > and lived first in one of the bigger cities of the time. Philadelphia?
> >
> > As with the Widow Kinkead, such a person could not escape the records
> > we
> > have. Somewhere in there is a man who may fit this profile. With all
> this
> > ammunition, I can't believe I don't even have a hunch as to which one it
> is.
> >
> > But then my records are thin compared to what Peter or Norm may have. So
> I
> > am
> > hoping that some profiling may cause a bell to ring.
> >
> > Of course, if I am wrong about my assumptions to begin with then . .
> .
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> >
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