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Archiver > LANARK > 1999-12 > 0945457317

From: "Mark Sutherland-Fisher" <>
Subject: Re: [LKS] Glasgow Irish and Allen Glen's school
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 19:01:57 -0000

Hi Janet and list,
No sadly Allan Glen's was a victim of Religious and political intolerance
which plagued Glasgow in the 1970's. the Labour dominated City Corporation
removed all funding from non-Roman Catholic Public and Grammar Schools in
1973. Allan Glen's, the Boys' and Girls' High Schools, Jordanhill and
Hillhead High School were all partly publicly funded to enable children from
very poor backgrounds to benefit from the internationally high standard of
academic achievement. the Boys' High boasted I think 3 Prime Ministers,
Allan Glen's a Nobel Prize winner, dirk Bogarde the actor, the head of
multi-national corporations etc etc. Allan Glen's, the Girls' High and
Hillhead were all forced to amalgamate with their local Comprehensive State
Schools. for the latter two it made little difference because they were in
upper middle class areas anyway. for Allan Glen's, it was a tragedy. Our
Rector, Mr. Finlayson openly criticised the Labour party and at a memorable
parents evening attended by some high ranking Labour party official in the
Council accused them of blatant bigotry because none of the roman Catholic
schools with similar funding were being affected. Of course it was no
co-incidence that most of the Labour councillors sons attended those
schools, including some of my subsequent University pals. Mr Finlayson was
forced into retirement and Allan Glen's was amalgamated with City Public, a
run-down inner city comprehensive school. there had been a fifteen foot wall
and fence between the two schools and one day they simply took it down,
imposed their headmaster on us and left us to get on with it. The result was
that for the next two years we were not allowed to move around alone outside
the school grounds without a teacher being present. One boy in my class was
attacked at the school gates by 4 complete strangers and after several days
in intensive care, spent the next 6 months in hospital recovering from what
the police considered to be an attempted murder. The 4 turned out to be 4
former pupils of City Public who thought they would show one of the Allan
Glen's boys what the new regime meant!! I had someone through a toilet
watertank lid at me from 4 floors up and thankfully it missed or I wouldn't
be here now. The school closed a few years later and after a period as an
annexe of one of the local colleges, I now believe it belongs to Strathclyde
University. One of the greatest schools in the world which produced some of
the greatest scientists of the 19th and 20th century was destroyed to make
cheap political points. The sad thing is that the Conservative Government of
Ted Heath at the time allowed it to happen and the Secretary of State for
Education who let the Labour Council do what they wanted was none other than
Margaret Hilda Thatcher!!
To complete the story, The Boys' High amalgamated with another public school
based in Bearsden and still continues as does Jordanhill which was
incorporated into the College in the grounds of which it sat. History
repeats itself and there have recently been allegations about the fact that
the current Labour education ministers children attend Jordanhill.
Allan Glen's still exists in the form of the Old Boys Club, which still owns
our extensive sports grounds at Bearsden, the Council not having any way of
getting its hands on them. I don't mean to sound bitter and I was pleased
that my pals who attended St. Mungo's and St. Aloysius isn't have to endure
the torture that we did. I would love a copy of your father's old photo. The
School sat at 190 Cathedral Street, just a few hundred yards from the
Cathedral. The 4 school houses of Barony, Greyfriars, Provand and Ramshorn
were named after the four oldest Parish churches in the old city. I was in
Genealogist: Clan Sutherland
Co-genealogist: Clan Mackenzie
see my web-site:
Professional Genealogist specialising in Highland Research and the 18th
----- Original Message -----
From: janet <>
To: Mark Sutherland-Fisher <>;
Sent: 16 December 1999 20:01
Subject: Re: [LKS] Glasgow Irish and Allen Glen's school

> Hello Mark
> You mention Allen Glen's school in Glasgow. Is it still in existence? My
> father now aged 91 attended the school possibly about 1914-16 and I know
> would like to know more about the school. Could you tell me the address
> where it was? I have one of his school photos. My father speaks very
> warmly of his time there and I would appreciate any information you may
> have. Thanks Janet in New Zealand----- Original Message -----
> From: Mark Sutherland-Fisher <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999 7:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [LKS] Glasgow Irish
> > Hi Frank,
> > Until the partition of Ireland earlier this century, there was a
> > movement of people back and forward between Scotland and Ulster in
> > particular and the rest of Ireland to a lesser extent. When the potato
> > famines struck, thousands of Southern Irish migrated to Scotland and in
> > particular the Glasgow area, attracted by all the work in the mines,
> > shipyards, steel industry etc. Glasgow as the second city of the British
> > Empire and the driving force behind Imperial expansion. It built the
> > etc on the Clyde. Entire areas of Glasgow, like the Parkhead area became
> > heavily populated by the principally Roman Catholic Southern Irish and
> other
> > areas like Dennistoun, Carntyne and Baiilieston by the predominantly
> > Presbyterian Ulster Irish. Until just a few years ago, people living in
> > these areas of Irish ancestry still tended to come from the same
> > community as their ancestors. West Central Scotland (i.e. the Greater
> > Glasgow area) has had a history of religious difference but thankfully
> > only tended to spill into violence around football matches between
> > (seen as the Protestant team) and Celtic (seen as the Roman Catholic
> team).
> > Thankfully although there is some residual antagonism between the fans
> > the two clubs, violence is now rare. The irony is that most of the
> > day Celtic players are Protestant and most of the Rangers players are
> Roman
> > Catholic.
> > when I was at School in the 70's, there was a great deal of rivalry
> between
> > the Roman Catholic Boys' public Schools like St Aloysuis (sorry about
> wrong
> > spelling) and St. Mungo's and the Non-Roman Catholic ones like mine,
> > Glen's, Glasgow High School and Glasgow Academy. The rivalry was kept to
> the
> > rugby park and off pitch we all got on well. We travelled to school at
> > end of the railway carriage, the Mungo/Aloysius boys at the other and
> > Park School for Girls pupils were the referees in the middle. There was
> > great deal of friendly banter and name calling. However if a crowd of
> > from a state school got on the carriage and started to have a go because
> as
> > public schoolboys we had our "fancy" uniforms on, then the so called
> > religious differences were put aside and it was public school v state
> > school. There is no doubt that for many years there was dreadful bigotry
> in
> > Glasgow because certain areas were saturated by Irish immigrants and for
> too
> > long Roman Catholics of Irish descent were deprived access to top jobs
> etc.
> > Thankfully by the 1970's that had largely gone, in spite of what James
> > MacMillan the conductor recently tried to suggest and now it is talent
> that
> > counts, not which type of church you visit on a Sunday. Of course the
> irony
> > is that most of the people who practised the bigotry on both sides were
> not
> > to be seen inside a church from one end of the year to the other, except
> for
> > weddings, baptisms and funerals.
> > Mark
> > Genealogist: Clan Sutherland
> > Co-genealogist: Clan Mackenzie
> > see my web-site:
> > Professional Genealogist specialising in Highland Research and the 18th
> > century
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Frank Early <>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: 06 December 1999 01:42
> > Subject: [LKS] Glasgow Irish
> >
> >
> > > Sent Thurs 16 Dec 99
> > >
> > > Greetings All
> > >
> > > The term "Glasgow Irish" crops up from time to time and I assume
> > > that this community was part of the great Irish Diaspora. Does
> > > anyone know if research has been done on these people? Did they
> > > maintain a distinct identity, or blend seamlessly into the
> > > Scottish environment? Did recognised "Irish Areas" exist in
> > > Lanarkshire in the last century?
> > >
> > > Best wishes
> > >
> > > Frank.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ==== LANARK Mailing List ====
> > > The Lanarkshire Surnames List can be found at:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ==== LANARK Mailing List ====
> > Glasgow & West of Scotland FHS:
> > Unit 5
> > 22 Mansfield Street
> > Glasgow G11 5QP
> > Scotland
> > tel: UK 0141-339 8303 (unchanged)
> >
> >

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