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Archiver > LISLE > 2005-06 > 1118601567


From: "Ray Isbell" <>
Subject: Re: [LISLE] Origin of the Lisle surname
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 18:39:27 +0000
In-Reply-To: <005401c56f74$19156850$7d8aec18@home>


>From: "Judy Dawe" <>
>Reply-To:
>To:
>Subject: Re: [LISLE] Origin of the Lisle surname
>Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 13:28:07 -0400
>
>That's all very well, but I've had other offers for the definitions of
>family names and would have to look and think twice or more before I would
>act. There are too many companies who use this as a "come-on". Especially
>as you say he's not a list member.
>
>You can get some of the same info on the internet. I'd be very careful as
>there are, indeed, several lines of LYLE / LISLE / LEILL / LILE / LILES, et
>al. De Lisle is yet another branch and not just another spelling, as I
>understand it. DeLisle is from France, and is French, meaning of Lisle or
>of the isle. The Delisle's went to England with William the Conqueror. My
>LYLE / LEILL / LISLE is from Scotland. I believe I've found the persons in
>my line on Scotlands Peoples.com, at Mitchell Library (recently) and the
>IGI of FamilySearch. At least it matches what others in the family have
>found. But have also found new information that seems to fit.
>
>Good luck to all of you as it is a difficult name to trace. There were a
>lot of them in the late 1700's and early 1800's in the US and they all seem
>to have the same names. Judy Dawe, Saginaw, MI
>
>
>==============================
Judy,
In this case, the guy is not selling it. Or at least he sent it to me for
free.


Of the Lisles in Scotland, the manuscript says this:

* BSS says the Lyle Barons of Duchal were from the Northumberland Lisles/de
Insulas, with the first of the name in Scotland being Radulphus or Ralph of
Duchal, a follower of the Steward, around 1170.
(* Blacks Surnames of Scotland [BSS] )

In Scotland, the connection with Northumberland is evident in the early
1200s, as one Peter de Insula recorded by 1226 in connection with Richard de
Umfravill, can be identified as the Peter de Insula who held Chipchase and
Whittle (northeast of Newcastle) of Gilbert de Umfraville, Earl of Angus,
and son of Richard, by 1242. The Umfravilles were another major Norman
family, from Amfreville, and they held lands in Northumberland and Scotland,
taking the earldom of Angus when the Gilbert just mentioned married Matilda,
daughter of the Scottish Earl Malcolm of Angus.

Knowing the Duchal Lisles were from Northumberland, its not difficult to
identify the Ralph of Duchal as the brother or nephew of the same name to
Sir William de Insula of Northumberland, already mentioned above, died by
1166. Sir William and his brother Ralph were great-grandfather and
grand-uncle respectively to the Peter of Chipchase referred to above.

In 1252 there is an Alan de Insula, Knight of the High Steward, and a
Robert; in 1260 a Ralph de Insula is Lord of Duchal; in 1273 another Peter;
and at the close of the century there is evidence of now an extended family
Sir John de Ille of Duchal, Richard del Isle, Alisaundre [Alexander] del
Ile, and Johan del Ile.

The Scottish Lisles of Duchal, and of Angus, therefore came out of the
Northumberland branch, closely tied to the Umfravilles, and before that from
Lincolnshire - Robert de Insula who married Albreda de Todeni and before
that most likely from the Bedfordshire de Insulas.



Regarding Sir William Lisle of Northumberland, it says:


The * NCH tells us that Lisles/de Insulas appeared in Northumberland in the
mid-1100s from Lincolnshire, the first recorded family member being Sir
William de Insula in the 1159 Pipe Roll. NCH points to a Robert de Insula
who held lands in Lincolnshire and Yorkshire, as direct ancestor. This
Robert married Albreda de Tosny or Todeni, around 1116. Albreda was the
eldest daughter of Conquest knight Robert de Tosny, and sister to Berengar
de Tosny who held lands in Lincolnshire, Oxfordshire, Nottinghamshire and
Yorkshire. Robert may have been a son of the Robert de Insula, brother of
the Ralph de lIsle in Bedfordshire see below.
( * the Northumberland County History [NCH] )

NCH notes this Sir William was given land by the father of Walter de
Bolebeck, who refers to him as my man, in 1140s/50s, for his service;
Walters father, also Walter, lived c1090-c1136 for Sir William to have
been his man too, he must have rendered service at the latest in the early
1130s, therefore must have been born c1100-10 if not earlier.

Sir William De Insula of Northumberland [1159 Pipe Roll] married Cecilia and
had some six children, among them William, Othuel/Otwel, and Robert; Ralph,
his brother, married and had at least one son, Ralph. From Othuel descended
the full line of the Northumberland Lisles through his son Robert de Insula
[about 1165-1208]; also the Stoke Lyne line below - through Robert and/or
another son, Otwel. Robert [died 1208]s brother William can probably be
identified as the William de Ylle/de Lile recorded in Duchal in 1208,1218,
1222 & 1223; this William was uncle to the Peter de Insula mentioned below
see Scotland.





My descent is from Lord John Lisle who married Dame Alicia Beckensawe,
beheaded in 1685 by order of the notorious Judge Jeffries.
John Lisle's ancestry (as I've been given it):

1 Jordan DE INSULA died c1155
+ Hawise
2 Geoffrey DE INSULA
3 Walter DE INSULA b: 1214
4 Baldwin DE INSULA b: 1240
5 John DE INSULA b: 1279
6 Walter DE INSULA
7 William DE INSULA b: 1338
8 William DE INSULA b: 1370
9 John DE INSULA b: 1387
+ Margaret BREMSHOT (Brenshot?)
10 George de Insula (LISLE)
+ Anne MONTGOMERY
11 Lancelot LISLE
+ Anne WROUGHTON
12 Thomas LISLE
+ Miss MOORE
13 Anthony LISLE
+ Elizabeth DORMER
14 William LISLE
+ Bridget HUNGERFORD*
15 John LISLE
+ Alicia BECONSAW b: 1605 d: 2 Sep 1685
16 Margaret LISLE
+ Robert Hugh Whitaker

* Her gggg-grandmother Margaret Beaufort was a gg-granddaughter of Edward
III.



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