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Archiver > LONDON > 1999-10 > 0941304858

From: <>
Subject: [London] Inn the News - November 1999
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:34:18 +0100

Hi Listers,

This issue of Inn the News marks our first anniversary and in these 12
months we have come a very long way. It seems entirely appropriate
that we should once again extend our thanks to all those around the
world who have taken up our various appeals for the information on
which the Index is based. We should also record our gratitude to a
number of long-suffering archivists and librarians whose patience in
answering our questions would have impressed Job. Without them all we
would be nowhere near as far forward as we are and those for whom we
have conducted successful searches - a slowly increasing number -
would still be waiting and searching.

It was gratifying to find that we had been mentioned in a short piece
in the November issue of "Family History Magazine." Unfortunately,
they made a mistake with our e-mail address. So, for any of their
readers who have found this out the hard way, we repeat here the
correct address:

We continue to receive enquiries about the availability of the Index
on-line and perhaps our first anniversary is the time to outline the
position on this subject.
Despite many suggestions on how to go about this, the fact remains
that no IP we have contacted so far, whether in the UK or overseas, is
willing to host a database as large as we anticipate ours will be upon
completion at anything other than commercial rates.
At present, the cheapest offer we have received, allowing us to retain
complete control over content and presentation, is £250 per month,
with a £250 set-up fee and a 12-month advance payment.
The inevitable consequence of this would be that the Index would have
to be pay-to-view and this would incur additional expenses to enable
us to receive the fees generated. Fees would be in the region of £5
per visit or US $10 to make this work, we would need to have a minimum
of 50 paying visitors each and every month, just to break even.
Another alternative that we investigated was to carry advertising
banners. In order to generate enough revenue to make the site
self-financing we would have to have at least 2,500 of our visitors
access the sponsors, each and every month. Each such visit would
generate a 1 cent fee but payment is delayed so this would assist only
in the longer term. Worse, there has been a recent case of an agency
responsible for these advertisements going bust and leaving creditors
We have said on many occasions - it is almost the first thing on our
home page - that the Index was conceived as a not-for-profit project.
The only fees we have ever received are those for printed reports for
which we have requested £3 or US $5 to cover the printing and postage
While we sympathise with those who would like to browse on their own,
we hope that readers will understand that we simply do not have the
level of finances to pursue this at present. The whole subject is
under constant review and if anything were to change, we will happily
trumpet it from the roof-tops.

The Counties Top Ten
1 Kent 30,430
2 Yorkshire 29,554
3 Norfolk 17,790
4 Surrey 10,734
5 Derbyshire 10,360
6 Lancashire 10,256
7 Suffolk 10,154
8 Essex 8,056
9 Lincolnshire 7,316
10 Cumberland 7,138

On the subject of Submissions and Enquiries from the forms on our
site, during the past few weeks these have increased dramatically.
Unfortunately, a problems has also arisen that we had not anticipated.
A number of our replies to these messages have returned delivery
failure messages and in some cases, this is because the e-mail address
on the original enquiry or submission contained additional characters,
presumably as Spam-defeating devices.
Please ensure that you give the correct e-mail address on any messages
to which you anticipate a reply.

Following last month's request for information about three Royal Naval
vessels commemorated in pub names, Kevin J. Foster has sent us the
following on the Captain, Man of War.
The time period mentioned included two losses of ships named HMS
The first was the third-rate 74 built at Limehouse in 1809, and burnt
by accident 22/3/1813 at Plymouth. 
The other, more famous disaster is associated with the iron turret
ship CAPTAIN which capsized off Cape Finisterre 7/9/1870.
This one was built by Laird's and home-ported at Portsmouth. So the
two ships had associations with four ports. 
Kevin goes on to say: "If the pub in question was in London near
Limehouse it may be associated with the 1809-1813 CAPTAIN". In fact
the pub we mentioned was in High Street, Poplar, which seems to
suggest this vessel. (For those unfamiliar with London geography,
Poplar and Limehouse are adjacent, the latter being closer to the
River Thames.)
There were very busy shipyards all along this part of the Thames, on
both north and south banks, at this time.
Kevin drew on Colledge's Vol.1 and Hawkey's HMS CAPTAIN for this

This month we turn our attention to another popular name for Inns and
Taverns - The Talbot.
Many readers will know that a talbot was a breed of hunting hound and
apart from the tradition that they were spotted and are now extinct,
may not know much more about them.
The relatively few snippets of description are tantalising and paint a
most interesting picture. It was clearly large and very powerful,
since it was used to hunt wild boar. From such references as we can
find, a composite picture suggest that it would have had the form of
perhaps a Staffordshire bull-terrier but of the size of a Great Dane.
Deep-chested, square-headed with very powerful, thick legs. Colouring
was frequently spotted, rather like a Dalmation but plain and patched
colours were also known.
They were highly-prized animals - hardly pets - and a breeding couple
were sometimes gifts at noble weddings. This was a status gift at the
Incidentally, their ferocity in the field could sometimes be
misdirected, as on one occasion a talbot was deliberately set on a
peasant for some transgression and quite literally tore him to pieces.

Finally: Appeal of the Month
We are surprised to find that we have absolutely no entries for
Huntingdon (the city.) Can anyone take pity and remedy this

We would welcome contributions to Inn the News from interested
readers. These should be restricted to genealogical matters, and in
particular to the licensed trades, in England during the 19th
The publishers reserve the right to edit or decline any such
contributions and stress that the opinions expressed in any such
contribution are those of the author and are not necessarily those of
the publishers.

Stan Gooch Rob Sones
member, member,
East of London FHS Berkshire FHS________________________________________________

The Pubs, Inns and Taverns Index for England 1801-1900
A non profit-making project to index all the licensed
premises in England for the 19th Century.

If you have any details of such premises,
please contribute them to:

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