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Archiver > LONDON > 2002-08 > 1028832020


From: "Sandra Lovegrove" <>
Subject: Re: [Lon] Law Apprenticeship
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 19:40:20 +0100
References: <NDBBIEHJDJPLGGONDGKDKEFLGBAA.rovert@hotkey.net.au>


There are a number of points in this mail which do not represent the
position in England in either the 19th century, or modern times.

SOLICITORS
1. Formerly (until, I think, the1960s) it was possible for a young
person of matriculation standard education from age 16 years to be
apprenticed (serve in "articles") to a solicitor. In modern times the
requirement was 5 years. No university degree was necessary. A
university graduate would serve 2 years in articles. It was also
possible for an experienced law clerk to be admitted to the Roll as a
"ten-year-man".
2. Nowadays it is much more rigorous. It is necessary to have a
university degree. If not a law degree, a further year's study is
required for a diploma in law, currently called the CPE (Common
Professional Examination). There is then the one year's Legal Practice
Course, before finding a 2-year apprenticeship (now called a
traineeship).

Thereis a lot of wastage. More graduate than find traineeships.

BARRISTERS
<<Anyone can be a barrister - they are solicitors who appear in court
> and if you can afford a place in chambers then you can hang your
shingle
> there.
This is very definitely NOT the case, and never was. The professions of
barrister and solicitor are separate (except in modern New Zealand which
has a fused profession).

In former times, it was possible for a man of university-level education
to "read for the Bar" by serving his pupillage (apprenticeship) and
eating his dinners at his Inn of Court, with education provided by his
pupil-master under the nominal supervision of the Inn.

Nowadays to qualify a barrister must have:
1. a university degree (plus the year's CPE if not in law)
2. the one year Bar Vocational Course
3. membership of an Inn of Court
4. eaten the required number of dinners at the Inn
5. one year's pupillage (apprenticeship)
6. been called to the Bar

At this stage there is even more wastage than for solicitors. To
practise, the newly qualified barrister must overcome the most difficult
hurdle of all: finding a tenancy in chambers. Most fail.

SANDRA LOVEGROVE

Researching LOVEGROVEs in all places and at all times.
Please do visit the LOVEGROVE Information Centre on
http://www.lovegrove.org.uk



----- Original Message -----
From: "Trevor and Jill" <>
To: <>
Sent: 08 August 2002 03:33
Subject: RE: [Lon] Law Apprenticeship


> I am not aware of the practice in England but certainly when I started
in
> that field it was necessary to have a law degree and then move on to
do
> articles for a year. You could not be a lawyer or solicitor without
the
> degree. Anyone can be a barrister - they are solicitors who appear in
court
> and if you can afford a place in chambers then you can hang your
shingle
> there. A law clerk would not have had any particular training - just
picked
> up experience along the way. Articled clerks, when first out of
university
> were allowed to do things like weed the garden beds (if there were
any), go
> to the pub and pick up the booze and nibbles for the friday night "get
> together" and draft the odd document. As time passed they were
allowed into
> court to seek adjournments. This was generally because the Magistrate
was a
> horror and was going to do a lot of yelling before granting the
> adjournment - backbone building! You then moved onto the legal aid
clients
> and guilty pleas. During the 1980's the articled clerk system was
done away
> with and young lawyers spent an extra year at university doing
workshops
> with pretend clients. I understand that they have re-introduced
articled
> clerks and students may choose between the two systems. Some lawyers
did
> spend 5 years in part-time articles but they still needed to get a
degree.
>
> This of course is from my own perspective and may certainly have been
> different in the 1800's in England.
>
> Kind regards
> Jill
>

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