LONDON-L ArchivesArchiver > LONDON > 2009-03 > 1237056322
From: "Caroline Bradford" <>
Subject: Re: [LON] APPRENTICE PAPERS
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:45:22 -0000
You've got a really slippery one here! Firstly, though I hate to disappoint
you, apprentice records are not your best route. By the 19th century,
apprenticeships were, by and large, a private matter between master and
apprentice and there were no official records kept (except where a young lad
was under the care of the Parish authorities and they organised the
I don't think that destruction of BMD records is the problem here. Whilst
there is no doubt that the registration of a fair number of events were
"lost" in the various processes involved from initial registration to the
creation of the GRO index, the most likely reason for not finding a birth is
that it was either not registered at all or registered under an unexpected
name. As to marriages, the commonest reason for not finding them is because
they did not happen.
The fact that Ann Rose CHARLES married under that name in 1892 (I presume
that is she) is very suggestive of her never having been Mrs BARSBY at all
(women very rarely risked bigamous marriages). The very large gap between
the older and younger children in 1891 might indicate that the two groups
had different mothers.
There is a possible William BARSBY in 1881 married (or probably not!) to an
Elizabeth from Wales. I wonder if there is a link between this couple (who
have a 7 week old son called Alan) and the other family in the same street
whose name seems to have been written as "Bursby". There are two Allans in
that family and it was a very unusual name at the time.
Have you ruled out the William BARSBY born in Bethnal Green in Q4 1848? Or
the family in 1851 with father John and mother Sarah?
Hope some of this helps
From: [mailto:] On
Behalf Of Patricia Barsby
Sent: 14 March 2009 12:25
Subject: [LON] APPRENTICE PAPERS
I have reached a dead end and need some other avenue with which to look for
possible parentage, since many BMD records for the area seem to have been
Would anyone on the list know of where to look for any existing records/CD
for Carpentry/Chairmaker Apprentice papers for around 1860 onward covering
Whitechapel/Bethnal Green/Poplar areas.
I can get no further back on my BARBSY line than the approximate birth of
our WILLIAM PATTISON BARBSY circa 1848 in Whitechapel. He was a chairmaker
and later a toy-maker.
I have been in touch with Tower Hamlets Records Office and searched for
birth or marriage certificates with nothing forthcoming.
I do know that he married Ann Rose Charles and died at Poplar in 1896. I
also have the 1891 census of the family though nothing definate for earlier
years. The 1901 shows Ann in another relationship but the 1911 is much more
interesting in that it gives the number of children born as 10 and the
surving number as 5. Of these surviving children I only know of :
Ann born 1871 Shoreditch [no cert of birth or marriage]
Sarah born 1876 Whitechapel [no cert of birth or marriage]
William Pattison [birth/marriage/death found and direct line]
Lilian born 1894 Poplar [Birth/marriage/death found]
So if anyone can help or add anthing to the above that may offer new leads I
would be extremely grateful.
Thank you for your patience in reading through this far.
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