LONDON-L ArchivesArchiver > LONDON > 2009-11 > 1257119328
From: J K gen <>
Subject: Re: [LON] St Pancras parish church
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 23:48:48 +0000
This is very useful, and am grateful for exact information to remind
me of what I thought I knew. As I said I knew the why/s but not the
when/s and not all the detail you gave. Thank you.
This should also explain to the uninitiated why one record has two
sources, and even why it may appear that two titles are assigned to
the same source.
As for LMA's own catalogue, it only works if one knows what one is
looking for, and the point of a catalogue is that it should help when
one does not! The A2A data is much more comprehensible.
Generally, I find, the hierarchical archival referencing system is not
fit for the purpose of ordinary mortals, though it behoves us all to
learn how it works, if one has the time!
Many thanks again. Much appreciated.
On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 7:01 PM, JFHH <> wrote:
> Hi JK,
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "J K gen" <>
>> Can some kindly soul please remind me the cut-off date/s for the Old
>> and New Church records?
>> > I know the why/s, I just cannot remember the when/s!
>> > Many thanks> JK
> Basically the position is as I explain here:
> "St Pancras Old Church ceased to be the parish church of St Pancras in 1822
> when the St.Pancras New Church was opened and became a chapel of ease in the
> parish of St.Pancras.. In the 1852 Old St.Pancras was assigned a parish
> again, known as Old St.Pancras. For an unknown period from 1863 it was known
> as Pancras Parish Chapel, before reverting to Old St.Pancras again. It has a
> website. The LDS rather confusingly continues to call the registers for
> St.Pancras New, St Pancras Old"
> On that page, too, David Hawgood provides the official LMA catalogue title
> of each church.
> As the recent release of online LMA registers has demonstrated, St.Pancras
> Parish Church in Euston Road continued to insist [as the law demanded] that
> registrations of baptisms in daughter churches, such as Kentish Town Chapel
> (St.John Baptist) and Camden [Town] Chapel (All Saints) were also entered
> in the parent parish registers as well as those of the individual churches,
> until the daughter church became a legally separate parish. This accounts
> for the "double" baptism registrations for the first half the nineteenth
> This practice, which goes back to the first establishment of the chapels,
> will be found all across London. A feature, particularly noticeable at
> St.Pancras, is that the daughter church's baptisms were entered into the
> parent register at intervals, quarterly or annually, which accounts for the
> "blocks" of out-of-synch baptisms in the parent register - and means, if
> browsing the register, to look beyond the first occurrence of a, say,
> December entry..
> Dates of establishment of separate parishes can be found in Young's "Guide
> to the Local Administrative Units of England", but a rough estimate of the
> date can be obtain from the date of the commencement of the marriage
> registers, though a few daughter churches did establish the right to marry,
> before becoming separate parishes.
> Returning to St.Pancras in Particular, I notice that separate burial
> registers have survived for, among others, St.Pancras New Church, Kentish
> |Town Chapel, and St.Pancras. I do not know what "double entries" may occur
> in these.
> As a footnote, I now find the "Access to Archives" advanced search on TNA
> pages much easier to track down LMA holdings of registers that the LMA's own
> search engine.
> John Henley
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