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From:
Subject: Re: [LDR] Catherine HUSTON Williams
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:01:33 EST


Sometimes a child did precede a marriage, but that does not necessarily
prove that the husband was not the father. We need more Bastardy Bonds
transcribed!

Elizabeth

The Morgan Tabernacle Choir and the Amazing Flying Demon Cats


In a message dated 2/20/2010 2:24:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

I don't know if this helps or hinders, but I'm fairly certain I just found
out that one of my shirt-tail ancestors had a child (born 1859)before she
was married and was then married to another man who gave the child his name
by the 1860 census. This would really screw up those DNA tests. Just a
thought.

Joni

-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Mike Hitch
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 9:12 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [LDR] Catherine HUSTON Williams

I think you missed my point entirely. I get all the logical and scientific
'proof' of the DNA testing. My years of statistical and mathematical
studies
understands the hard aspects of the analyses completely. I am talking about
the "soft" aspects of the familial connections relative to genealogy.

What I am suggesting is that there is a possibility that a Mrs. Houston
fooled around with a Mr. X and it was not known by anyone at that time or
now - a son/daughter would be raised as a HOUSTON but be born of an
indiscretion (and I mentioned that such indiscretions seem to be not all
that uncommon based upon the early records of known activity extrapolated
into what I am sure is an even broader base of unknown activity) and nobody
would be the wiser. Now, in our modern world, we have DNA testing come
along
and shows no relationship - at least from a biological standpoint - and
that
is not arguable from rigorous scientific analyses.

But, does that mean that the child born of the indiscretion is not truly a
"Houston"? Or more correctly, does this ONLY suggest that another line of
HUSTON/HOUSTON begins at this point? That's the question and the dilemma
of
the DNA tests. While maybe NOT being biologically a Houston, the children
of
such forays would be named as such and grow up always believing that they
were indeed HOUSTONs (or HITCHes, or whatever)...so, my point again is that
a disconnect with the HUSTON/HOUSTON lines may not be due to one lineage
arriving in the area at a later time (but it might!) - however it could
simply be due to an indiscretion in the acts of our ancestors that was
previously unknown thus causing a biological disconnect but not a social
one. So to say that HUSTON/HOUSTON are not connected in a family way is
dubious and only true from a biological aspect and if that's all you wish
to
prove, then your analysis is correct! My point though, is you cannot
assume,
given this 'proof', that a separate line of HOUSTONs showed up when there
is
a perfectly plausible counter-argument of what I just explained! Make
sense,
now?

OKAY - JOHN POLK - I know you've done the DNA thing - tell me what I am
missing here, if anything!

I sent a link earlier about Moses and Peter Gordy possibly NOT being sons
of
the original Adrian Gordy? Did you read that. It addresses this dilemma and
asks the question, Does it really matter?

Best regards,
Mike Hitch
"So oftentimes it happens that we live our lives in chains and we never
even
know we have
the key." - Eagles
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
[mailto:]
> On Behalf Of
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 4:48 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [LDR] Catherine HUSTON Williams
>
>
> Mike, yes, I am confused! Let me outline my understanding of how
> these DNA groups work (more for the other people who may be reading
> who may not be familiar with the DNA studies). I am no scientist, so
> this is greatly simplified.
>
> The Y-DNA (male) studies analyze the DNA which is passed from father
> to son. It is important to note that the other thing that is passed
> from father to son is the family surname, which is why these two
> things work together to validate each other.
>
> The Y-DNA is so important and reliable, because it passes from father
> to son unchanged, except when there is a mutation. These mutations do
> not happen often; according to the DNA experts; statistically about
> every 7-8 generations.
>
> There are a variety of Y-DNA tests available, but the one that seems
> to be most suitable to genealogy is the Y-DNA 37 tests, which measures
> 37 separate loci (I'll just call them data points to be simple).
> Within a test group, the more the number of points you match someone
> on, the closer in time is the 'common ancestor' from whom you descend.
>
> There are really two stages to this:
>
> 1. A male with a surname enters the DNA test for that surname group,
> in my case the Houston group (I will call it the Houston group, but
> the spelling is not critical, as members of this extended family may
> be Houston or Huston or Heuston or Houstown or Hewston, etc). If a
> participant matches others in this group on a certain minimum number
> of critical data points, then that confirms that they are, in fact, a
> Houston (choose a spelling) when taken together with the fact that
> their name is Houston; in other words, the surname, passed from
> father to son, confirms the DNA, also passed from father to son.
>
> For those people who are named Houston, but who do not generally match
> the other Houstons on key DNA points, then we encounter the issue you
raised:
> that their paternity does not actually descend from a Houston male,
> even though their name may be Houston. (This is not necessarily true
> in the cases of common names like Smith, where there are multiple
> lines which are entirely distinct).
>
> Similarly, those people who may have a different surname but match the
> Houston DNA group, their paternity matches, even though their name does
not.
> Same situation for both these groups: either adoption or illegitimate
birth.
>
> The beauty of the DNA study is that it can help to identify these
> situations, since the DNA and name, when taken together, act as a
double-check.
>
> 2. Once the first part verifies that you ARE a Houston, the second
> part gives you an idea of the CLOSENESS you are to other
> participants. Here is where the mutations come in. The more data
> points you share, the closer in time is your common ancestor. With
> Dr. Houston, he and I shared about 30 of
> 37 data points. That means that enough time (from our common ancestor
to
> now) had elapsed to create 7 mutations. Since each mutation is
> (statistically) every 7-8 generations, that means that we would
> expect our common ancestor to be about 50 generations ago, so say
> 1000 years. According to DNA (and our surnames) we are both Houstons,
and
we are roughly 50th cousins.
>
> As for the fellow I matched on 36 of 37 data points, he and I would
> expect statistically to be 7th or 8th cousins. And guess what, the
> genealogy research we did confirmed that. The degree of closeness
> predicted by the DNA study turned out to be almost exactly right.
> According to DNA (and our
> surnames) we are both Houstons, and we turn out to be 7th cousins
> (once-removed).
>
> So I guess bottom line what I am saying is that this DNA testing is
> extremely valuable, because it can confirm that you are, in fact, a
> Houston (or Hitch), and then tell you how close you are to other
> members of your study group. If you are lucky enough to find a very
> close match, like I did, then when you both do your genealogies, it
> really helps you 'triangulate' to the granddaddy who was your common
ancestor.
>
> Regards,
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
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