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Archiver > MARKHAM > 2006-12 > 1164981911


From: "Karen Brandon" <>
Subject: Re: DNA Testing
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 09:05:11 -0500
References: <bf3.4e3ec99.32a065ce@aol.com><00b301c71543$73d3c900$4163cd44@cfl.rr.com>


Apologies, all. I wrote this e-mail at about 6 a.m. and apparently wasn't
awake enough to SPELL !

Also, I meant that other groups could be testing to see if they relate to
EACH OTHER as well as to Tommy's line. I asked Tommy to start fo purely
selfish reasons since I think his line is related to mine and Jan's and
Karen E's and he's in the DIRECT line from the Jennings Creek bunch.

Speaking of Tommy, I got my DVD and I know we aren't supposed to use the
list for any commercial purposes, but considering what went into it and the
nominal price he's charging, which just barely covers production and
shipping costs, I'd say it's more in the nature of a public service to those
of us who come from the Jennings Creek area.
The early photos are really amazing. My branch (and Jan's) split off for
Lee County by about 1840 but for those whose families stayed in Bedford, the
later photos are very interesting and moving. Now, Tommy, get going on
Botetourt County ! (There was a photo of the Bedford jail, but I want to see
a photo of the Botetourt jail where James B.E. Markham was held during his
trial for the murder of Nicholas Williams in 1811/12).

Have great days, everyone !

Karen B. (as opposed to Karen E !)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Brandon" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 7:23 AM
Subject: Re: DNA Testing


> Unfortunately, I am NOT by any means an authoriety on dna testing, but I
do
> know a little about it ONLY because of the project we are doing on the
> Pendergrass side. Let me explain a little, since some of the e-mails show
> that not everyone is up to date on what can be done these days.
>
> First, someone has to be the project coordinator. I don't really know how
> to do it and am not good with computers, but I'll undertake it if no one
> else will and can get info from the P. coordinator, who is a very nice
> person. The project coordinator has access to the data that is input from
> the samples and can compare the markers and so on. However, family tree
dna
> does this online, also.
>
> The submitter of the sample can remain anonymous (which doesn't do us a
lot
> of good, I guess) or can give an e-mail adress to be contacted by others
who
> log in. If i were the coordinator, I would need to know whose smaples had
> been submitted and what those results were in order to compare them with
one
> another.
>
> There are many types of dna tests, of course, but the one most used in
> genealogy is the Ydna for the FATHER's markers. The maternal line can be
> traced, too, but is much harder to track since women's names changed.
That
> doesn't mean you can't do it, just that going back a long way will be
> tougher.
>
> In the dna of every male, there is a tiny dna "snip" which contains
> infomation passed on from that male's father. The "snip" doesn't seem to
do
> anything else, but it remains virtually unchanged throughout the
> generations. There are some markers which never seem to mutate at all and
> others which mutate faster (change more quickly). If you test two males
and
> all their markers are identical, you can assume a close biological
> relationship. The more identical markers, obviously, the closer the
> relationship. If the males' last names are the same, the probability of a
> close rleationship goes up, and the more markers you test, the more
detailed
> info you can get.
>
> Two brothers or a father and son OUGHT to test out identically, and
usually
> do. A change in one marker doesn't mean they aren't related, but rather
> that a mutation occurred in one of them. Mutations occur randomly,
meaning
> they can happen at any point in the chain from father to son to son to
son,
> etc. Therefore, if a father and son test identically except for one
marker,
> no problem, but if they are 10 markers off, someone needs to have a talk
> with mama. (familytreedna tactfully calls this a "non-paternity") This
> would show someone who was adopted or otherwise not the biological child
of
> the father he thought he had.
>
> Okay. So the way it works is that we find someone like Tommy, for
example,
> who believes himself to be descended from Arthur Markham of Bedford County
> and maybe some generations before that. Tommy tests and we get 25 or 37
> markers and we then know what his paternal numbers are. I get my cousin
> Bobby or one of his sons to test
> since we think we are from the same line as Tommy. If the results match
up
> exactly or almost exactly, we know that Tommy's and my research are
verified
> and that we do descend from the same line. If we are off by several
> markers, we need to rethink and do more testing of close relatives to see
> what's going on. If the results are similar, then
> we know were on the right track and we get Jan Walther to find a Markham
> male descendant from her line to test since we think it is the same group,
> and we get Karen Evans to find a Markham male descendant of her group to
> test and so on.
>
> Meanwhile, other groups which think they are related are doing the same
> thing. If we find a match between someone in Tommy's group and someone
in,
> say, Green Berry Markham's group, or some other group, then we know we
are
> related to that group as well and can start making connections.
>
> For example, in our P group, there were two P families living near each
> other in NC and they shared a lot of similar first names, but dna testing
> showed that they were 17 out of 25 markers off and therefore obvioulsy not
> related to each other. We could then eliminate that whole BUNCH from out
> group and ignoe them in our search for my gggggrandfather's daddy. My
uncle
> had had my grandfather say something ugly about his mother decades ago and
> make the accusation that he was not his son (even though he was grandpa
P's
> spitting image). DNA testing showed that he matched his nephew exactly,
so
> we knew he grandpa was just being mean. Then, we tracked down a
descendant
> of our gggrandfather through a different son, and he matched "us" 23 for
25
> on a fast moving marker, BUT, he matched 24 for 25 to two North Carolina
> brothers I found who were desecended on paper from our gggggrandfather.
> Therefore, we KNOW we are all related and from the same line and that my
> paper research (doubted by some) was accurate all along.
>
> Now, mothers pass along a smilar dna "snip" to their daughters and a
> maternal line can be proved back, but only along the maternal line. It's
a
> lot harder to do because the women's names change in each generation. You
> would have to know your mother's maiden name and exactly who her mother
was
> and who her descendants and ascendants were for it to do any good, and
that
> isn't easy since women often weren't listed on the various documents at
all
> and their maiden names were lost to history at marriage unless a marriage
> bond or other legal info is found. If someone has a maternal line back a
> couple of generations and then ties into the Markham male line, the best
> thing to do would be to track down a male descendant of that line for
> testing.
>
> Both tests can give "haplotype" information, which is a very general
outline
> of the origins of the individual. (i.e. Africa, British Isles, Asia,
> American Indian and so forth). These results are interesting in tying down
> information you thought you had about where the family originated,
> (England?) but aren't a lot of help in sorting out the various family
lines
> in this country.
>
> I'll check out what's posted at familytreedna already and see where we
> should post our results since i don't know what group is already on there,
> but I don't think it's very complicated. If nothing else, Tommy can tell
us
> his numbers and we can compare them to others as they come in.
>
> Meanwhile, everybody be finding a direct male Markham descendant close to
> you for testing purposes !
>
> Karen B
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 11:50 AM
> Subject: Re: DNA Testing
>
>
> > Hey Karen,
> > You seem to be the authority on this DNA testing and I've been doing the
> > reading of it on this familytreedna site but still can't find some
answers
> to my
> > questions. Hoping that you can fill me in on them.
> > Firstoff, I went and searched for the Markham/Marcum groups and saw
where
> > Diana saw only 3 Markhams, but I think this was 3 hits with the Markham
> > information in them, right. So hopefully more than 3 individuals have
> submitted their
> > DNA.
> > You have been mentioning this Cumberland Gap group to submit to...and
the
> > Josiah in my line had at least one son born in Lee or Washington Co,
> VA...so I
> > may get some connections to the Markham/Marcum's in that area. But I
also
> > noticed a Marcum group and wondered about this one, but it had a 0 out
by
> it as if
> > no one had entered it. Also there were 2 British Isle Groups 1&2 that
> popped
> > up with our surname in it.
> > So which group would give us the most benefit overall?
> > And are any of the Chesterfield Co, VA Markhams involved I am wondering.
> > Supposedly this is where my line links back to, then the brick wall.
> > I also am very interested in knowing if we can submit to more than one
> group?
> > ...and if so, how that is done?
> > Since I'm wondering if my line is actually a McDonald...as the rumors
go.
> > And if when the results come back...they inform us of all the hits we
> matched
> > to...or can you get on the website and search yourself for hits...how
does
> that
> > work?
> > It mentioned they would email you if you had any "missing" cousins out
> there
> > that they discovered for us. And a Group Administrator that would have
> access
> > to certain documents of the group, but the individual would only be
given
> > their direct information.
> > So would the group administrator be figuring out how closely linked we
all
> > are since that person will have access to all the info, and that's who
we
> need
> > to refer to for future questions?
> >
> > Also...what exactly could we find out for our maternal line? I saw
where
> my
> > mother's surname is on here, and we have a pretty good handle on her
> paternal
> > side for about 8 generations...but I am curious about my mother's
> > grandmother's paternal line... when reading about the mtDNA project, it
> sounded to have
> > gone back just the female link altogether. I do still have a great
uncle
> still
> > alive that is a son of my mother's grandmother. I'm wanting to search
the
> Y
> > line, but if I did my great uncle...that would be his Y line and that is
> > another line altogether. I guess what I have to do is what you said
about
> your
> > Marcum line...find a male ...I suppose the male has to carry that same
> last name?
> > Geez....I'm confusing myself...this mtDNA stuff is confusing.
> > But it brings to mind what may have happened way back when and why it's
> too
> > hard to find more about my line of Marcums. Possibly she was an
unmarried
> > daughter...and took the name of Marcum because he was illegitimate...How
> could
> > this be read in our reports?
> > I have a friend that had their lines done...they were Elliott's and they
> can
> > go back 7 generations and nothing...he was the first to move into Ashe
Co,
> NC,
> > but there are Elliotts in Tennessee and lower VA that could be kin.
When
> the
> > test was done with other Elliotts...he didn't match to any of the
others,
> but
> > did match exactly with one, and they had the exact same difference in
one
> > area with both of their results that the other's didn't have...
> > could that be where a daughter had children out of wedlock I wonder?
> > And both lines carried the Elliott name on down to now because of her
> > paternal side.
> > Rhoda
> >
> > -------------------------------
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