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From:
Subject: Re: [MASSEY] MASSEY Digest, Vol 5, Issue 95
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 00:00:28 EDT



I am always interested in any research on the Masseys. My brick wall is
still my gggg-grandfather Joshua Massey, b. abt. 1760-1770 in maybe NC, m.
Nancy Piety August 18,1790 in Nelson Co. KY, d. 1832, St. Louis Co., MO.
His second marriage was to Sarah Whiteside. His son stated on the 1880
census that his father was born in NC. He seems to have had a brother or other
close relative, William Massey, who settled near St. Louis early. The
family seems to have moved around a lot. At one time I received a tip that
the family may have come from the Dutch Country of PA. Joshua's son William
married Magdalene Metz whose family came from PA. Common names in this
line are Joshua, William, Thomas, Samuel, and John. I am now retired and hope
to be able to spend some time tracking down these Masseys.
Barbara in Georgia.



In a message dated 8/21/2010 10:49:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:



Today's Topics:

1. Re: from New Kent & Goochland, VA (Patti Waitman-Ingebretsen)
2. Re: Ancestors of the Masseys in the James River Area of
Virginia ()
3. Re: Ancestors of the Masseys in the James River Area
ofVirginia (Theron Smith)
4. Origins of the Masseys (Donald Massey)
5. Re: Origins of the Masseys ()
6. Re: Origins of the Masseys (jimsnodgrass tds.net)
7. Re: Ancestors of the Masseys in the James River Area of
Virginia (jimsnodgrass tds.net)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 07:15:29 -0700
From: "Patti Waitman-Ingebretsen" <>
Subject: Re: [MASSEY] from New Kent & Goochland, VA
To: <>
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

My Massey story is that part of the family changed the spelling to MASSIE
because their mail was confused with thier cousins. I see the named
spelled both ways.

Does anyone connect to this line & is it documented in a book?

David Lovejoy Massie b 1811 Brown Co, OH, d aft 1876 IL
(wife Sarah Fenton)

Benjamin Massie b 1768 Goochland Co, Va, d 1847 Adams Co, OH
(wife Elizabeth Lovejoy)

William Massie b 1745 New Kent Co, VA, d 1796 Goochland Co, VA
(wife Frances Adams)

Peter Massie b 1700 New Kent, VA, d 1762 Goochland Co, VA
(wife Ann Raymond)

thanks,
Patti

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 14:55:57 +0000 (UTC)
From:
Subject: Re: [MASSEY] Ancestors of the Masseys in the James River Area
of Virginia
To: Theron Smith <>,
Message-ID:
<
omcast.net>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8



Theron,



I am always interested in your posts and this sounds like a very
interesting topic. Trying to learn as much about my heritage as I can from as many
sources as possible.



Debra Massey Houston


----- Original Message -----
From: "Theron Smith" <>
To:
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 10:02:34 PM
Subject: [MASSEY] Ancestors of the Masseys in the James River Area
of????????Virginia

Since it's beginning to look like there won't be another Massey book
published in my lifetime, I keep my eyes wide open all the time [to quote
from a song by Massey descendant, Johnny Cash] to see if we missed
anything
in the available data that would shed any light on our Masseys earlier
than
Hezekiah2, Joseph2, and Richard2 and their possible father, Richard1 of
Charles City Co., VA [CCC from hereon] ?Keep reading. It's possible that
we
did miss something. In its abbreviated discussion of the 1636 John Massey
[Marsee] ?head right; referred to as John0 in what follows]. , ?Massey
Genealogy 2000 mentioned two points which had not been mentioned nor
analyzed nor commented on in earlier publications. In particular, two
additional interesting observations can now be made about the 1636 head
right.
?(1)The 1636 head right spells the surname in at least one place as
"Marsee."
See further comments in a later post.
?(2) The 2000 book explicitly mentions that the 1636 head right is in the
CCC area.
?I don't believe any of the published Massey genealogies emphasized or
commented on the fact -- ?that John of the 1636 head right and Richard1
Massey were both of the CCC area. ?[Actually, referring to the area on
interest as the James River area would probably be more meaningful.]
Anyway,
Masseys are found in ?this area before Richard1. This fact could lend some
support to the earlier John0 being of the sane family as the ancestor of
Richard1 et al!
?In early unpublished papers and prior to the publication of his first
book
in 1974, Judge Massey speculated that the father of Richard2 [m.Ann
Pettipool] was a Richard1 of Charles City Co., VA. He later decided that
the
father was John1 whom he considered a brother of Richard1.The later choice
was partially based on Judge Massey's incorrect date [1720] for the first
Poll List ?[1748] for Brunswick Co. [VA.] By the time of Massey Addendum
[1979], he had tentatively concluded that three pioneer Massey men
[Hezekiah2, Joseph2, and Richard2] were sons of a John1 (probable son of
the
1636 John0.) To simplify, he misidentified John3 son of Joseph2 in the
poll
list with a John1 son of John0 ?(the one of the 1636 head right.)
?More importantly, ?a correct dating of the first Poll List for Brunswick
Co. [VA] does not disprove the suggestion that there was a relationship
between John Massey of 1636 and the brothers Hezekiah, Joseph, and
Richard,
but further analysis of this scenario is beyond the scope of this post.
?Almost exactly 10 years ago, Massey Genealogy 2000 placed Richard Massey
[call him Richard1], ?a documented inhabitant of Charles City Co., VA
before
and after 1700, as the father of the three alleged brothers. This is a
reasonable but not completely proven hypothesis - i.e., Richard1 ?is
probably the father of Joseph2 and Richard2 of Prince George Co., VA
derived
from CCC in 1702/3 , but maybe only a close relative of Hezekiah2 of Surry
Co., derived from James City Co., VA in 1652. [Other facts have convinced
some of us that there were probably also at least one other Massey male in
the area in the generation of ?Hezekiah2, Joseph2, and Richard2.]
?It is important to know that several documented descendants of Hezekiah2,
Joseph2, and Richards2 (as well as from possibly another Massey male of
the
same generation) who have Y-chromosome DNA results on record close enough
to
indicate that they are of the same patrilineal family. These results are
all
documented in Group 1 of the Massey DNA Project, which can be viewed at:
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~mandaley/MasseyDNA.html

?At the present time, there are two hypotheses in the offing regarding the

English ancestry of the Masseys of Charles City and neighboring counties
of
Virginia. These will be discussed in later posts. I would also love to
know
who is still interested in this topic.

Questions, comments, and (yes!) challenges are welcome - either to the
list
or to my personal Email address above.

Regards to all,
Theron Smith

?
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and
the body of the message


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 11:42:57 -0500
From: "Theron Smith" <>
Subject: Re: [MASSEY] Ancestors of the Masseys in the James River Area
ofVirginia
To: <>, <>
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
reply-type=original

----- Original Message -----
From:
To: Theron Smith ;
Cc:
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: [MASSEY] Ancestors of the Masseys in the James River Area
ofVirginia
Theron,
I am always interested in your posts and this sounds like a very
interesting
topic. Trying to learn as much about my heritage as I can from as many
sources as possible.
Debra Massey Houston

My most intriguing Massey problem topic after the European ancestors of
the
James River Masseys is how the various Eli Masseys in GA [one of which is
your line] are related to my line, if indeed they are related.
I'm especially interested in Eli Massey and his relatives who lived in
1850 Muscogee Co., GA where my ggg gf Barachias Massey is found,]
Theron



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 20:00:42 +0100
From: "Donald Massey" <>
Subject: [MASSEY] Origins of the Masseys
To: "Massey Rootsweb" <>
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

The BBC have just run a series on the Normans, and although they did not
mention the name Massey (or any other so far as I remember), there was
information which may be of interest to any Massey researchers.

The consensus seems to be that the name springs from several places in
Normandy (France), but the Normans originally came from Scandinavia, and
settled in what became Normandy. Various princes and barons began to
spread
their influence in many other parts pf Europe, usually by conquering, and
then by assimilating the local population.

That explains how the name spread to England, for example, and there is no
reason to exclude the spread to Ireland and other parts of the British
Isles
either from England or direct from Normandy.

The Normans also began to invade Italy and Sicily shortly before they
invaded England (1066 in case you have forgotten!), and I have previously
speculated in this List whether the Masi families of Italy (known these
days
in both wine producing and rugby football circles) were linked to "us."
This new information make it likely that they are.

So far as the New World is concerned, the Masseys could have spread from
any
part of Europe, and it is good to know that no longer does everyone assume
that they are descended from dear old Harmon of Dunham Massey, Cheshire.

The spelling of the name is irrelevant: my family have it spelt in several

ways in various old parish registers.

Donald Massey




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 21:29:03 +0000 (UTC)
From:
Subject: Re: [MASSEY] Origins of the Masseys
To:
Message-ID:
<
omcast.net>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8



Dear List,



I am interested in the change of the name from a predominant spelling of
Massey (and variations) to Marcey (with some variations).? Theron mentioned
a Marsee spelling in a recent post.? I know that my most-distant proven
ancestor?generally had his name spelled Massey (or a close variation).? I
recently came across a book at the DAR library which discusses the Masseys of
Maryland and how many of them came from an area where the pronounciation of
the name had a distinct 'R' sound, thus the spelling became Marcey as that
family moved into Delaware and further north.? I had already proposed to my
cousins that the name Massey in Virginia was sometimes pronounced "Mah' -
see" ('a' as in father) rather than "Maa' - see" ('a' as in cat)?and the
southern dialect inserted an "r" so that, at least in some branches,?it began
to be pronounced and spelled as "Mar'-see."? From the library book I read
(sorry I don't have my notes with me) it seems possible that the different
pronunciations !
were evident even before the?families came to the New World.?



I descend from John Massey who lived in?Fairfax Co., VA at least from the
1780s to abt. 1800.? I'm sure?he actually lived in the area that is now
Arlington County.?? From tax records I know that he had two sons, Thomas and
Samuel, born abt. 1768 and 1770.? Both sons married and had families.? Both
lines began using the spelling Marcey as the predominant choice, as it
remains today for all branches of this line that I know.?



Thomas moved to Georgetown and had several proven and a couple of possible
children.? Samuel remained in the north Arlington area (name changes of
Fairfax Co., VA;?then Alexandria Co., DC; then Alexandria Co, VA; and?now
Arlington Co., VA), where he leased land from George Mason near the Potomac
River.? He had several sons who?later purchased?the land?and the Marcey
family and name are well-established in that area.



I only know one male Marcey at this time and I would love?for?him to do a
DNA test to see if there is a connection of our John Massey to other
Virginia Masseys, or if perhaps?John Massey?migrated across from Maryland.?
Unfortunately I am not in contact with him, although I could perhaps contact
him through a cousin.? Since many people do not understand that the name has
changed over the years, I don't know if there are any?other Marcey
descendants on this list.



Mention was made of any new Massey books - well, I'm working on a
Massey/Marcey book starting with the Samuel Massey/Marcey line.? I hope to have it
ready this fall.? Unfortunately I can't go back past John Massey, but I
have a fairly complete picture of the family living in Arlington County as
that area developed.



Note:? The mention of the Masi name is of interest to me because there
were Masi families in Georgetown at the same time as Thomas.? Thomas' daughter
Jane married John Payne and her name was spelled Massi in the church
record.? It was confusing for a time, until we made the connection with the
Marcey families of Georgetown and Alexandria County.



If anyone knows anything about this family I'd love to receive and share
more information.



Brenda Payne Rose

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 22:42:57 -0400
From: "jimsnodgrass tds.net" <>
Subject: Re: [MASSEY] Origins of the Masseys
To:
Message-ID:
<>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

please also note that the old English style of writing had an unusual look
when a double ss was being written' the first s was made to look like an
inverted f and it was easily misread later as an r for Marsey, Marsee, etc.
My wife is of the lineof Thomas Marsee who was at Cumberland Gap by the
1790s and 3 DNA tests have concluded he was a Massey and connected to the
Jospeh Massey who died 1762 and whose realives settled primarily in the
Waxhaw region of NC, SC.
Jim Knoxville, Tnl.
Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 5:29 PM, <> wrote:

>
>
> Dear List,
>
>
>
> I am interested in the change of the name from a predominant spelling of
> Massey (and variations) to Marcey (with some variations). Theron
mentioned
> a Marsee spelling in a recent post. I know that my most-distant proven
> ancestor generally had his name spelled Massey (or a close variation). I
> recently came across a book at the DAR library which discusses the
Masseys
> of Maryland and how many of them came from an area where the
pronounciation
> of the name had a distinct 'R' sound, thus the spelling became Marcey as
> that family moved into Delaware and further north. I had already
proposed
> to my cousins that the name Massey in Virginia was sometimes pronounced
> "Mah' - see" ('a' as in father) rather than "Maa' - see" ('a' as in cat)
and
> the southern dialect inserted an "r" so that, at least in some branches,
it
> began to be pronounced and spelled as "Mar'-see." From the library book
I
> read (sorry I don't have my notes with me) it seems possible that the
> different pronunciations were evident even before the families came to
the
> New World.
>
>
>
> I descend from John Massey who lived in Fairfax Co., VA at least from the
> 1780s to abt. 1800. I'm sure he actually lived in the area that is now
> Arlington County. From tax records I know that he had two sons,
Thomas and
> Samuel, born abt. 1768 and 1770. Both sons married and had families.
Both
> lines began using the spelling Marcey as the predominant choice, as it
> remains today for all branches of this line that I know.
>
>
>
> Thomas moved to Georgetown and had several proven and a couple of
possible
> children. Samuel remained in the north Arlington area (name changes of
> Fairfax Co., VA; then Alexandria Co., DC; then Alexandria Co, VA; and now
> Arlington Co., VA), where he leased land from George Mason near the
Potomac
> River. He had several sons who later purchased the land and the Marcey
> family and name are well-established in that area.
>
>
>
> I only know one male Marcey at this time and I would love for him to do a
> DNA test to see if there is a connection of our John Massey to other
> Virginia Masseys, or if perhaps John Massey migrated across from
Maryland.
> Unfortunately I am not in contact with him, although I could perhaps
contact
> him through a cousin. Since many people do not understand that the name
has
> changed over the years, I don't know if there are any other Marcey
> descendants on this list.
>
>
>
> Mention was made of any new Massey books - well, I'm working on a
> Massey/Marcey book starting with the Samuel Massey/Marcey line. I hope
to
> have it ready this fall. Unfortunately I can't go back past John Massey,
> but I have a fairly complete picture of the family living in Arlington
> County as that area developed.
>
>
>
> Note: The mention of the Masi name is of interest to me because there
were
> Masi families in Georgetown at the same time as Thomas. Thomas'
daughter
> Jane married John Payne and her name was spelled Massi in the church
> record. It was confusing for a time, until we made the connection with
the
> Marcey families of Georgetown and Alexandria County.
>
>
>
> If anyone knows anything about this family I'd love to receive and share
> more information.
>
>
>
> Brenda Payne Rose
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
>


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 22:49:13 -0400
From: "jimsnodgrass tds.net" <>
Subject: Re: [MASSEY] Ancestors of the Masseys in the James River Area
of Virginia
To: Theron Smith <>,
Message-ID:
<AANLkTimTs6+>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

very very interested and have a feeling of guilt since I do not think I can
contribute anything.
Jim Knoxville

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Theron Smith <> wrote:

> Since it's beginning to look like there won't be another Massey book
> published in my lifetime, I keep my eyes wide open all the time [to quote
> from a song by Massey descendant, Johnny Cash] to see if we missed
anything
> in the available data that would shed any light on our Masseys earlier
than
> Hezekiah2, Joseph2, and Richard2 and their possible father, Richard1 of
> Charles City Co., VA [CCC from hereon] Keep reading. It's possible that
we
> did miss something. In its abbreviated discussion of the 1636 John Massey
> [Marsee] head right; referred to as John0 in what follows]. , Massey
> Genealogy 2000 mentioned two points which had not been mentioned nor
> analyzed nor commented on in earlier publications. In particular, two
> additional interesting observations can now be made about the 1636 head
> right.
> (1)The 1636 head right spells the surname in at least one place as
> "Marsee."
> See further comments in a later post.
> (2) The 2000 book explicitly mentions that the 1636 head right is in the
> CCC area.
> I don't believe any of the published Massey genealogies emphasized or
> commented on the fact -- that John of the 1636 head right and Richard1
> Massey were both of the CCC area. [Actually, referring to the area on
> interest as the James River area would probably be more meaningful.]
> Anyway,
> Masseys are found in this area before Richard1. This fact could lend
some
> support to the earlier John0 being of the sane family as the ancestor of
> Richard1 et al!
> In early unpublished papers and prior to the publication of his first
book
> in 1974, Judge Massey speculated that the father of Richard2 [m.Ann
> Pettipool] was a Richard1 of Charles City Co., VA. He later decided that
> the
> father was John1 whom he considered a brother of Richard1.The later
choice
> was partially based on Judge Massey's incorrect date [1720] for the first
> Poll List [1748] for Brunswick Co. [VA.] By the time of Massey Addendum
> [1979], he had tentatively concluded that three pioneer Massey men
> [Hezekiah2, Joseph2, and Richard2] were sons of a John1 (probable son of
> the
> 1636 John0.) To simplify, he misidentified John3 son of Joseph2 in the
poll
> list with a John1 son of John0 (the one of the 1636 head right.)
> More importantly, a correct dating of the first Poll List for
Brunswick
> Co. [VA] does not disprove the suggestion that there was a relationship
> between John Massey of 1636 and the brothers Hezekiah, Joseph, and
Richard,
> but further analysis of this scenario is beyond the scope of this post.
> Almost exactly 10 years ago, Massey Genealogy 2000 placed Richard Massey
> [call him Richard1], a documented inhabitant of Charles City Co., VA
> before
> and after 1700, as the father of the three alleged brothers. This is a
> reasonable but not completely proven hypothesis - i.e., Richard1 is
> probably the father of Joseph2 and Richard2 of Prince George Co., VA
> derived
> from CCC in 1702/3 , but maybe only a close relative of Hezekiah2 of
Surry
> Co., derived from James City Co., VA in 1652. [Other facts have convinced
> some of us that there were probably also at least one other Massey male
in
> the area in the generation of Hezekiah2, Joseph2, and Richard2.]
> It is important to know that several documented descendants of
Hezekiah2,
> Joseph2, and Richards2 (as well as from possibly another Massey male of
the
> same generation) who have Y-chromosome DNA results on record close enough
> to
> indicate that they are of the same patrilineal family. These results are
> all
> documented in Group 1 of the Massey DNA Project, which can be viewed at:
> http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~mandaley/MasseyDNA.html
>
> At the present time, there are two hypotheses in the offing regarding
the
> English ancestry of the Masseys of Charles City and neighboring counties
of
> Virginia. These will be discussed in later posts. I would also love to
know
> who is still interested in this topic.
>
> Questions, comments, and (yes!) challenges are welcome - either to the
list
> or to my personal Email address above.
>
> Regards to all,
> Theron Smith
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
>


------------------------------

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End of MASSEY Digest, Vol 5, Issue 95
*************************************


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