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Archiver > MONMOUTHSHIRE > 2001-04 > 0986501649


From: "Hugh Wallis" <>
Subject: RE: [Mon] Re: Mynyddislwyn
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 16:14:09 -0400
In-Reply-To: <009e01c0be0a$a8527320$a5837ed4@oemcomputer>


Thanks John - I had wondered if Islwyn might have just been a name. I think
the [i] vs. [u] discussion might actually technically be resolved by using
the phoenetic 'schwa' sound (written in the international phoenetic alphabet
as a sort of a backwards lower case e) which is a vowel made right in the
middle of the mouth and, on its own, sounds more like a grunt than anything
else. I suspect that this has a tendency to migrate towards other vowels
(like [u] and [i]) depending on the geography of the speaker and and the
position of the vowel in the word. You are a heck of a lot closer in Swansea
than I am in Canada (even though my Mum was from Cardiff - so she beats
you!!) so I'm sure you are 99.999% times more likely to be right than me!!

Diolch

Hugh

-----Original Message-----
From: John Ball [mailto:]
Sent: April 5, 2001 15:58
To:
Subject: Re: [Mon] Re: Mynyddislwyn


Hugh Wallis <> wrote:
Mynydd means mountain - pronounced [minith] ([th] as in English 'then').
Not being a native Welsh speaker I'm not certain but I suspect that the
rest of the name comes from 'is' meaning 'under' (pronounced as in
English 'hiss' without the 'h') and 'llwyn' meaning 'grove or bush'
(pronounced [loo win] - almost - the 'll' is aways a challenge to write
phonetically in English - maybe [thloo win] would be closer)
Put that together and you get the 'mountain under the bush' which I
interpret to mean a mountain covered by vegetation, pronounced
[minith-iss-loo-win] (the stress being on the 'iss' bit).
and Al <> wrote:
try this - munn ith(as in with) iss loo in. One possible meaning is
mountain grove
===========

Hi Hugh and Al,

I'm not a native Welsh speaker either, but although I agree that your
interpretations of the meaning of Mynyddislwyn are logical, it could
simply mean "Islwyn's mountain" - Islwyn being a male personal name.

Also I with Al's suggested pronunciation of "Munnith" rather than
"Minnith". Certainly, in the Swansea area we pronounce the first "y"
with a "u" sound, and many pronounce the second "y" in a similar way,
giving "Munnuth".
Tony Leaver (1998) suggests the pronunciation is "Munnith".
However I agree that "islwyn" is pronounced "iss-loo-in".

Source: LEAVER, Tony, 1998. "Pronouncing Welsh Place Names". Gwasg
Carreg Gwalch. Llanrwst. ISBN 0-86381-482-4

Best wishes,

John
----------------------------------
John Ball, South Wales, UK
E-mail:
Welsh Family History Archive: http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/index.htm


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