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Archiver > Mariners > 2004-04 > 1081060584


From: <>
Subject: Re: [Mar] Naval Query
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 07:37:25 +0100
References: <001101c419bd$82c57af0$71d62b50@DB52SK0J> <vvbu609squi0f9h7feg453bttbbr8tre8b@4ax.com>


Hi Paul
Many thanks for your response.
Yesterday I searched ADM188/1137 & 1160 the series for ratings, but did not
find my grandfather Harry Duffin (born 1889, Hull, Yorks)
I know he was still living at home on the 1901 census.
Another lister had previously checked the Navy List for 1905/14/18/20 but
did not find a listing for him as an officer.
I have a pic of him in Naval uniform, which can be viewed on my website
http://www.stevejgarton.co.uk/ using the link on the home page. This pic to
me shows him in an "ordinary" ? seamans uniform, can someone please
confirm/contradict ? In which case I should have found him in ADM188 should
I not ?

Any help would be most appreciated.

Cheers
Steve Garton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Benyon" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Mar] Naval Query


> Hi Steve
>
> By this time ie the start of the 20th Century, the age limit on entry
> would probably have been 14 for ratings, or at least it was supposed
> to be - although officer cadets could still enter at 13 as they were
> considered still to be receiving full time education - by the time of
> the Great War the minimum age for ratings had increased to 15ΒΌ, but as
> you say many lads exacerbated their ages to obtain entry and since the
> RM recruiting sergeants appear to have received a small bonus for each
> recruit they would appear to have totally ignored the rules which
> required parents' or guardians' approval and proof of age, as long as
> the boy was thought to be mentally and physically suitable for the
> service.
>
> If he served at some time as an officer your starting point should
> probably the Navy Lists, published quarterly in peace time ; with
> those published during the Great War, originally classified, now
> available on open shelves I believe ?
>
> In addition to the RN Minesweepers there were many hundreds of
> trawlers assigned to this work, many of which continued their work,
> and suffered further casualties long after the end of the war
>
> Since the variables are so great, especially when a major conflict is
> in progress, I should be reluctant to even guess how quickly a rating
> could attain the rank of Lt Cdr. But that said there was recently a
> thread on the list regarding an apparent former lower decker who was
> promoted through the Mate system who was the equivalent of a
> Lieutenant by the time of Jutland in 1916, which is about as close as
> I would dare go ! But there are so many variables in these
> circumstances - with acting ranks being handed out on a temporary
> basis in some circumstances - with some being confirmed and others
> not.
>
> But as I always say in these circumstances - why not include a name!!!
> someone on the list might have a tid-bit on this person which might
> start your ball rolling..
>
> You are probably aware of them, but in case not there are a number of
> useful PRO leaflets for RN researchers at:
>
> http://www.pro.gov.uk/leaflets/Riindex.htm#R
>
> Regards
>
> Paul
>
> On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 21:51:56 +0100, <> wrote:
>
> >I have had a frustrating day at Kew trying to track down the naval
service
> >record of my grandfather. Some of the frustration resulted from leaving
> >some vital information at home and having to second guess on dates etc,
not
> >a good idea.
> >
> >I have info from an aunt that (A) he served in the Royal Navy as a
> >Lieutenant Commander, (B) he served on a minesweeper in WW1 and (C) he
ran
> >away from home to join the Navy and lied about his age to enlist.
> >
> >I have the following questions which will hopefully help me for my next
> >visit to the PRO:
> >1 He was born in 1889, at that time what was the entry age limit ?
> >2 If he did run away to join the force presumably joining as a rating,
what
> >would be the likely timescale for him to have risen to the post of
> >Lieutenant Commander ?
> >3 If he served on a minesweeper would that necessarily have been a Royal
> >Naval vessel, could it have been a seconded trawler ?
> >
> >Hoping someone can help.
> >
> >Cheers
> >Steve Garton
> >
> >
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