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Archiver > McCARTY > 2000-07 > 0963019170


From: "Erin Mason" <>
Subject: Re: [McCARTY-L] Silas McCarty
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 21:19:30 -0400
References: <7e.72ebcdf.26977852@aol.com> <006601bfe851$65317bc0$48c3accf@r2j9i7> <037e01bfe84c$5e744560$c3a0bbd1@mason.com> <008201bfe87b$c7b1c140$48c3accf@r2j9i7>


I have just found a record of interest on www.familysearch.org. It claims
that Silas McCarty, born about1700 is son to John McCarty and Ann Harmon.
This is the same Silas listed as married to Sarah Carrell in 1722.
Conflicting records list Silas' birthplace as Ireland and Bucks Co. PA.
John McCarty is listed as b.1660. Another record shows that Silas had 2
brothers: Cornelius b. 1697 in Ireland and Edward b. 1703. Silas and Edward
are listed as having died in Haycock Twnshp, PA and Cornelius is listed as
having died in Bensalem Twp. PA. Can you make anything of this?

Erin
----- Original Message -----
From: H. S. Patton <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [McCARTY-L] Silas McCarty


> I was working on a rather long piece on this scots-Iriah business and
family
> legends. But in the meantime it is noteworthy that none of the so called
> family legends I have investigated wre particularely accurate. My Bowen
> family had a long time story that their ancestor had arrivedfrom Ireland
> durring the potatoe famine. As it t urned out the name is welsh and the
> ancestor arrived from Liverpool England about 200 years earlier than their
> story prdicted. As a matter of fact they had no Irish ancestors that I
have
> yet found and I have all of the lines back before the Rev War right here.
In
> my father's family they had a long running legend that came from the Dunn
> side that the first of that line to arrive in magoffin County was a teen
age
> boy who was dark skinned like an Indian. That they never knew his real
name
> but the people who adopted him named him Will Dunn, because everyone had
> nick named him Well Done because of his complexion. They had long heard he
> was a Cherokee, While a fanciful story and the American Indian
Connection
> was partially correct, the American Indian Connection in this Dunn Family
> turns out to have been Creek Indians. And the fellow who first arrived was
> long acquainted with the families who arrived with him and his wife and
> children.
>
> I have no idea one way or another about Silas, or Rowland. But Rowland is
a
> French Folk hero associated with Charlemagne, perhaps not th eactual
person
> Charles the first but the Charlemagne of legend. Silas is associated with
> the bible, but it is also common to Norman French families of that era.
The
> fact that Silas is associated with Haycock and Bucks County suggests a tie
> to several other McCarties in that area who may predate his "Arival, In
> Particular some associate this family group with John McCarty who Married
> Anne Harmon (Possibly this name Harman has Norman origins, it could have
> originated any where in the Brittish Isles or in France or parts of
Germany
> for that matter.) I have been meaning to see if I could find roots for
that
> name. Anyone any Ideas? if she were Norman that would possibly account for
> the many french sounding names associated with early families from this
area
> which do not seem to match up with typicval Baptist names, Most of which
> have Old Testiment origins. the names in queation are Nicholas, Silas,
> Richard, Henry, (From Daniel McCarty's line), Margurite and Maria. Others
> which seem to have come with them and are constantly repeated, but
seemngly
> at odds with the Baptist naming practice are Thomas, William, James
Mary,
> Margaret, Nancy and Sarah. Not that any of the last group are that
uncommon
> but they are more often found together in this family than any other name
> and more often in the same ofr similar order in several connected families
> than would reasonably explain itself by coincidence. Another name which
> suddenly and simultaneously turned up in three seemingly unconnected
> familiea along with the usual list and a few biblical additions was Abner.
> Peculiarly all 5 abners on my list wre born within a 10 year period and 3
of
> them within a 2 year period between 1797 and 1999! that might even include
> two others born to what appear to be female siblings of these McCarty
sons.
>
> As for doccumentation, while all of these factors are reasonable clues
that
> can assist in investigating possible connections they are hardly
> doccumentation. While certain facts like a ship's manifest or related
> family in the vacinity of origin at a similar date may suggest origin even
> this can be misleading. the Daparture port may have been merely a waypoint
> in the route many of our ancestors took to come here. No one is suggesting
> that the puritans who arrived at Plymouth Rock were Dutch, but that was
> where they arrived from. There is no question that the name McCarty
belongs
> to the Irish as far back as the surname origin. But members of this family
> found themselves as scattered as most of the families of this troubled
land.
> Still of all the countries of refuge, Scotland is the least likely. The
> Scotts-Irish term more correctly applies to families whose origins are in
> Scotland but who were transplanted bu Cromwell after William's succesful
> campaign against James because it was felt that their protestant faith was
> less of a threat than their Irish Cousins, at least they owed no
allegiance
> to Rome. Long story, that, But a review of Irish history will make any one
> doubt that even a protestant converted Irishman would seek refuge among
> those who served as mercinaries against them. But it is also noteworthy
that
> the Clan McCarty had pledged loyalty to Henry VIII although that loyalty
was
> to lead them shame in the reign Of Elizabeth the first who required the
head
> of the clan to convert to the Anglican Church as proof of his loyalty and
to
> surrender his lands to the crown for her to restore as an act of
submission
> dspite his pledge to her father. While he did so, he later came to regret
it
> and left for france after returning to the Catholic faith, simply because
of
> the shame of surrendering his pride.
>
> Steve Patton
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Erin Mason <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 3:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [McCARTY-L] Silas McCarty
>
>
> > I do not KNOW that Silas was Scotts-Irish. Neither do I have
documentary
> > proof that he was an imigrant either. I only have documents relating
> Silas
> > and Roland leaving Scottland for Ireland and then emigrating to America
> and
> > reference to James McCarty, Silas' grandson as being of Scot-Irish
> descent.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: H. S. Patton <>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 4:24 PM
> > Subject: Re: [McCARTY-L] Silas McCarty
> >
> >
> > > Paul
> > > I believe that was suposition on her part about Silas being
> Scotts-Irish.
> > I
> > > have neve seen doccumentary proof that Silas was even an imigrant, but
> the
> > > story persists. Judging from the names of the others in this family I
> > would
> > > sooner believe he was Norman Irish and Celtic Irish.If anything
severalk
> > of
> > > the given names sound more French in flavor. And with any knowledge of
> > > conditions in Ireland at the time it would be more likely. The
> nameMcCarty
> > > is Irish, but for some unknown reason I cannot fathom many people
assume
> > > that Mc acd Mac prefixes are Scottish or Irish resettled Scotts.
Though
> > the
> > > western Irish are close kin to the southern Scotts, there were some
> bitter
> > > feelings extending from Cromwells time toward all Scotts by even the
> > > Protestant converts among the Irish. Most of the intermarriages did
not
> > > occur until they were in this country a while. There is another thing
> > about
> > > the McCarty Converts to protestantism, the original converts were
> > attempting
> > > to preserve their lands and defending themselves from traditional clan
> > > enemies who vied for the same territory by allying themselves with
Henry
> > > VIII. Because of latert abuses by ElizabethI many became disenchanted
> with
> > > the crown and either reconverted and exiled themselves or moved on
after
> > the
> > > penal laws and English Primogency rules made inheriting a piece of
their
> > > fathers land impossible. That alone brought many Irish to this
country,
> as
> > > well as many Scotts who had been resettled in Ireland by Cromwell. If
> > > anything these Irish had learned to play the game of go along to get
> along
> > > and were biding their time when they could extricate themselves from
> > English
> > > controll. This is what in fact may have carried them into out of the
way
> > > settlements in the west brfore the revolution. Something that bears
out
> > this
> > > fact is that a large percentage the names of those fomenting for
> > > Independence seem to be Irish and Scots Irish names. While the Norman
> > > families were pretty much left to posess their lands with a certain
> > immunity
> > > from the Crown in Ireland many of them retained their Catholic roots
as
> a
> > > way of protesting the authority of the Crown. Many were later the
> > financial
> > > and political support behind the Irish attempts at independence
although
> > > most acted covertly to preserve their wealth to the cause. The impetus
> > > behing most Scottish seettlers to the new world was either that tthey
> were
> > > from families who had been resettled in Ireland who had become
> > disillusioned
> > > by having come under the English Penal laws despite their past loyalty
> or
> > > they too stood no chance in posessing land if they were not the first
> born
> > > male, nor having a wife and family (no land, no wife, no life).
> > >
> > > In all my research I have found no incidence of an Irish family coming
> > here
> > > by way of Scotland, but I have found them coming by way of England,
> mostly
> > > liverpool. Wales, France and Germany, sometimes after several
> generations
> > in
> > > the latter two cases. It should be remembered that most of the ones
> whoi
> > > ca\me from france and Germany were mostly Catholic families who sought
> > > refuge from the English and Protestant Irish tyrany toward Catholics
by
> > > fleeing to countries which were still principly Catholic.
> > >
> > >
> > > Steve Patton
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <>
> > > To: <>
> > > Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 2:15 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [McCARTY-L] Silas McCarty
> > >
> > >
> > > > Where did you get the idea that he was Scot-Irish? McCarty is an
> Irish
> > > > surname. Did is ancestors migrate to Scotland, then back to
Ireland?
> > Or
> > > was
> > > > his mother from Scotland?
> > > >
> > > > Paul>
> > > >
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