Archiver > McWILLIAMS > 2008-04 > 1208749847

From: "Robbie Schemenaur" <>
Subject: Re: [MCWILLIAMS] McWilliams spelling variations
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 20:50:47 -0700
References: <006f01c89dbd$ff432770$0200a8c0@T310><>
In-Reply-To: <>

Hello All:
I'm fairly new to the "rootsweb", so please bear with me if I commit a faux
pas. It was related to me that my McWilliams clan's USA origins began in
New England. At some point, however, it would seem there was a move to
Kentucky. You will see that I know very little about the family history of
the McWilliams side of my family tree. They were a fairly closed-mouth
group where that sort of information was concerned. Quite vociferous about
most everything else, though!

My great-grandfather, Velpoe Petty McWilliams (b. 05/31/1888/d.08/25/1973)
came from Wilmore, Kentucky, and married (date unknown) Lela Eugene Corman
(b. 06/26/1880) also from Wilmore, Kentucky. There were two or three
children from this union. I am unsure of the number because I've only known
of my grandfather, Audrey Oliver McWilliams (b. 07/07/1907 / d.08/25/1972)
born in Wilmington, Washington, and his sister, Marjorie (McWilliams) Tinder
(b. unknown). Within the last few years, though, there was mention of
another brother.

I can take the Corman's back to William E., married to Mattie, but I have no
dates or further information.

The Martin's: Helen Irene Martin was the daughter of William Green Martin
born in I believe) Senotobia, Mississippi, and Maud Ruth Thomson born in
Spring Creek, Arkansas.

That's it. End of data.

On one of my 5-generation charts, I've made a notation that the father of
Velpoe Petty (VP) may have come from Ohio or Indiana. I cannot now recall
why I noted that, but I must have felt it was a good lead at the time.

As long as you've got this much information, I might as well add that my
grandfather, Audrey Oliver, married Helen Irene Martin (b.08/11/1910
Conway,Faulkner,Arkansas)(date unknown) and they produced one child: James
Robert McWilliams (b. 01/28/1928 / d.07/29/1981). James R. was born in
Shawnee, Oklahoma. I know this is current history, and not really germane
to research, but we may be able to make some sort of connection through more
current history.

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:] On Behalf Of William McWilliams
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [MCWILLIAMS] McWilliams spelling variations

It could very well be that there is a connection. The MacWilliams
(McWilliams) and Scotts were close, moving together from Elisabethtown, KY
to Knox County Missouri and then on to Northern Colorado over a couple
generations I believe. If you happen to have connections to Capt. Felix
Grundy Scott (b17 Mar 1829 Hardin Co. KY) or James MacWilliams (b17 Jun
1791) then we have a tie. If so, it would be interesting to hear more of
the South Africa/Australia line.

I did look thru my lists and didn't find a James, or Media that fit, but I
don't have complete lists for all the cousins in that generation.

Lynette Troughton <> wrote:
I find your e-mail intriguing. I am the granddaughter of James Mc Williams

(1870) County Tyrone and the great granddaughter of James Mc Williams who
had a farm in the Tullybleety area.
The intriguing bit is that always, maybe until the time I got married and
then took on another surname, I always put a - under the small letter 'c'.
I had forgotten about this until I read your e-mail this morning.
My grandfather, James Mc WILLIAMS, was the first son of James Mc WILLIAMS
and Media (Margery) SCOTT. There was a sister, Rachel (1873) and a brother
Robert (I think).
James McWILLIAMS went to South Africa and married Frances FELDHAUSEN in Port

Elizabeth, South Africa 25/12/1908. They had seven children, the eldest
bearing the name James.
It is said that some of the family went to the USA.
Living in Australia, now, it is very difficult to get hold of Irish records
so will have to wait until I get there one day.
James, my great grandfather was killed during an Orange Day march, what year

I do not know but I presume about 1917 as he wanted his son and family to
return to Ireland and my Dad was born in 1914, his elder brother about 1910
and the third son about 1916.
Maybe somewhere these names appear in your family history.
Thanks for the memory of how I used to write my surname, a name of which I
am very proud.
Lynette from OZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "William McWilliams"
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: [MCWILLIAMS] McWilliams spelling variations

> My own experience with the surname is interesting. A great aunt that
> compiled many genealogical family history letters sent to different
> branches of the family in the 50's stated that we should be all using the
> Mac as her branch did. She stated her grandfather, James MacWilliams
> (Kentucky & Missouri), had a scottish broage and was the grandson of a
> Scot. From her letters it appeared that only my branch, Paul McWilliams
> (Kentucky, Missouri and Colorado) had truncated to Mc (we had replaced the

> a with a line below the c).
> After searching without success for James's father, another James, that
> spelled his name with Mac I came in contact with relatives that had
> connected the James's with ancestors Hugo & his father John, a Scot from
> Ulster, all spelling it Mc, including on the Senior James's military
> pension documents for his service in the revolutionary war. As some of my
> branches still continue the revision to Mac, I wonder often how much can
> be counted on current spellings in the Scottish vs Ulster rule of thumb.
> Bill McWilliams
> wrote:
> Regarding spelling variations, here is an excerpt for the general review
> of
> naming patterns, then the information from Paul's book.
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> British Surnames: First-names, Localities, Occupations, Nicknames
> by John Kennedy
> British surnames became fixed in the period between 1250 and 1450. The
> broad
> range of ethnic and linguistic roots for British surnames reflects the
> history of Britain as an oft-invaded land. These roots include, but are
> not
> limited to, Old English, Middle English, Old French, Old Norse, Irish,
> Gaelic,
> Celtic, Pictish, Welsh, Gaulish, Germanic, Latin, Greek and Hebrew.
> Please note that by "British" we mean only 'inhabitant of the British
> Isles,' not citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern
> Ireland. We
> have grouped English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish surnames together mainly
> because they overlap so often.
> Throughout the British Isles, there are only four types of native
> surnames:
> i) Those taking -- or based on -- the first name of the ancestor's father
> (patronymic). [More, next paragraph]
> ii) Those recording localities or places where ancestors originated.
> iii) Names reflecting the occupation or status of the ancestor.
> iv) Surnames that are nicknames describing the ancestor's face, figure,
> temper, morals, or habits.
> Surnames based on the Christian name of the father are very common in
> English-speaking countries. Either the name is obvious (John William) or
> an "s"
> might be added, giving names like Williams. In some cases, the ending
> "son" is
> added so you get Davidson, Richardson, or Anderson (son of Andrew).
> Tennyson
> was the son of Dennis. In Scotland and Ireland "Mac" or "Mc" means "son
> of"
> and families which had settled in Ireland soon after the Norman Conquest
> have a
> surname beginning with "Fitz" (from the French "fils", for "son"). "Fitz",
> as used in England often indicates illegitimacy -- so the surname Fitzroy
> means the illegitimate son of the King (from the French, Fils de Roi). The

> Irish
> "O", as in O'Brien, means the grandson of Brien.
> ============ McWilliam of NE Scotland =================
> Paul F. McWilliams included the following in his book regarding the early
> origins of the name, devoting only a few paragraphs of his 563 page book
> to the
> subject:
> The name "McWilliam" means "son of William", and so it would seem we are
> all
> descended from a man named William. That we are all descended from the
> same
> William is doubtful. But those of us who had ancestors who lived in the
> Northeast of Scotland may well be descended from one of a few Williams, if

> not the
> same William. The name is rarely spelled with the terminal 's' in Scottish
> records but is frequently spelled with the terminal 's' elsewhere.
> George F. Black in his Surnames of Scotland: Their Origin, Meaning and
> History states: "Duncan Ban MacWilliam and William the Lion were both
> great
> grandsons of Malcolm III. Duncan was slain in the battle of Mam Garvia in
> Moray
> in 1187; his son Donald was slain in Moray in 1215, and his son Guthred
> was
> beheaded at Kincardine in 1211." And so it is implied that that line was
> thus
> terminated, and it is unlikely that we are descended from them.
> Just when and where the McWilliam surname began to be used by the
> ancestors
> of the persons in the northeast of Scotland has not been discovered.
> Surnames
> were not in common use by the common people of the Northeast of Scotland
> before the sixteenth or seventeenth century, and it appears that the great
> majority of McWilliams in this area in the seventeenth century and
> afterwards were
> not descendants of landed gentry. There was no Highland clan McWilliam,
> but
> it is said that a McWilliam sept belonged to the Gunn Clan who dwelt in
> Caithness and Sutherland to the north and west of the area of concern of
> this
> book, namely Aberdeenshire, Banffshire and Morayshire. No evidence has
> been found
> that the Northeast McWilliams ever belonged to this sept.
> Black further states: "A family of this name are said to have been
> established in the parish of Mortlach in 1550, and many of the name have
> now changed
> their name to Williamson. Many MacWilliams or MacWillies existed in
> Glenlivet
> and the name is found there in old records as McKullie (1637), McCullie
> (1645), McVillie (1693), M'Quhilzeame (1616, etc. Macquilliam, Mackilliam
> and
> MacWilliams are also current forms."
> No other evidence has been found that the McWilliam families of the
> Northeast of Scotland originated in Mortlach Parish in 1550. The compiler
> obtained
> most of the early information about McWilliam families from the Old Parish
> Registers (OPRs) and the Mortlach OPR did indeed contain early McWilliam
> baptisms
> and marriages. But this register did not begin until 1741, nearly two
> hundred years later. The first McWilliam entry in this register occurred
> in 1743,
> followed by numerous entries until 1854 when the register ended.
> In the neighboring parish of Inveravon the OPR begins in 1630 and there
> were
> numerous McWilliam entries in that register in the 1630's and 1640's. In
> the
> Parish of Botriphnie the OPR began in 1683 and there were McWilliam and
> McWillie entries there from its inception. Other parishes in the area had
> early
> McWilliam entries in their OPRs.
> =====================================
> My own experience shows that a particular spelling is fairly consistent in
> research documents after the mid 1800s with much more variation noted
> prior to
> that period, McWilliams is seems to have fewer variations in records than
> many other names. In general the Mac denotes Scottish origins, Mc likely
> the
> Ulster Scots origin. Can send more on the subject privately to any who
> desire.
> Jerry McWilliams
> (mailto:)
> **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money &
> Finance. (
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