Melungeon-L ArchivesArchiver > Melungeon > 2002-06 > 1024675839
From: "Jim Bowery" <>
Subject: [Melungeon] No DNA Data -- No Credibility
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:10:44 -0700
So it would appear from the news reports that the bottom line is that Dr.
Jones is not going to release his data:
1) Not ANY of his Y chromosome data
2) Only enough of his mtDNA data for us to conclude that the sample of
Melungeon women chosen has no more Native American and African heritage than
the average "white".
Y chromosomes are the most ethnically distinguishing of the DNA sequences
and he refused SPECIFICALLY to release ANY data on THOSE.
Why not release the frequency of various haplogroups of the male Y
This confirms the suspicions of those who think that Bret Kennedy's vested
position with respect to Jones has contributed to bad science.
Of course, Jones can choose to release his data at any time, but until he
does so via a reasonable venue we can act alone without the authorities
deciding what we are and are not to see in the way of hard data. Just
individually purchase DNA tests for a couple hundred dollars and publish the
results in here and on your websites along with genealogical info.
Here's how easy it is:
I am the purported blood descendant of Francis Bowry. See
My father had black hair and my paternal grandfather was a farmer who I
remember being "tanned".
My Y chromosome data from Oxford Ancestors is:
19 388 390 391 392 393 389i 389ii-i 425 426
14 14 22 10 11 13 09 16 12 11
For example, site "19" on my Y chromosome has the marker "14", site "389i"
has the marker "09" and so forth.
The third row is the slight adjustment to 389i and 389i-ii required for
input to the geographic database of Y chromosomes at
http://ystr.charite.de/index_gr.html To access that search form click on "Y
Start Search" at that site. You'll get a form looking like the following
(I've put my numbers in):
DYS19 DYS389I* DYS389II* DYS390 DYS391
14 12 28 22 10
DYS392 DYS393 DYS385 YCAII*
11 13 * *
The way you do the adjustment to your Oxford Ancestors, Inc. Y-Line
signature is add 3 to the value at site "389i" (which gives 12 in my case),
and then take that and add it to the value at site "389ii-i" (which in my
case gives 28) for what you use at "389ii". If you don't have data for
input to the form, leave it as just *. Oxford Ancestors doesn't provide 385
or YCAII so I left those as *'s. Then click on "Search".
On the page that comes back, look for "Population query summary". It is a
table with 2 columns: "Population" and "Count". "Population" is the column
with the names of the geographic areas. "Count" is the column with the
actual percentage of people in that geographic area that matched your Y
chromosome. The percentage is given as "X of Y", so you just divide X by Y
and multiply by 100 to get the percentages.
Then sort by percentage.
Mine top percentage matches were:
Norway North 6.7%
Norway East 4.7%
Looking at the map, it is clear my ancestry is centered on northern
Netherlands and probably involved north sea traders.
Unfortunately, the http://ystr.charite.de/index_gr.html database doesn't
include Scottish or Northern Ireland areas.
However, they do have an Asian database! It's at http://ystr.org/asia so to
check the theory that you match an Asian population go there and enter your
data. For me the results were that I had no matches in Asia.
Unfortunately I don't know of a similar geographic database of matrilineal
DNA (mitochondrial DNA or mtDNA).
Fortunately, however, mtDNA is not very informative as to ethnic origins
anyway due probably to the fact that females were largely traded around
between tribes as a means of establishing alliances and/or via abductions
etc. My mtDNA, for the record, as reported by Oxford Ancestors was:
ATTCTAATTT AAACTATTCT CTGTTCTTTC ATGGGGAAGC AGATTTGGGT ACCACCCAAG TATTGACTCA
CCCATCAACA ACCGCTATGT ATTTCGTACA
TTACTGCCAG CCACCATGAA TATTGTACGG TACCATAAAT ACTTGACCAC CTGTAGTACA TAAAAACCCA
ATCCACATCA AAACCCCCTC CCCATGCTTA
CAAGCAAGTA CAGCAATCAA CCCTCAACTA TCACACATCA ACTGCAACTC CAAAGCCACC CCTCACCCAC
TAGGATACCA ACAAACCTAC CCACCCTTAA
CAGTACATAG TACATAAAGC CATTTACCGT ACATAGCACA TTACAGTCAA ATCCCTTCTC GTCCCCATGG
ATGACCCCCC TCAGATAGGG GTCCCTTGAC
This is identical to what Brian Sykes calls the "Helena" matriline.
Although most associate Helena with Europe, mtDNA is more evenly
spread over a much larger region than is typically the case with the
Y chromosome. Even so, while it is true that my matriline could conceivably
come from northern India, its stretching to the point of being dishonest to
say that northern India is a likely origin of my early American matriline.
Oxford Ancestors' Y-Line service is at
http://www.oxfordancestors.com/yline.html and it worked.
information on other testing services that offer more DNA information at