Melungeon-L Archives
Archiver > Melungeon > 2004-12 > 1102562749
From: galgumshoe <>
Subject: Re: [Melungeon] Re: Janet and Side-Stepping
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 19:25:49 -0800
References: <000f01c4dc0e$4a899540$9e218440@charlie1> <d8aef0d004120619476ff2836f@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c4dc6a$4dd64a70$9e218440@charlie1> <d8aef0d004120818206af0be34@mail.gmail.com> <00b501c4dd99$0e57daf0$a4218440@charlie1> <d8aef0d00412081919233f36a5@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <d8aef0d00412081919233f36a5@mail.gmail.com>
I'm STILL waiting for your prominent researcher's profile. I don't
discount her, but rather like her. Still, I KNOW you wouldn't come on
this forum and purport someone to be a PROMINENT researcher if you
didn't know her background.
Please, please, don't stall any longer. Share it with us. For
goodness sake, you've been side-stepping this for three days!!!!
Donalyn
On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 19:19:59 -0800, galgumshoe <> wrote:
> Thanks for bringing that up. Why did Jack leave? I've been gone some
> time, but believe any PROMINENT researcher's work, especially when
> they've published a book, is open to discussion. Let's go for it <G>.
> And that is NOT true. You definitely talked about Brent Kennedy.
> So, what is the GOINS Y-DNA?
>
> Happy Hanakkah,
>
>
> Donalyn
>
> On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 20:44:43 -0600, ljcrain <> wrote:
> > Jack Goins is no longer on this list. And I don't make it a habit to discuss
> > persons not on the list. As they may never see the post and even if they did
> > they have no way to respond to whatever is being posted.
> >
> > However; in this case I will break a long time rule and say that I respect
> > Jack Goins and feel his book is very worthwhile. And I understand there will
> > be an update out soon and I look forward to it.
> >
> > Janet Crain
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "galgumshoe" <>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 8:20 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Melungeon] Re: [DNA] DNA Clears the Fog Over Latino Links to
> > Judaism in New Mexico.
> >
> > > That is so funny, Janet. I am rolling on the floor laughing. Wow. I
> > > suspect some proven Melungeon males begin by showing their YDNA and
> > > Portuguese ancestry. Certainly Jack Goins has posted and written
> > > articles that some folks are sinners for their own surmisals, but Jack
> > > can put out all over the internet that his folks were Portuguese
> > > without proof. I say, if people aren't willing to put their DNA
> > > forth, forget them. There are Collins now who also aren't sharing the
> > > full families' DNA and have been tested. Hello. There are plenty of
> > > families on the Clinch and I'll tell you about them, as knowledge and
> > > time permits, including other mixed-blood Gibsons and Mullins :)
> > >
> > > Donalyn
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:37:31 -0600, ljcrain <>
> > wrote:
> > > > "Can the YDNA of Melungeon males show matches with Portuguese or
> > > > Spanish families? If not, why not?"
> > > >
> > > > Donalyn; The Y Chromosome DNA of Melungeon males can't show me anything
> > > > because I have yet to be privy to the Y Chromosome DNA results of any
> > proven
> > > > Melungeon descendants. Without the results, how can I compare? And if
> > you
> > > > are referring to 12 markers, forget it. Many Northern European men match
> > > > Spanish and Portuguese at 12 markers, simply because they all had common
> > > > ancestors way back. Many tribes of the the Celtics are reputed to have
> > > > migrated from Iberia.
> > > >
> > > > I am afraid you and I and a whole bunch of other people were over
> > promised
> > > > concerning the potentiality of DNA testing. I am not blaming anyone. The
> > > > apparent ability of 37 markers to hold true for an amazing 600 years has
> > > > just come to light. So if you were comparing two males, how would you
> > know
> > > > if they really have a recent common ancestor or if one or both have
> > simply
> > > > back mutated to the reach the accidental point that they are presently
> > at.
> > > > Forgive the ending preposition.
> > > >
> > > > DNA testing for genealogical purposes is very good at family
> > reconstruction.
> > > > Simply because the sheer weight of numbers of participants eventually
> > rule
> > > > out these anomalies. But for showing the geographical region a person
> > comes
> > > > from, they are practically useless, except for the major continents. And
> > of
> > > > course that is misleading also, due to migrations, both ancient and
> > recent.
> > > > And the fact that the Y only gives information about the paternal line
> > from
> > > > way back. Compare it to a tag on a garment that the sales person scans
> > for
> > > > inventory number and price and then discards. Once you own the garment,
> > you
> > > > will learn a lot more about it. Because there are many factors not
> > > > discernable from that little tag. Humans are infinitely more
> > complicated.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Janet Crain
> > > > http://www.genpage.com/genealogyDNA.html
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "galgumshoe" <>
> > > > To: "ljcrain" <>
> > > > Cc: <>
> > > > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 9:47 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Melungeon] Re: [DNA] DNA Clears the Fog Over Latino Links
> > to
> > > > Judaism in New Mexico.
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Janet :),
> > > > >
> > > > > If there are misunderstandings, let's just clarify the questions:
> > > > >
> > > > > Can the YDNA of Melungeon males show matches with Portuguese or
> > > > > Spanish families? If not, why not?
> > > > >
> > > > > Can the mtDNA of Melungeon males show matches with Portuguese or
> > > > > Spanish families? If not, why not?
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as the rest, I CAN go back through archives and, well, you know
> > > > > we all very busy with Thanksgiving, so let's revisit it"
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Why wouldn't people from Portugal change their names to English
> > versions?
> > > > > The Welsh, French, Germans, Asians, Africans, Jewish (many of whom
> > also
> > > > did
> > > > > not have surnames), and many others did. We hardly ever encounter
> > anyone
> > > > > called Madog any more. Or Nest as a lady's name. Owaine became Owen.
> > But
> > > > > most simply did not survive. BTW, I never said Madoc came here early
> > on.
> > > > > Although the DAR erected a statue to him for doing so. LOL
> > > > >
> > > > > You have your theory and you are determined to cling to it in the face
> > of
> > > > > any oposing evidence that it may not be true. Fine, let us have the
> > same
> > > > > privilege we are extending to you. I am, personally, not going to
> > worry
> > > > > about an unprovable ancestor who was one of over 4,000 in the 1600's."
> > > > >
> > > > > Let's revisit that "opposing evidence."
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm waiting, Janet....
> > > > >
> > > > > Donalyn
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 21:38:58 -0600, ljcrain <>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Donalyn's comments are in quotation marks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Also, you mentioned that you couldn't tell where the Crains came
> > from
> > > > > > in order to justify lore as possible fact for possible females
> > adding
> > > > > > to the Melungeon mix as Portuguese."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No, Donalyn, I said that because you brought up Y chromosomes and
> > > > "Portuguese" DNA. And I am telling you, there ain't no such animal. Why
> > > > would NONE of the experts on the DNA list be knowledgeable about such an
> > > > important advance?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Are you saying that this article is completely depending on the J1.
> > > > > > For others, here's an interesting article @
> > > > > > http://www.ftdna.com/pdf/HaploJ.pdf";
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not saying anything. Ellen Levy wrote the post.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 'I simply don't understand why some lore is discounted and other is
> > > > > > purported to be fact. Upon what do you your chosen Melungeon
> > > > > > families' lore as possible fact?"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have never claimed to have any Melungeon ancestors. And if I did,
> > I
> > > > would base it on something more substancial than mtDNA. Which only
> > reflects
> > > > very deep ancestry.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Janet Crain
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ==== Melungeon Mailing List ====
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from the Melungeon email list in mail mode, send a
> > > > message to:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The message: unsubscribe
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from the Melungeon email list in digest mode, send a
> > > > message to:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The message: unsubscribe
> > > > > > To subscribe to either mode, replace unsubscribe with subscribe
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ==== Melungeon Mailing List ====
> > > To unsubscribe from the Melungeon email list in mail mode, send a message
> > to:
> > >
> > > The message: unsubscribe
> > > To unsubscribe from the Melungeon email list in digest mode, send a
> > message to:
> > >
> > > The message: unsubscribe
> > > To subscribe to either mode, replace unsubscribe with subscribe
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ==== Melungeon Mailing List ====
> > To unsubscribe from the Melungeon email list in mail mode, send a message to:
> >
> > The message: unsubscribe
> > To unsubscribe from the Melungeon email list in digest mode, send a message to:
> >
> > The message: unsubscribe
> > To subscribe to either mode, replace unsubscribe with subscribe
> >
> >
>
This thread: