Melungeon-L Archives

Archiver > Melungeon > 2004-12 > 1102731322


From: galgumshoe <>
Subject: Re: [Melungeon] Re: [DNA] DNA Clears the Fog Over Latino Links to Judaism in New Mexico.
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 18:15:27 -0800
References: <410-220041249103158546@earthlink.net>
In-Reply-To: <410-220041249103158546@earthlink.net>


Ernie,

My own personal belief is that we have to start somewhere, first and
foremost. I'm not sure sure if it would solve an African issue IF
that came into play. I've really tried to be open about all of this,
even if folks wish to accuse me. And I'm not sure if my mother's
Southern ancestors had the same Spanish/Portuguese ancestry as my
Northern fathers. To find those two records in Puritan New England
regarding my believed Jewish ancestry was amazing.

Curtis does have a point that such recent ancestry for Melungeon
ancestry as Portuguese should probably show family names, at least in
oral history. It *may* mean that the ancestry was that distant.
There are *so many* groups that purported the same thing in the SE US.
And none of them have those family names to back anything up. One
has to look at the possibilities that this was a *very typical*
response in a color-guarded society.

I am, however, not certain where and how the admixtures occurred.
From a logical standpoint, these probably did not come from a ship
from anywhere, except a select few. It is my belief that the myth
built from there. On the other hand, I've proven my Snelling heritage
now and everything said to date correct, except the Jewish part. Our
oral history definitely relates that some of our cousins came here
through St. Augustine.

Donalyn


On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 05:31:58 -0500, ernest hurst <> wrote:
> I do agree with you about Melungeon descendants who won't post anything
> about Y DNA results, from tests that they have done. If some Goins,
> Gibsons, collins, etc, would do that, it would definitely solve, one way or
> the other, the African question. However, I don't believe it would do
> anything to provide concrete proof of Portuguese ancestry. I'm sure there
> are people in Portugal today, as well as several hundred, or several
> thousand, years ago, with any number of Y haplogroups. Which haplogroup do
> you think would indicate Portuguese origins?
>
> Ernie
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: galgumshoe <>
> > To: <>
> > Date: 12/8/2004 9:20:40 PM
>
>
> > Subject: Re: [Melungeon] Re: [DNA] DNA Clears the Fog Over Latino Links
> to Judaism in New Mexico.
> >
> > That is so funny, Janet. I am rolling on the floor laughing. Wow. I
> > suspect some proven Melungeon males begin by showing their YDNA and
> > Portuguese ancestry. Certainly Jack Goins has posted and written
> > articles that some folks are sinners for their own surmisals, but Jack
> > can put out all over the internet that his folks were Portuguese
> > without proof. I say, if people aren't willing to put their DNA
> > forth, forget them. There are Collins now who also aren't sharing the
> > full families' DNA and have been tested. Hello. There are plenty of
> > families on the Clinch and I'll tell you about them, as knowledge and
> > time permits, including other mixed-blood Gibsons and Mullins :)
> >
> > Donalyn
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:37:31 -0600, ljcrain <>
>
>
> wrote:
> > > "Can the YDNA of Melungeon males show matches with Portuguese or
> > > Spanish families? If not, why not?"
> > >
> > > Donalyn; The Y Chromosome DNA of Melungeon males can't show me anything
> > > because I have yet to be privy to the Y Chromosome DNA results of any
> proven
> > > Melungeon descendants. Without the results, how can I compare? And if
> you
> > > are referring to 12 markers, forget it. Many Northern European men match
> > > Spanish and Portuguese at 12 markers, simply because they all had common
> > > ancestors way back. Many tribes of the the Celtics are reputed to have
> > > migrated from Iberia.
> > >
> > > I am afraid you and I and a whole bunch of other people were over
> promised
> > > concerning the potentiality of DNA testing. I am not blaming anyone. The
> > > apparent ability of 37 markers to hold true for an amazing 600 years has
> > > just come to light. So if you were comparing two males, how would you
> know
> > > if they really have a recent common ancestor or if one or both have
> simply
> > > back mutated to the reach the accidental point that they are presently
> at.
> > > Forgive the ending preposition.
> > >
> > > DNA testing for genealogical purposes is very good at family
> reconstruction.
> > > Simply because the sheer weight of numbers of participants eventually
> rule
> > > out these anomalies. But for showing the geographical region a person
> comes
> > > from, they are practically useless, except for the major continents.
> And of
> > > course that is misleading also, due to migrations, both ancient and
> recent.
> > > And the fact that the Y only gives information about the paternal line
> from
> > > way back. Compare it to a tag on a garment that the sales person scans
> for
> > > inventory number and price and then discards. Once you own the garment,
> you
> > > will learn a lot more about it. Because there are many factors not
> > > discernable from that little tag. Humans are infinitely more
> complicated.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Janet Crain
> > > http://www.genpage.com/genealogyDNA.html
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "galgumshoe" <>
> > > To: "ljcrain" <>
> > > Cc: <>
> > > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 9:47 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Melungeon] Re: [DNA] DNA Clears the Fog Over Latino Links
> to
> > > Judaism in New Mexico.
> > >
> > > > Hi Janet :),
> > > >
> > > > If there are misunderstandings, let's just clarify the questions:
> > > >
> > > > Can the YDNA of Melungeon males show matches with Portuguese or
> > > > Spanish families? If not, why not?
> > > >
> > > > Can the mtDNA of Melungeon males show matches with Portuguese or
> > > > Spanish families? If not, why not?
> > > >
> > > > As far as the rest, I CAN go back through archives and, well, you know
> > > > we all very busy with Thanksgiving, so let's revisit it"
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Why wouldn't people from Portugal change their names to English
> versions?
> > > > The Welsh, French, Germans, Asians, Africans, Jewish (many of whom
> also
> > > did
> > > > not have surnames), and many others did. We hardly ever encounter
> anyone
> > > > called Madog any more. Or Nest as a lady's name. Owaine became Owen.
> But
> > > > most simply did not survive. BTW, I never said Madoc came here early
> on.
> > > > Although the DAR erected a statue to him for doing so. LOL
> > > >
> > > > You have your theory and you are determined to cling to it in the
> face of
> > > > any oposing evidence that it may not be true. Fine, let us have the
> same
> > > > privilege we are extending to you. I am, personally, not going to
> worry
> > > > about an unprovable ancestor who was one of over 4,000 in the 1600's."
> > > >
> > > > Let's revisit that "opposing evidence."
> > > >
> > > > I'm waiting, Janet....
> > > >
> > > > Donalyn
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 21:38:58 -0600, ljcrain <>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > Donalyn's comments are in quotation marks.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Also, you mentioned that you couldn't tell where the Crains came
> from
> > > > > in order to justify lore as possible fact for possible females
> adding
> > > > > to the Melungeon mix as Portuguese."
> > > > >
> > > > > No, Donalyn, I said that because you brought up Y chromosomes and
> > > "Portuguese" DNA. And I am telling you, there ain't no such animal. Why
> > > would NONE of the experts on the DNA list be knowledgeable about such an
> > > important advance?
> > > > >
> > > > > "Are you saying that this article is completely depending on the J1.
> > > > > For others, here's an interesting article @
> > > > > http://www.ftdna.com/pdf/HaploJ.pdf";
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not saying anything. Ellen Levy wrote the post.
> > > > >
> > > > > 'I simply don't understand why some lore is discounted and other is
> > > > > purported to be fact. Upon what do you your chosen Melungeon
> > > > > families' lore as possible fact?"
> > > > >
> > > > > I have never claimed to have any Melungeon ancestors. And if I did,
> I
> > > would base it on something more substancial than mtDNA. Which only
> reflects
> > > very deep ancestry.
> > > > >
> > > > > Janet Crain
> > > > >
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> >
> >
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