Melungeon-L Archives

Archiver > Melungeon > 2004-12 > 1102732937


From: galgumshoe <>
Subject: Re: [Melungeon] Re: [DNA] DNA Clears the Fog Over Latino Links to Judaism in New Mexico.
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 18:42:22 -0800
References: <410-22004124995331953@earthlink.net> <d8aef0d0041210173444167661@mail.gmail.com> <d8aef0d00412101751165f9496@mail.gmail.com> <000f01c4df28$36b16da0$6b218440@charlie1>
In-Reply-To: <000f01c4df28$36b16da0$6b218440@charlie1>


I *DO* look foreward to continued debate of these issues, including
DNA, etc. If you no longer want to participate, Janet, I will no
longer question your *expertise* nor your sources.

Donalyn


On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 20:22:05 -0600, ljcrain <> wrote:
> Donalyn wrote:
>
> >She has still not answered my questions.
>
> Donalyn; I have answered all of your questions I intend to. You interpret
> everything I say to mean something different, you put words in my mouth,
> you accuse me of saying things about people when I have not. You said I must
> be delusional. You said I was a condescending and inaccurate voice for
> those seeking their ancestry and you do not understand why I'm here.
>
> Well, it's a good thing you "like and respect me" or what would you say to
> me?
>
> And I must ask you not to continue copying me on messages. Since your
> software does not allow this, it shouldn't be a problem. I am on individual
> messages and I see them as soon as they hit the list.
>
> Donalyn wrote:
>
> >Unless, that is, people just love arguing...
>
> I leave that to the list members to decide.
>
>
>
>
> Janet Crain
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "galgumshoe" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 7:51 PM
> Subject: Fwd: [Melungeon] Re: [DNA] DNA Clears the Fog Over Latino Links to
> Judaism in New Mexico.
>
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: galgumshoe <>
> > Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:34:24 -0800
> > Subject: Re: [Melungeon] Re: [DNA] DNA Clears the Fog Over Latino
> > Links to Judaism in New Mexico.
> > To:
> >
> >
> > I think Janet is great, but it's tough to get answers from her. She
> > should afford the same respect for the New Mexicans as she gives those
> > Newman's Ridge descendants. And yes, that should be a staple on this
> > forum.
> >
> > She has still not answered my questions. I think that it isn't fair
> > to give some folks the benefit of the doubt and not others, even with
> > DNA proof. Those folks are lucky to have that and I'm happy for them.
> > Think for a moment if the tables were turned. Dennis mentioned that
> > he didn't believe that DNA testing would solve issues. It wasn't long
> > ago he was advocating the results of the Melungeon population DNA
> > project.
> >
> > This is not true that people won't get results. He's assuming or
> > knowing things in private. A Newman's Ridge Gibson with haplogroup
> > RIb would be very meaningful, if not conclusive about admixtures.
> > Also, again, family dna projects do go a long way in sorting out
> > families. The Green project shows a myriad of DNA and others show
> > families of diverse surnames to be related. You don't start out a DNA
> > project assuming the worst. You simply do it and find out where it
> > leads.
> >
> > Unless, that is, people just love arguing...
> >
> > Donalyn
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 04:53:31 -0500, ernest hurst <>
> wrote:
> > > You said it once, several postings ago, & we are all aware of your
> opinion.
> > > Why don't you just quit repeating yourself, trying to pick a fight with
> > > Janet.
> > >
> > > Ernie
> > >
> > > > [Original Message]
> > > > From: galgumshoe <>
> > > > To: <>
> > > > Date: 12/8/2004 8:56:02 PM
> > >
> > >
> > > > Subject: Re: [Melungeon] Re: [DNA] DNA Clears the Fog Over Latino
> Links
> > > to Judaism in New Mexico.
> > > >
> > > > This has nothing to do with your saying a PROMINENT researcher cast
> > > > doubts on the article about Father Sanchez and others tested with the
> > > > Cohin gene. You also haven't addressed her credentials as being
> > > > labeled PROMINENT. I don't doubt them. She WASN'T discounting the
> > > > results. But, what I want to know from you, is how you label someone
> > > > prominent? It seems to have a lot to do with if they agreed with you.
> > > > They didn't. You were WRONG.
> > > >
> > > > Donalyn
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:45:38 -0600, ljcrain <>
> > >
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > > Donalyn; I have a lot of respect for Ms. Coffman. If you don't, then
> > > fine.
> > > > >
> > > > > I did not say she rejected the report. I said she had reservations
> and
> > > she
> > > > > does:
> > > > >
> > > > > Ms. Coffman said:
> > > > >
> > > > > "However, what I'd really like to see in the near
> > > > > future is a sub-clade test that clarifies for test
> > > > > participants whether they are truly J2 or J1."
> > > > >
> > > > > That is because if they are J2, it is meaningless.
> > > > >
> > > > > I did not quote her in the post because we are not supposed to quote
> > > other's
> > > > > Rootsweb posts in full or lengthy parts. Just give the link to the
> post
> > > in
> > > > > the archives, which I did.
> > > > >
> > > > > Janet Crain
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "galgumshoe" <>
> > > > > To: "ljcrain" <>
> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 9:57 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Melungeon] Re: [DNA] DNA Clears the Fog Over Latino
> Links
> > > to
> > > > > Judaism in New Mexico.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Janet wrote that Donalyn wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Are you saying that this article is completely depending on the
> J1.
> > > > > > For others, here's an interesting article @
> > > > > > http://www.ftdna.com/pdf/HaploJ.pdf";
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not saying anything. Ellen Levy wrote the post.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Really? So, whom is the "prominent" Jewish DNA researcher and
> what
> > > > > > are those qualifications? You did say it was written by a
> PROMINENT
> > > > > > researcher. So, an unknown ellen Levy wrote it and signed it
> Ellen
> > > > > > Coffman. Do you even know who wrote it? Did you even do more
> than
> > > > > > scan it? If you had, you wouldn't have posted the questioning of
> > > > > > these particular results as you did.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Donalyn
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "From: ellen Levy <>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [DNA] DNA Clears the Fog Over Latino Links to Judaism
> in
> > >
> > >
> > > > > > New Mexico.
> > > > > > Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 17:01:54 -0800 (PST)
> > > > > > In-Reply-To: <>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm glad someone posted about this. There has been a
> > > > > > number of DNA Projects, including the Mexican DNA
> > > > > > Project, which has been able to trace DNA back to
> > > > > > possible Sephardic roots.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For those on the List who would like to point to these
> > > > > > kinds instances of possible Sephardic ancestry as
> > > > > > indicators that they too have Jewish DNA, you need to
> > > > > > realize that only haplogroup J1 (also known as
> > > > > > J-M267*) is considered truly Semitic and is extremely
> > > > > > rare in non-Jewish Europeans. Only in certain Greek &
> > > > > > Italian populations does J1 rise to about 2% of the
> > > > > > results.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thus, researchers in this case were able to identify
> > > > > > it as Sephardic. Note that J1 could also indicate
> > > > > > Moorish DNA, particularly in someone with Spanish
> > > > > > ancestry. However, in a case like this one, the
> > > > > > rarity of the Semitic haplogroup, coupled with both
> > > > > > the individual's unusual family history and the known
> > > > > > suppression and forced conversion of Sephardic Jews in
> > > > > > 14-15th century Spain, makes Mr. Sanchez's J1 results
> > > > > > reflective of a Sephardic past.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However, what I'd really like to see in the near
> > > > > > future is a sub-clade test that clarifies for test
> > > > > > participants whether they are truly J2 or J1.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ellen Coffman"
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 21:38:58 -0600, ljcrain
> <>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Donalyn's comments are in quotation marks.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Also, you mentioned that you couldn't tell where the Crains
> came
> > > from
> > > > > > > in order to justify lore as possible fact for possible females
> > > adding
> > > > > > > to the Melungeon mix as Portuguese."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> >
> >
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