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Archiver > Melungeon > 2010-03 > 1268277089


From: K T JAMES <>
Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] DNA
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:11:29 -0800 (PST)
References: <24C94008A1DF4A8AA7E29A3917532FB7@Jack><878926.19868.qm@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <878926.19868.qm@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com>


I have to reread this one a little later this evening but I think to suggest that Shep Gibson was the son of the Peedee Gibsons is stretching it a bit far.   I can tell you for a fact that Shep Gibson is an exact, exact, dna match with Newman Ridge Gibsons and other known Gibsons and I have some pictures and am in contact with descendants of this family.

He is not, not an exact match with the Peedee Gibsons who have a particular mutation. 

We have located another direct descendant of the Peedee Gibsons who will do the dna tests.

There is a relationship to the Peedee Gibsons but not son.  I think we should move on from that idea to something more constructive.



 



________________________________
From: Joanne Pezzullo <>
To:
Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 7:14:29 PM
Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] DNA

JG --Some Melungeons actually told us where they came from. Charles Gibson was probably the oldest Melungeon on Newman Ridge when he filed his pension at Rogersville on 19 Jan.1839. Application # R3995 he gave his age as 92 (b. 1747), He gave his place of birth as Louisa County, Virginia. He enlisted near Salisbury, North Carolina. Benjamin Collins, Jonathan Gibson, and Jordan Gibson swear that Charles Gibson is reputed to be a Revolutionary War soldier in their neighborhood. Charles Gibson and wife Mary were members of Stony Creek Church before moving to Blackwater and Newman Ridge

JP-- Was it common for THREE year olds to be listed as tithes in their fathers household?

"From OLD THOMAS COLLINS OF FLATT RIVER by Jack Goins;
The 1750 tax list of Granville County, NC list the following: Thomas Gibson with tithes Charles and George Gibson."

Obviously there is something wrong here either Charles was not 92 when he applied or the Charles listed in Thomas Gibson's household filed for pension in Wayne Co., NC in 1818.

JG--Now we know from a RW Pension this Gibson family came from the Pamunkey River area. How about the Collins, Bunch and the rest of these ole pioneers who were labeled Melungeons? Who was in this group? According to Will Allen Dromgoole Vardy Collins and Shep Gibson were the head and source of the Newman Ridge Melungeons? ,

JP-- The problem with this is no one knows who Shep Gibson's father was and therefore he could have belonged to the PeeDee Gibson families rather than the Louisa County lines. You can *presume* he came from Louisa County but this can't be documented. It is not factual and to imply Shep Gibson was related to Charles Gibson or came from the Pamunkey River is merely speculation.

JG -- A descendant from a proven son of Shep and Matilda Gibson born 1835, matches Gedion Gibson. This family migrated into Ky and did not know about the Melungeon, or that their father was named as the head Melungeon.

"When Gedion Gibson migrated to South Carolina it caused a disturbance in Craven County. Governor Robert Johnson of South Carolina summoned Gedion Gibson and his family to explain their presence in the area, and after meeting them reported "I have had them before me in council and upon examination find that they are not Negroes nor slaves but free people, that the father of them here is named Gedion Gibson and his father was also free. I have been informed by a person who has lived in Virginia that this Gibson has lived there several years in good repute and by his papers that he has produced before me that his transactions there have been very regular. That he has for several years paid taxes for two tracks of land and has seven Negroes of his own. That he is a carpenter by trade and is come hither for the support of his family. I have in consideration of his wife being a white woman and several white women capable of working and being serviceable in
the country permitted h!
im to settle in this Country".(South Carolina Parish Transcripts, Box 1, folder 4, page 24, by Jordan. Courtesy Paul Heinegg.) {

JP--There is no proof, to my knowledge, that the Gideon Gibson information above is ancestor of the Gideon Gibson [wife Martha] who is father of John Gibson. This John Gibson, son of Gideon, went to the part of Surry County that was later Wilkes County and is in Benjamin Cleveland's District in 1774. [See; http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~valvz/gibson_of_pee_dee.htm ]

There is evidence this Gibson family is the same Gibson family connected to the Goins family who came from Bertie Co., NC and followed the Gibsons to the Peedee-- he is living on Gideon Gibson's land.

24 Apr 1773
"We hereunder subscribed certify inventory of goods and chattels of William Middleton, shown by Martin Middleton, administrator of said deceased's estate, including in list slaves, stock, house, farm items and mentioning notes due to estate of Wm Alston, estate of Gideon Gibson, Sr.; estate of George Gibson; estate of John Berry. Accounts of Jordan Gibson, Sr.; Benj. Blackman, Peter Keighleys, Isaac Nevils, Thos Brewington, Frederick Jones, **Jacob Goins** estate. Signed: William (his mark) Middleton, Jr.; Gid. Gibson, Gid. Gibson, Jr." [Engel, Beth Bland, The Middleton Family, Records From Wales, England, Barbados, The Southern United States, 1972, from The Press of the Jesup Sentinel

JG --Being genetically related such as the Y-test above does not prove Gedion was a Melungeon or vise versa. Finding Goins I match proves that some of my Goins may have been considered Croatan, while others were Melungeon, if anything this proves both were clans, but there is no way to really know if they were croatan/ Lumbee because this Goins family migrated to another state.

JP-- While the Croatan/Lumbee are a recognized tribe in NC -- there is no such name prior to the 1880s -- it was a made up name just as the word Melungeon was. If they are genetically linked then they, both groups,  are the probably Saura/Saponi etc...  Doublehead was a Cherokee - just because the whites tagged him and the Shawnee, etc., as 'Chicamaguas' in the 1770s -- they were still Cherokee.
 
And I will state again you do not know if Shepherd/Buck Gibson, head of the Melungeons, was from Louisa Co., Va., - Orange Co., NC - or the Peedee area. He is found in Wilkes Co., NC - same place we find John Gibson, son of Gideon in 1774 -- for all we know Gideon was the *father* of Shepherd/Buck Gibson. I understand though it is the position of the MHS that just because Gideon Gibson may have been Shepherd's father that does not make him a Melungeon either because he never lived on Newman's Ridge, and for the record I find that ridiculous.

And let me state here again -- there is *nothing* in the records to show WHO the Melungeons were in the Stony Creek Church Records -- if in fact the word is even Melungeon. It could just as easily have been the Bolton, Perkins, Shoemakes, Oxendines and Goins coming from the Peedee River in 1813 on a cattle drive - - because these people are the first people identified as Melungeons in court records.



----- Original Message ----
From: Jack Goins <>
To:
Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 3:42:03 PM
Subject: [MELUNGEON] DNA

    Some Melungeons actually told us where they came from. Charles Gibson was probably the oldest Melungeon on Newman Ridge when he filed his pension at Rogersville on 19 Jan.1839.  Application # R3995 he gave his age as 92 (b. 1747), He gave his place of birth as Louisa County, Virginia. He enlisted near Salisbury, North Carolina. Benjamin Collins, Jonathan Gibson, and Jordan Gibson swear that Charles Gibson is reputed to be a Revolutionary War soldier in their neighborhood.  Charles Gibson and wife Mary were members of Stony Creek Church before moving to Blackwater and Newman Ridge.

    Now we know from a RW Pension this Gibson family came from the Pamunkey River area. How about the Collins, Bunch  and the rest of these ole pioneers who were labeled Melungeons? Who was in this group? According to Will Allen Dromgoole Vardy Collins and Shep Gibson were the head and source of the Newman Ridge Melungeons?  ,



A descendant from a proven son of Shep and Matilda Gibson born 1835, matches Gedion Gibson. This family migrated into Ky and did not know about the Melungeon, or that their father was named as the head Melungeon.



"When Gedion Gibson migrated to South Carolina it caused a disturbance in Craven County. Governor Robert Johnson of South Carolina summoned Gedion Gibson and his family to explain their presence in the area, and after meeting them reported "I have had them before me in council and upon examination find that they are not Negroes nor slaves but free people, that the father of them here is named Gedion Gibson and his father was also free. I have been informed by a person who has lived in Virginia that this Gibson has lived there several years in good repute and by his papers that he has produced before me that his transactions there have been very regular. That he has for several years paid taxes for two tracks of land and has seven Negroes of his own. That he is a carpenter by trade and is come hither for the support of his family. I have in consideration of his wife being a white woman and several white women capable of working and being serviceable in
the country permitted h!
im to settle in this Country".(South Carolina Parish Transcripts, Box 1, folder 4, page 24, by Jordan. Courtesy Paul Heinegg.) 



Being genetically related such as the Y-test above does not prove Gedion was a Melungeon or vise versa. Finding Goins I match proves that some of my Goins may have been considered Croatan, while others were Melungeon, if anything this proves both were clans, but there is no way to really know if they were croatan/ Lumbee because this Goins family migrated to another state.



Jack





 
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ATTENTION:
The above message belongs to the submitter and as such is copyright and may not be published elsewhere in all or in part without the original contributor's express permission. Doing so could lead to permanent expulsion from this list.

MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:

http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon

Lost Colony:

http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com

Melungeon Websites:

http://tinyurl.com/9ev8a

http://www.jgoins.com/

DNA Website:

http://www.genpage.com/genealogyDNA.html

For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:

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To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message



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