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Archiver > Melungeon > 2011-04 > 1304039383


From: K T JAMES <>
Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] Historical Records.
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 18:09:43 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <81E83F256A5E49CCB78584EEF5AD6C35@Jack>


***The operational word here as far as I am concerned and should be pointed out as well was they were not all found guilty. Some were acquitted and Vardy was "nol processed". Can we just refrain from trying to determine why Vardy decided to just pay the fine rather than go into Rogersville. Perhaps he saw it as a waste of time since the rest of his family was acquitted. Maybe like when I got a traffic ticket (for real) and I decided to pay up instead of "showing up". Does that make me guiltier. No.

--- On Thu, 4/28/11, Jack Goins <> wrote:

> From: Jack Goins <>
> Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] Historical Records.
> To:
> Date: Thursday, April 28, 2011, 8:31 PM
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <>
> > -The news media which included Brownlow began
> spreading this term so
> > anyone
> > who looked half white/black may have been given this
> name,
> > -When Humble ask Beatty Collins son, who was a school
> teacher, about the
> > Melungeons he strongly resented its application to his
> people and replied
> > "
> > We are a Pure Blood, meaning at least that they
> didn’t have Negro blood in
> > their veins." As revealed in this interview by C. H.
> Humble, Melungeon
> > implied Negro blood
>
> > These are assumptions Jack.  You have no idea if
> Jarvis knew about the
> > Bolton case or not. We have no idea where Brownlow
> heard the word, or who
> > started the illegal voting dispute. If Brownlow was
> aware of all these
> > half Indian-half Negroes in Hancock in 1840 you would
> think he would have
> > made sure they didn't vote in August of 1845 or at
> least dispute it in
> > August and not wait til January.
>
> ### No Joaane you are making the assumptions.  It
> plainy says in this
> indictment the charges were for voting in  the
> election held in August 1845
> for Governor and Rep. The judges of the election made the
> decision to allow
> them to vote, the person who filed the charges was not
> named. The losers are
> normally the ones who challenge an election, that's not an
> assumption. The
> hearing where this was bound over to the Grand Jury was
> most likely in 1845
> we have not located the hearing. We have the records where
> this was turned
> over to the Grand Jury and their descision and the names of
> the Grand Jury
> who found them guilty, or you might say enough evidence to
> have them stand
> trial.
>
> Joanne wrote:
>   Humble 'assumed' Beatty Collins 'meant' "at least
> that they didn’t have
> Negro blood in their veins" and you assumed it 'implied'
> Melungeon meant
> Negro blood.  But how do you know Beatty Collins
> didn't mean they were 'Pure
> Blood' as in full blooded Indians -- and not mixed with
> anything including
> whites.  He was proud of his Cherokee ancestors.
>
> ## All of this paragraph was Humble speaking.including
> meaning at least that
> they didn’t have Negro blood in their veins, as below,
>
> "When Humble ask Beatty Collins son, who was a school
> teacher, about the
> > Melungeons he strongly resented its application to his
> people and replied
> > "
> > We are a Pure Blood, meaning at least that they
> didn’t have Negro blood in
> > their veins."
>
> This above statement by Humble is not an assumption by me.
> This was my
> conclusion from his statement :  As revealed in this
> interview by C. H.
> Humble, Melungeon
> implied Negro blood.
>
> >
> >
> > Walter Plecker was100+years after the fact - he wrote
> to Tennessee State
> > Archives who passed it on to Mrs. John Trotwood Moore
> -- why didn't she
> > know about the Boltons etc.?  Obviously she was
> only familiar with Lewis
> > Jarvis and not Lewis Shepherd --
> >> Joanne Pezzullo
>
> ### Right long enough that he and Moore would have known
> who the Melungeon
> were.  Jack
>
>
> > Historical Melungeon Indians
> > http://www.historical-melungeons.com/index.html
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jack Goins <>
> > To:
> > Sent: Thu, Apr 28, 2011 7:00 pm
> > Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] Historical Records.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <>
> > To: <>
> >> Jack you are supposing Jarvis knew about the
> Bolton case.  There is
> >> nothing to indicate he did, in fact if he had
> known of the Melungeons of
> >> Hamilton, Rhea, Wilson,, etc, he surely would have
> mentioned them, he was
> >> after all giving their history, I would suppose he
> was not aware of them
> >> as most of them had moved on by the time Jarvis
> was born. Unless or until
> >> a document is discovered that proves this one way
> or another it will
> >> remain supposition.  If Jarvis was the noted
> expert on Melungeons in
> >> Hancock County and knew them so intimately the
> only 'supposition' you can
> >> make is they were Indians.  Period. 
> Jarvis wrote;
> >
> >> "I personally knew Vardy Collins, Solomon D.
> Collins, Shepherd Gibson,
> >> Paul
> >> Bunch and Benjamin Bunch and many of the Goodmans,
> Moore's, Williams and
> >> Sullivan's, all of the very first settles and
> noted men of these friendly
> >> Indians."
> >
> > Joanne I'm not assuming anything, I'm just the
> messenger. You are missing
> > the most important points of this issue. #1- Why did
> Walter Plecker write
> > this letter to the Tennessee State Archives inquiring
> about who the
> > Melungeons were?  # 2- Why did the State
> Librarian use Lewis Jarvis to
> > describe and indentify the Melungeons?  #3 
> Just because Jarvis didn't
> > mention the Boltons and others in that trial, or the
> ones in Rhae and
> > Wilson
> > does not prove he didn't know about the 
> trial.  Why didn't the State
> > Lirarian and Archivist Mrs. John Triotworth Moore know
> about the ones in
> > Wilson and Rhae? My opinion is, both Jarvis and the
> State Librarian did
> > not
> > believe those people were Melungeon.  Jack
> >>
> >> Everything in their history -- from the 1848
> article on says they were
> >> Indians, no matter what their DNA says.
> >>
> >>
> >> Joanne Pezzullo
> >>
> >> Historical Melungeon Indians
> >> http://www.historical-melungeons.com/index.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Jack Goins <>
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Thu, Apr 28, 2011 3:49 pm
> >> Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] Historical Records.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: <>
> writes;
> >>
> >>> The problem with the letter from Jarvis is he
> is speaking only of the
> >>> Collins, Bunch, Goodman, Gibson and other
> names he mentioned. The people
> >>> called Melungeons he is speaking of had an
> entirely different history
> >>> and
> >>> migration pattern than the ''other
> Melungeons.''  He is not
> >>> taking into consideration the Bolton, Perkins,
> Shuemake, Goins etc.,
> >>> that were in Hamilton and Wilson Counties
> CALLED MELUNGEONS by 1850,
> >>> Jarvis did not know their names, their history
> or migration patterns.
> >>
> >> Joanne Most of the people Jarvis named and knew
> were born in 1700. I
> >> would
> >> lay odds Attorney Lewis Jarvis knew all about the
> Bolton case, he and his
> >> son were attorneys and they pass on cases,
> especially the ones sent to
> >> the
> >> Tennessee Supreme Court. In fact the Tennessee Law
> books purchase by most
> >> attorneys, list those appealed cases.
> >>
> >> Tennessee Librarian Mrs John Trotworth Moore
> quoted a letter written by
> >> Jarvis when he was 83 years old to Walter plecker
> and names the
> >> following;
> >> "I personally knew Vardy Collins, Solomon D.
> Collins, Shepherd Gibson,
> >> Paul
> >> Bunch and Benjamin Bunch and many of the Goodmans,
> Moore's, Williams and
> >> Sullivan's, all of the very first settles and
> noted men of these friendly
> >> Indians.
> >>
> >> Melungeon is like a "Nick-name" they sometime
> spread like wild fire from
> >> the
> >> place it first began, a good example is the way
> Lewis Shepherd explains
> >> in
> >> his memoirs.
> >>
> >> The families mentioned in this case, "the Goins,
> Shumake, Boltons,
> >> Perkins,
> >> Mornings, Menleys, Breedlove & others."These
> are the same people called
> >> Melungeons in the 1874 trial. Judge Shepherd
> wrote: "they came from South
> >> Carolina, across the mountains to now Hancock
> County, Tennessee, and
> >> spread
> >> out from there. Shepherd goes on to confirm where
> they came up with the
> >> term
> >> Melungeon in his case.
> >>
> >> "The term Melungeon is an East Tennessee
> provincialism it was coined by
> >> the
> >> people of that county to apply to these people."
> >>
> >> The oldest written record where the term Melungeon
> was used in a
> >> political
> >> campaign describes one as " a scoundrel who is
> half Indian and half
> >> Negro."
> >> This article was published 7 October 1840 in the
> Jonesboro Whig by
> >> William
> >> Ganaway "Parsons" Brownlow, a minister of the
> gospel.  I am convinced he
> >> heard this term Malungeon in his many travels to
> Hawkins County. and most
> >> likely he, or his campaign manager were the one
> who started the illegal
> >> voting dispute, since he was the loser in that
> 1845 election.
> >>
> >> The news media which included Brownlow began
> spreading this term so
> >> anyone
> >> who looked half white/black may have been given
> this name, another
> >> example
> >> of this description is in Edward Guerrant Civil
> War Journal after he came
> >> through Hancock County, but not enough information
> to show anything
> >> except
> >> his definition of a Melungeon was half white and
> half black and according
> >> to
> >> his example they were depicted as bad people. How
> did he know this
> >> description? This word had not made the
> dictionaries at this date.
> >>
> >> In the oldest written records, Melungeon was
> defined as being part Negro.
> >> The first known written visit to Vardy Valley was
> in 1848; "The
> >> Melungeons
> >> carefully preserved the Legend of their
> history.This ‘Legend’ according
> >> to
> >> the writer in Littell’s Living age, included an
> original descent from
> >> Portuguese adventures who later mixed with whites,
> Indians,and negroes.
> >>
> >> As you know this article was published in several
> newspapers across the
> >> United state and people began referring to dark
> skin people in various
> >> communities as Melungeons.
> >>
> >> After the Civil War most East Tennessee
> Congressmen and senators were
> >> referred to as Melungeons.
> >>
> >> If Melungeons were in all the places you have
> listed on your website it
> >> would be a race, it is pretty obvious who some of
> the reporters were, who
> >> spread this word.
> >>
> >> After the 1848 visit to Vardy Valley.  Vardy
> Collins descendants were
> >> revisited about 50 years later."On Friday
> forenoon, July 2, (1897) C.H.
> >> Humble the writer and Rev. Joseph Hamilton, of
> Parkersburg, West
> >> Virginia,
> >> started in a hack from Cumberland Gap, Tennessee
> for Beatty Collins,
> >> chief
> >> of the Melungeons in Blackwater.
> >>
> >> When Humble ask Beatty Collins son, who was a
> school teacher, about the
> >> Melungeons he strongly resented its application to
> his people and replied
> >> "
> >> We are a Pure Blood, meaning at least that they
> didn’t have Negro blood
> >> in
> >> their veins." As revealed in this interview by C.
> H. Humble, Melungeon
> >> implied Negro blood, a term they never used, or
> accepted as their
> >> identity
> >> and neither did they pass it down to their
> children, or grand children.
> >>
> >> Humble reference to Beatty Collins as chief of the
> Melungeons in
> >> Blackwater,
> >> which appears to have stuck to this family from
> the 1848 article. "Ole
> >> Vardy
> >> is chief cook and bottle-washer'of the
> Melungeons."
> >>
> >> A Clan name is a nickname and is usually only
> known to neighborhood where
> >> it
> >> began, as described by Edward T. Price in his 1950
> study of the clans,
> >> which
> >> included the Melungeons.
> >>
> >> I was not the originator of this theory a
> researcher who was not
> >> Melungeon
> >> related was in the Archive and he said my opinion
> is after the first
> >> description of a Melungeon began to spread this
> label was put on dark
> >> skin
> >> settlements and most of them did not know they
> were labeled Melungeon.
> >> And
> >> I
> >> will add especially a political rally or
> conference like the one in
> >> Richmond.
> >>
> >> Jack
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Historical Melungeon Indians
> >>> http://www.historical-melungeons.com/index.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Jack Goins <>
> >>> To:
> >>> Sent: Thu, Apr 28, 2011 10:55 am
> >>> Subject: [MELUNGEON] Historical Records.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> It is almost impossible to write an email on
> this subject without being
> >>> misquoted, so for clarification on my previous
> post on land grants and
> >>> migration with the white settlers. And for any
> of you who may be new to
> >>> the list. This is a portion of a letter from
> the Hancock County Times,
> >>> Sneedville, TN 4/17/1903 written by Lewis M.
> Jarvis, who was then an
> >>> Attorney. Lewis M. Jarvis was also a Captain
> in Co E, 8th Tennessee
> >>> Vol. Cavalry, Union Army. and was personally
> acquainted with Vardy
> >>> Collins and other Melungeons he names in this
> letter.     "Much has
> >>> been said and written about the inhabitants of
> Newman's Ridge and
> >>> Blackwater in Hancock County, Tenn. They have
> been derisively dubbed
> >>> with the name "Melungeons" by the local white
> people who have lived
> >>> here with them. It is not a traditional name
> or tribe of Indians. Some
> >>> have said these people were here when the
> white people first explored
> >>> this country. Others say they are a lost tribe
> of the Indians having no
> >>> date of their existence here, traditionally or
> otherwise. All of this
> >>> however, is erroneous and cannot be sustained.
> These people, not any of
> >>> them were here at the time the first white
> hunting party came from
> >>> Virginia and North Carolina in the year 1761--
> the noted Daniel Boone
> >>> was at the head of one of these hunting
> parties and went on through
> >>> Cumberland Gap.---they came here
> simultaneously with the white people
> >>> not earlier than 1795." In 2005 I formed a
> group called Friends of The
> >>> Hawkins County Archive Project, and was
> appointed Archivist by the
> >>> Hawkins County Commissioners. The old records
> from the basement of our
> >>> old Court house was moved to the placed
> designated to be the archive.
> >>> These records  date back to 1787 and up
> until 1844 Hancock County was
> >>> part of Hawkins County, but due to a border
> dispute and other factors
> >>> the illegal voting trials were held in Hawkins
> County, they began in
> >>> 1846 and ended 1848, these Circuit Court
> records would have been lost
> >>> due the Hancock County Court house  being
> destroyed by fire,at least 3
> >>> times. We were fortunate to find the 1845
> election results where they
> >>> were charged for illegal voting as free
> persons of color. In this
> >>> election William G. Brownlow lost to Andrew
> Johnson. This included the
> >>> most famous Vardy Collins, along with
> Zachariah Minor, his brother and
> >>> other Collins.  This is our 7th year and
> many of the first volunteers
> >>> are still here. All  of  you are
> wel! come to research our archives, to
> >>> view our archive click on this link, select
> Government then Hawkins
> >>> County Archive. Instead of charging a fee for
> copying records we ask
> >>> for a reasonable donation. The Chancery Court
> link is
> >>> down.Jackhttp://www.hawkinscountytn.gov/
> >>>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~MELUNGEON Mailing
> List
> >>> Archives:http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeonLost
> >>> Colony:http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.comMelungeon
> >>> Website:http://www.jgoins.com/Melungeon
> >>> Blogs:http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.comhttp://www.h
> >>> istorical-melungeons.blogspot.comFor list
> problems contact
> >>> Administrator Janet Crain at:
> >>>
> unsubscribe from the
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> >>> word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the
> subject and the body of
> >>> the message
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
> >>> Melungeon Website:
> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>> For list problems contact Administrator Janet
> Crain at:
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>
> >> MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
> >>
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> >>
> >> Lost Colony:
> >>
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> >>
> >> Melungeon Website:
> >>
> >> http://www.jgoins.com/
> >>
> >> Melungeon Blogs:
> >>
> >> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >> For list problems contact Administrator Janet
> Crain at:
> >>
> >> -------------------------------
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> to
> >>
> >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in
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> >> body
> >> of
> >> the message
> >>
> >>
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>
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> >>
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> >>
> >> Lost Colony:
> >>
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> >>
> >> Melungeon Website:
> >>
> >> http://www.jgoins.com/
> >>
> >> Melungeon Blogs:
> >>
> >> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >> For list problems contact Administrator Janet
> Crain at:
> >>
> >> -------------------------------
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> to
> >>
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
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> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
> > Melungeon Blogs:
> >
> > http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
> >
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> >
> >
> > For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain
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> >
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> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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> >
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> >
> > http://www.jgoins.com/
> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
> >
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>
> >
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> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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