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Archiver > Melungeon > 2011-04 > 1304050479


From: K T JAMES <>
Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] Historical Records.
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 21:14:39 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <8CDD425433ABFAC-2098-6524@Webmail-d125.sysops.aol.com>


Maybe. Who knows for sure why he chose not to go? I'm okay with the fact that he didn't go.

--- On Thu, 4/28/11, <> wrote:

> From: <>
> Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] Historical Records.
> To:
> Date: Thursday, April 28, 2011, 9:38 PM
>
> ***The operational word here as far as I am concerned and
> should be
> pointed out as well was they were not all found
> guilty.  Some were
> acquitted and Vardy was "nol processed".  Can we just
> refrain from
> trying to determine why Vardy decided to just pay the fine
> rather than
> go into Rogersville.  Perhaps he saw it as a waste of
> time since the
> rest of his family was acquitted.  Maybe like when I
> got a traffic
> ticket (for real) and I decided to pay up instead of
> "showing up". 
> Does that make me guiltier.  No.
>
>
> Or maybe since it was not long after the Indian removal
> Vardy simply
> did not want to have to go to court and prove his ancestors
> were
> Indians.
>
>
>
> Joanne Pezzullo
>  
> Historical Melungeon Indians
> http://www.historical-melungeons.com/index.html
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: K T JAMES <>
> To:
> Sent: Thu, Apr 28, 2011 9:09 pm
> Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] Historical Records.
>
>
> ***The operational word here as far as I am concerned and
> should be
> pointed out as well was they were not all found
> guilty.  Some were
> acquitted and Vardy was "nol processed".  Can we just
> refrain from
> trying to determine why Vardy decided to just pay the fine
> rather than
> go into Rogersville.  Perhaps he saw it as a waste of
> time since the
> rest of his family was acquitted.  Maybe like when I
> got a traffic
> ticket (for real) and I decided to pay up instead of
> "showing up". 
> Does that make me guiltier.  No.  --- On Thu,
> 4/28/11, Jack Goins
> <>
> wrote:> From: Jack Goins <>>
> Subject:
> Re: [MELUNGEON] Historical Records.> To: >
> Date:
> Thursday, April 28, 2011, 8:31 PM> > ----- Original
> Message ----- >
> From: <>>
> > -The news media which included
> Brownlow began> spreading this term so > >
> anyone> > who looked half
> white/black may have been given this> name,> >
> -When Humble ask Beatty
> Collins son, who was a school> teacher, about the>
> > Melungeons he
> strongly resented its application to his> people and
> replied > > "> >
> We are a Pure Blood, meaning at least that they>
> didn’t have Negro
> blood in> > their veins." As revealed in this
> interview by C. H.>
> Humble, Melungeon> > implied Negro blood> >
> > These are assumptions
> Jack.  You have no idea if> Jarvis knew about the >
> > Bolton case or
> not. We have no idea where Brownlow> heard the word, or
> who > > started
> the illegal voting dispute. If Brownlow was> aware of
> all these > >
> half Indian-half Negroes in Hancock in 1840 you would>
> think he would
> have > > made sure they didn't vote in August of 1845
> or at> least
> dispute it in > > August and not wait til
> January.> > ### No Joaane you
> are making the assumptions.  It> plainy says in this
> > indictment the
> charges were for voting in  the> election held in
> August 1845 > for
> Governor and Rep. The judges of the election made the>
> decision to
> allow > them to vote, the person who filed the charges
> was not> named.
> The losers are > normally the ones who challenge an
> election, that's
> not an> assumption. The > hearing where this was
> bound over to the
> Grand Jury was> most likely in 1845 > we have not
> located the hearing.
> We have the records where> this was turned > over to
> the Grand Jury and
> their descision and the names of> the Grand Jury >
> who found them
> guilty, or you might say enough evidence to> have them
> stand > trial.>
> > Joanne wrote:>   Humble 'assumed' Beatty Collins
> 'meant' "at least>
> that they didn’t have > Negro blood in their veins"
> and you assumed it
> 'implied'> Melungeon meant > Negro blood.  But how
> do you know Beatty
> Collins> didn't mean they were 'Pure > Blood' as in
> full blooded
> Indians -- and not mixed with> anything including >
> whites.  He was
> proud of his Cherokee ancestors.> > ## All of this
> paragraph was Humble
> speaking.including> meaning at least that > they
> didn’t have Negro
> blood in their veins, as below,> > "When Humble ask
> Beatty Collins son,
> who was a school> teacher, about the> > Melungeons
> he strongly resented
> its application to his> people and replied > >
> "> > We are a Pure
> Blood, meaning at least that they> didn’t have Negro
> blood in> > their
> veins."> > This above statement by Humble is not an
> assumption by me.>
> This was my > conclusion from his statement :  As
> revealed in this>
> interview by C. H. > Humble, Melungeon> implied Negro
> blood.> > >> >> >
> Walter Plecker was100+years after the fact - he wrote>
> to Tennessee
> State > > Archives who passed it on to Mrs. John
> Trotwood Moore> -- why
> didn't she > > know about the Boltons etc.? 
> Obviously she was> only
> familiar with Lewis > > Jarvis and not Lewis Shepherd
> -- > >> Joanne
> Pezzullo> > ### Right long enough that he and Moore
> would have known>
> who the Melungeon > were.  Jack> > > >
> Historical Melungeon Indians> >
> http://www.historical-melungeons.com/index.html>;
> >> >> >> >
> -----Original Message-----> > From: Jack Goins <>>
> > To:
> >
> > Sent: Thu, Apr 28, 2011 7:00 pm> > Subject:
> Re: [MELUNGEON] Historical Records.> >> >>
> >> > ----- Original Message
> ----- > > From: <>>
> > To:
> <>>
> >> Jack you are supposing Jarvis knew about
> the> Bolton case.  There is> >> nothing to
> indicate he did, in fact if
> he had> known of the Melungeons of> >>
> Hamilton, Rhea, Wilson,, etc, he
> surely would have> mentioned them, he was> >>
> after all giving their
> history, I would suppose he> was not aware of them>
> >> as most of them
> had moved on by the time Jarvis> was born. Unless or
> until> >> a
> document is discovered that proves this one way> or
> another it will> >>
> remain supposition.  If Jarvis was the noted> expert on
> Melungeons in>
> >> Hancock County and knew them so intimately
> the> only 'supposition'
> you can> >> make is they were Indians. 
> Period. > Jarvis wrote;> >> >>
> "I personally knew Vardy Collins, Solomon D.> Collins,
> Shepherd
> Gibson,> >> Paul> >> Bunch and Benjamin
> Bunch and many of the
> Goodmans,> Moore's, Williams and> >>
> Sullivan's, all of the very first
> settles and> noted men of these friendly> >>
> Indians."> >> > Joanne I'm
> not assuming anything, I'm just the> messenger. You are
> missing> > the
> most important points of this issue. #1- Why did> Walter
> Plecker write>
> > this letter to the Tennessee State Archives
> inquiring> about who the>
> > Melungeons were?  # 2- Why did the State>
> Librarian use Lewis Jarvis
> to> > describe and indentify the Melungeons? 
> #3 > Just because Jarvis
> didn't> > mention the Boltons and others in that
> trial, or the> ones in
> Rhae and > > Wilson> > does not prove he didn't
> know about the >
> trial.  Why didn't the State> > Lirarian and
> Archivist Mrs. John
> Triotworth Moore know> about the ones in> > Wilson
> and Rhae? My opinion
> is, both Jarvis and the> State Librarian did > >
> not> > believe those
> people were Melungeon.  Jack> >>> >>
> Everything in their history --
> from the 1848> article on says they were> >>
> Indians, no matter what
> their DNA says.> >>> >>> >>
> Joanne Pezzullo> >>> >> Historical
> Melungeon Indians> >> http://www.historical-melungeons.com/index.html>;
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> -----Original Message-----> >> From: Jack Goins
> <>>
> >> To: >
> >> Sent: Thu, Apr 28,
> 2011 3:49 pm> >> Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON]
> Historical Records.> >>> >>>
> >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >
> >> From:
> <>>
> writes;> >>> >>> The problem with the
> letter
> from Jarvis is he> is speaking only of the>
> >>> Collins, Bunch,
> Goodman, Gibson and other> names he mentioned. The
> people> >>> called
> Melungeons he is speaking of had an> entirely different
> history > >>>
> and> >>> migration pattern than the ''other>
> Melungeons.''  He is not>
> >>> taking into consideration the Bolton,
> Perkins,> Shuemake, Goins
> etc.,> >>> that were in Hamilton and Wilson
> Counties> CALLED MELUNGEONS
> by 1850,> >>> Jarvis did not know their names,
> their history> or
> migration patterns.> >>> >> Joanne Most
> of the people Jarvis named and
> knew> were born in 1700. I > >> would>
> >> lay odds Attorney Lewis
> Jarvis knew all about the> Bolton case, he and his>
> >> son were
> attorneys and they pass on cases,> especially the ones
> sent to > >>
> the> >> Tennessee Supreme Court. In fact the
> Tennessee Law> books
> purchase by most> >> attorneys, list those
> appealed cases.> >>> >>
> Tennessee Librarian Mrs John Trotworth Moore> quoted a
> letter written
> by> >> Jarvis when he was 83 years old to Walter
> plecker> and names the
> > >> following;> >> "I personally knew
> Vardy Collins, Solomon D.>
> Collins, Shepherd Gibson,> >> Paul> >>
> Bunch and Benjamin Bunch and
> many of the Goodmans,> Moore's, Williams and>
> >> Sullivan's, all of the
> very first settles and> noted men of these friendly>
> >> Indians.> >>>
> >> Melungeon is like a "Nick-name" they sometime>
> spread like wild fire
> from> >> the> >> place it first began, a
> good example is the way> Lewis
> Shepherd explains > >> in> >> his
> memoirs.> >>> >> The families
> mentioned in this case, "the Goins,> Shumake,
> Boltons,> >> Perkins,> >>
> Mornings, Menleys, Breedlove & others."These> are
> the same people
> called> >> Melungeons in the 1874 trial. Judge
> Shepherd> wrote: "they
> came from South> >> Carolina, across the mountains
> to now Hancock>
> County, Tennessee, and> >> spread> >> out
> from there. Shepherd goes on
> to confirm where> they came up with the> >>
> term> >> Melungeon in his
> case.> >>> >> "The term Melungeon is an
> East Tennessee> provincialism
> it was coined by> >> the> >> people of
> that county to apply to these
> people."> >>> >> The oldest written
> record where the term Melungeon>
> was used in a > >> political> >> campaign
> describes one as " a
> scoundrel who is> half Indian and half> >>
> Negro."> >> This article was
> published 7 October 1840 in the> Jonesboro Whig by >
> >> William> >>
> Ganaway "Parsons" Brownlow, a minister of the> gospel. 
> I am convinced
> he> >> heard this term Malungeon in his many
> travels to> Hawkins
> County. and most> >> likely he, or his campaign
> manager were the one>
> who started the illegal> >> voting dispute, since
> he was the loser in
> that> 1845 election.> >>> >> The news
> media which included Brownlow
> began> spreading this term so > >> anyone>
> >> who looked half
> white/black may have been given> this name, another>
> >> example> >> of
> this description is in Edward Guerrant Civil> War
> Journal after he
> came> >> through Hancock County, but not enough
> information> to show
> anything > >> except> >> his definition
> of a Melungeon was half white
> and> half black and according> >> to>
> >> his example they were depicted
> as bad people. How> did he know this> >>
> description? This word had not
> made the> dictionaries at this date.> >>>
> >> In the oldest written
> records, Melungeon was> defined as being part Negro.>
> >> The first
> known written visit to Vardy Valley was> in 1848; "The
> > >> Melungeons>
> >> carefully preserved the Legend of their>
> history.This ‘Legend’
> according > >> to> >> the writer in
> Littell’s Living age, included an>
> original descent from> >> Portuguese adventures
> who later mixed with
> whites,> Indians,and negroes.> >>> >>
> As you know this article was
> published in several> newspapers across the> >>
> United state and people
> began referring to dark> skin people in various>
> >> communities as
> Melungeons.> >>> >> After the Civil War
> most East Tennessee>
> Congressmen and senators were> >> referred to as
> Melungeons.> >>> >> If
> Melungeons were in all the places you have> listed on
> your website it>
> >> would be a race, it is pretty obvious who some
> of> the reporters
> were, who> >> spread this word.> >>>
> >> After the 1848 visit to Vardy
> Valley.  Vardy> Collins descendants were> >>
> revisited about 50 years
> later."On Friday> forenoon, July 2, (1897) C.H.>
> >> Humble the writer
> and Rev. Joseph Hamilton, of> Parkersburg, West >
> >> Virginia,> >>
> started in a hack from Cumberland Gap, Tennessee> for
> Beatty Collins, >
> >> chief> >> of the Melungeons in
> Blackwater.> >>> >> When Humble ask
> Beatty Collins son, who was a> school teacher, about
> the> >> Melungeons
> he strongly resented its application to> his people and
> replied> >> ">
> >> We are a Pure Blood, meaning at least that
> they> didn’t have Negro
> blood > >> in> >> their veins." As
> revealed in this interview by C.> H.
> Humble, Melungeon> >> implied Negro blood, a term
> they never used, or>
> accepted as their > >> identity> >> and
> neither did they pass it down
> to their> children, or grand children.> >>>
> >> Humble reference to
> Beatty Collins as chief of the> Melungeons in>
> >> Blackwater,> >> which
> appears to have stuck to this family from> the 1848
> article. "Ole> >>
> Vardy> >> is chief cook and bottle-washer'of
> the> Melungeons."> >>> >>
> A Clan name is a nickname and is usually only> known to
> neighborhood
> where> >> it> >> began, as described by
> Edward T. Price in his 1950>
> study of the clans,> >> which> >>
> included the Melungeons.> >>> >> I
> was not the originator of this theory a> researcher who
> was not > >>
> Melungeon> >> related was in the Archive and he
> said my opinion> is
> after the first> >> description of a Melungeon
> began to spread this>
> label was put on dark > >> skin> >>
> settlements and most of them did
> not know they> were labeled Melungeon. > >>
> And> >> I> >> will add
> especially a political rally or> conference like the one
> in> >>
> Richmond.> >>> >> Jack> >>>
> >>> >>>> >>> Historical
> Melungeon Indians>
> >>> http://www.historical-melungeons.com/index.html>;
> >>>> >>>> >>>
> -----Original Message-----> >>> From: Jack
> Goins <>>
> >>>
> To: >
> >>> Sent: Thu, Apr 28, 2011 10:55 am>
> >>>
> Subject: [MELUNGEON] Historical Records.>
> >>>> >>>> >>> It is almost
>
> impossible to write an email on> this subject without
> being> >>>
> misquoted, so for clarification on my previous> post on
> land grants
> and> >>> migration with the white settlers. And
> for any> of you who may
> be new to> >>> the list. This is a portion of a
> letter from> the
> Hancock County Times,> >>> Sneedville, TN
> 4/17/1903 written by Lewis
> M.> Jarvis, who was then an> >>> Attorney.
> Lewis M. Jarvis was also a
> Captain> in Co E, 8th Tennessee> >>> Vol.
> Cavalry, Union Army. and was
> personally> acquainted with Vardy> >>>
> Collins and other Melungeons he
> names in this> letter.     "Much has>
> >>> been said and written about
> the inhabitants of> Newman's Ridge and> >>>
> Blackwater in Hancock
> County, Tenn. They have> been derisively dubbed>
> >>> with the name
> "Melungeons" by the local white> people who have
> lived> >>> here with
> them. It is not a traditional name> or tribe of Indians.
> Some> >>> have
> said these people were here when the> white people first
> explored> >>>
> this country. Others say they are a lost tribe> of the
> Indians having
> no> >>> date of their existence here,
> traditionally or> otherwise. All
> of this> >>> however, is erroneous and cannot
> be sustained.> These
> people, not any of> >>> them were here at the
> time the first white>
> hunting party came from> >>> Virginia and North
> Carolina in the year
> 1761--> the noted Daniel Boone> >>> was at
> the head of one of these
> hunting> parties and went on through> >>>
> Cumberland Gap.---they came
> here> simultaneously with the white people>
> >>> not earlier than 1795."
> In 2005 I formed a> group called Friends of The>
> >>> Hawkins County
> Archive Project, and was> appointed Archivist by the>
> >>> Hawkins
> County Commissioners. The old records> from the basement
> of our> >>>
> old Court house was moved to the placed> designated to
> be the archive.>
> >>> These records  date back to 1787 and up>
> until 1844 Hancock County
> was> >>> part of Hawkins County, but due to a
> border> dispute and other
> factors> >>> the illegal voting trials were
> held in Hawkins> County,
> they began in> >>> 1846 and ended 1848, these
> Circuit Court> records
> would have been lost> >>> due the Hancock
> County Court house  being>
> destroyed by fire,at least 3> >>> times. We
> were fortunate to find the
> 1845> election results where they> >>> were
> charged for illegal voting
> as free> persons of color. In this> >>>
> election William G. Brownlow
> lost to Andrew> Johnson. This included the>
> >>> most famous Vardy
> Collins, along with> Zachariah Minor, his brother
> and> >>> other
> Collins.  This is our 7th year and> many of the first
> volunteers> >>>
> are still here. All  of  you are> wel! come to
> research our archives,
> to> >>> view our archive click on this link,
> select> Government then
> Hawkins> >>> County Archive. Instead of
> charging a fee for> copying
> records we ask> >>> for a reasonable donation.
> The Chancery Court> link
> is> >>> down.Jackhttp://www.hawkinscountytn.gov/>; >>>>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~MELUNGEON
> Mailing> List> >>>
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> >>>
> Colony:http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.comMelungeon>;
> >>>
> Website:http://www.jgoins.com/Melungeon>;
> >>>
> Blogs:http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.comhttp://www.h
> > >>> istorical-melungeons.blogspot.comFor
> list> problems contact> >>>
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> >
> unsubscribe from
> the> >>> list, please send an email to >
>
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> the body of> >>> the message>
> >>>> >>>> >>>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
> >>>> >>> MELUNGEON Mailing
> List Archives:> >>>> >>>
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> >>>> >>> Lost
> Colony:> >>>> >>> http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com>;
> >>>> >>>
> Melungeon Website:> >>>> >>> http://www.jgoins.com/>; >>>>
> >>> Melungeon
> Blogs:> >>>> >>>
> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com>;
> >>>> >>>
> http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com>;
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> >>>
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> >>>> >>>
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> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> >>>
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> Archives:> >>> >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon>;
>
> >>> >> Lost Colony:> >>>
> >> http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com>;
> >>> >>
> Melungeon Website:> >>> >> http://www.jgoins.com/>; >>> >>
> Melungeon
> Blogs:> >>> >> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com>;
>
> >>> >> http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com>;
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> list problems contact Administrator Janet> Crain at: >
>
> >>> >> ------------------------------->
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> list, please send an email> to> >> >
> >>
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> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> >>>
> >> MELUNGEON Mailing List
> Archives:> >>> >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon>;
>
> >>> >> Lost Colony:> >>>
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> >>> >>
> Melungeon Website:> >>> >> http://www.jgoins.com/>; >>> >>
> Melungeon
> Blogs:> >>> >> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com>;
>
> >>> >> http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com>;
> >>> >>> >> For
> list problems contact Administrator Janet> Crain at: >
>
> >>> >> ------------------------------->
> >> To unsubscribe from the
> list, please send an email> to> >> >
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> the word 'unsubscribe' without the> >> quotes in
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> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> >> >
> MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:> >> >
> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon>;
> >> > Lost
> Colony:> >> > http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com>; >> >
> Melungeon
> Website:> >> > http://www.jgoins.com/>; >> >
> Melungeon Blogs:> >> >
> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com>;
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> >> >
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> from the list, please
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> >> > Lost
> Colony:> >> > http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com>; >> >
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> Website:> >> > http://www.jgoins.com/>; >> >
> Melungeon Blogs:> >> >
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> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> > MELUNGEON
> Mailing List Archives:> >
> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon>;
> > Lost Colony:> >
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> Website:> >
> http://www.jgoins.com/>; > Melungeon Blogs:>
> >
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> message~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~MELUNGEON
> Mailing List
> Archives:http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeonLost
>
> Colony:http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.comMelungeon
> Website:http://www.jgoins.com/Melungeon
> Blogs:http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.comhttp://www.h
> istorical-melungeons.blogspot.comFor list problems contact
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> unsubscribe from the
> list, please send an email to
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>  
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
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>
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>
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>
> http://www.jgoins.com/
>
> Melungeon Blogs:
>
> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
>
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