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From: "Janet Crain" <>
Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 22:57:59 -0500
References: <861049.67052.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>


Scott; Have you ever tried to exercise your treaty rights? If so, would you
share with us, the results?

Janet Crain



----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Collins" <>
To: "Don Collins" <>; <>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History


> All Native American Indians assimilated . They were forced to do so.
> Native ways don't go away just because of assimilation and the so called
> "melungeons" still retained some of their Native ways. In fact many of the
> Native ways became a part of the White colonists ways when they got here.
> All Native American Indians buy underwear, live in the same manner, buy
> groceries at supermarkets, send their kids to school, watch T.V., have
> phones; all the same as the dominant American culture. Native American
> Indians, generally, don't live in Tipis, Wigwams, Hogans, or ride out in
> mass hunting migrations to hunt down the buffalo. Most if not all those
> cultural traits ended with reservations and the onslaught of American
> expansionism. There are very few traditionalists that live in ancient
> style housing
> off the grid. The vast majority live like everyone else. All tribes in the
> U.S. have either lost their language or are on the verge of loosing it.
> That is why there is so much infusis on language programs. Religion is a
> matter of personal belief so all tribes have people among them that
> believe in different religions while some retain a Native religion and
> some are reconnecting with their ancestors religion. This is exactly what
> is occuring in the dominant culture as well. My family still uses the old
> ways on many levels and some still remember a few words of the old
> language. There is no quantum limitation in the old treaties, not even a
> one drop limitation. An Indian descendant that has totally assimilated
> into Anglo or Afro American culture with no trace of "living as an
> Indian", still has treaty rights. My families still retain some traces of
> their culture whether anyone outsider or they themselves recognize it or
> not. Don I'm sure that if you ask
> some of your relatives, I'm sure that at least one of your elders or kin
> will remember a few "superstitions" that have stayed within the family
> regardless of whether they are Christian or not. There are lots of small
> cultural survivals such as this that did make it. We as Indian people,
> mixed blood Indian people, don't have to all come off Rez to be Indian. We
> don't all have to know our people's language to be Indian. We don't all
> have to believe the same religion to be Indian. We don't even have to
> maintain any survivals of our people's culture to be Indians. The only
> thing that makes you Indian, according to the old treaties, is lineage and
> even including adoption or captivity. There no stipulation in the treaties
> that dictates the abolishment of Indianess, or the treaties, based on
> assimilation or loss of culture. The difference between mixed blood Indian
> people and other mixed blood communities is treaty obligation. The so
> called "melungeons", two
> or three main groups designated as with that false moniker have been
> linked back to the Saponi and Sara/Cheraw/Lumbee tribes. The Nansemond
> were amalgamated with the Saponi in 1713 per Executive Council Journals of
> Virginia. The Pee Dee River settlements encompassed many of Virginia and
> North Carolina's interior and Coastal tribes. The BIA criterion and
> definitions of tribes do include communities that originated in more than
> one tribe that came together as a unit or community.
>
> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode25/usc_sec_25_00001801----000-.html
>
>
>
> TITLE 25 > CHAPTER 20 > § 1801
>
>
>
> § 1801. Definitions
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (a)
> For purposes of this chapter, the term—
>
>
>
>
> (1)
> “Indian” means a person who is a member of an Indian tribe;
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (2)
> “Indian tribe” means any Indian tribe, band,
> nation, or other organized group or community, including any Alaskan
> Native village or regional or village corporation as defined in or
> established pursuant to the Alaskan Native Claims Settlement Act [43
> U.S.C. 1601
> et seq.], which is recognized as eligible for the special programs and
> services provided by the United States to Indians because of their
> status as Indians;
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Scott P. Collins
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR
>
>
>
> Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle
>
>
>
> “Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.”
>
>
>
> "The greater the denial the greater the awakening."
>
> --- On Wed, 6/8/11, Don Collins <> wrote:
>
> From: Don Collins <>
> Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History
> To:
> Date: Wednesday, June 8, 2011, 3:11 PM
>
> "All Indians in the U.S. were assimilated, de-cultured, re-educated,
> language taken away, religion changed, etc"
>
> Are you sure ? Of the 22 Tribes in the State I live in (New Mexico) , all
> still have their languages, Tribal ways (Religion), and Cultures intact.
> Some individuals have converted to Christianity, and speak English or
> Spanish as their first language, but the Tribes are still strong
> culturally.
>
> Seems like what you are advocating is the old "One Drop Law" with a
> new
> spin.
>
> Don Collins
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Collins" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 12:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History
>
>
>> It is more than obvious that the only reason these communities were of
> interest was because of their Native American Indian heritage. All of the
> early Bureau of American Ethnology reports of these communities had to do
> with investigating the Native American aspect. With out it their would not
> have been enough interest in doing reports in the manner that was done.
> They
> would have called them mixed African communities or bi-racially mixed
> African communities and those studies didn't start
> until much later. It is
> clear that these communities foundations were Native American Indian in
> origin and continued to be Native American mixed blood communities through
> out time as they are today. I don't think anyone is disputing the fact
> that
> some of our families mixed with African, Asian, and European ancestry.
> That
> is obvious. What is disputed is the lack of understanding that mixed blood
> Indian communities are Indian regardless of admixture, quantum, or even
>> majority cultural affiliation. All Indians in the U.S. were assimilated,
> de-cultured, re-educated, language taken away, religion changed, etc. All
> Indians are descendants of Indians. All Indian descendants are still
> covered
> under the treaties their ancestor's tribe signed long ago. No blood
> quantums
> were stipulated in the past treaties. No geographic boundaries were
> inserted
> to take away treaty obligation. No rules or subclauses on inter-mixtures
> of
> any race with them or their future families. No mention in those treaties
> of
> membership stipulation in a tribe. Those treaties covered all the people
> of
> those specific tribe in perpetuity. No amount of blood quantum, no race
> admixture, no level of de-cultralization or assimilation negates those
> treaty rights or Indianess. That is the bottom line. Many of the Seminole
> and Choctaw that are federally recognized are tri-racial and many look
> more
> African or White than Native American. No one is questioning their
>> right to claim their heritage. Why should it be any different for the so
> called "Melungeons"?
>>
>> Scott P. Collins
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR
>>
>>
>>
>> Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle
>>
>>
>>
>> “Men and women become
> accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.”
>>
>>
>>
>> "The greater the denial the greater the awakening."
>>
>> --- On Tue, 6/7/11, K T JAMES <> wrote:
>>
>> From: K T JAMES <>
>> Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History
>> To:
>> Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 5:45 PM
>>
>>
>> "What is, is; it is your struggling against it that causes your
> suffering."
>>
>> And that is the crux of the whole thing. Some have preconceived ideas of
> what we were and consequently we "must be"
> that!
>>
>> Why look in the trunk in the attic when they won't believe documented
> facts already out there, Twanda?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Tue, 6/7/11, Twanda <> wrote:
>>
>> > From: Twanda <>
>> > Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History
>> > To:
>> > Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 4:05 PM
>> > Mike
>> > Good points, and thank you for posting.
>> > I agree with your thoughts. There are pods of Melungeon
>> > "looking" peoples all
>> > over this country. I have met with many of them.
> The
>> > mixture of "black-
>> > moor", African, Portughee, Turkish, Spanish, Northern
>> > Italian, European, and on
>> > and on and on, can lend to the color of dark skin. In
>> > Italy alone, the Northern
>> > Italians are very dark skinned, the south very light. The
>> > same with the
>> > Portughese, the Northern
>> > are very dark, the southern are light skinned.
>> > There is definitely mixed blood. I sure wish that someone
>> > could go into the
>> > attic and into the old trunks stored there and find the
>> > answers for us.
>> > Be safe
>> > Twanda
>> > "What is, is; it is your struggling against it that
>> > causes your suffering."
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> > From: Mike Fields <>
>> > To:
>> > Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 8:22:30 AM
>> > Subject: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History
>> >
>> > Here's my 2 cents on the history of Melungeon's:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > If we read history, we know the Spanish did in fact explore
>> > South and North
>> > Carolina, and areas in Europe as well. So, you possibly had
>> > an already mixed
>> > group of Northern Europeans coming to this country, then
>> > mixing with INDIANS
>> > who had possibly already mixed with Spanish, Portuguese,
>> > and other
>> > Mediterranean people. Now, these Mediterranean people had
>> >
> mixed with people
>> > from Africa prior to coming here. So, you have Northern
>> > European people
>> > mixing with Indians in this country, which resulted in a
>> > dark race of people
>> > that looked more Mediterranean than their neighbors. To me,
>> > this makes more
>> > sense than a group of dark people coming out of thin air
>> > and pulling English
>> > names out of their hats. I think the mix of Indian and
>> > Northern European
>> > came from the areas that are documented in history, and I
>> > am a firm believer
>> > that the African mix also happened here. I think people
>> > focus too much on
>> > East Tenn. when discussing Melungeons. There is a large
>> > group of people in
>> > Eastern Kentucky even today that still look very
>> > Mediterranean. I think some
>> > of these families
> probably identified as Indian, some
>> > African American, some
>> > that was fair skinned pulled off being white. This is
>> > evident with my
>> > family. My point is we are a mix, and we know that. People
>> > want to strictly
>> > identify as Indian, Portuguese, etc, when it is impossible
>> > to identify as
>> > only one race. Every family is a different mix, and there
>> > are MULTIPLE
>> > families that can be called Melungeon in Eastern KY. If you
>> > research the
>> > Begley family in Leslie County KY, this family was always
>> > known as the Black
>> > Begleys. No, they are not on the Melungeon surname list,
>> > but are one of the
>> > most talked about Melungeon families in that area.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> >
>> > MELUNGEON
> Mailing List Archives:
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
>> > Melungeon Website:
>> >
>> > http://www.jgoins.com/
>> >
>> > Melungeon Blogs:
>> >
>> > http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
>> >
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>> >
>> >
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>
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> Website:
>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>> >
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>
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>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
>>
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>>
>> Lost Colony:
>>
>> http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
>>
>> Melungeon Website:
>>
>> http://www.jgoins.com/
>>
>> Melungeon Blogs:
>>
>> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
>>
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>>
>>
>> For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
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>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
>>
>> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
>>
>> Lost Colony:
>>
>> http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
>>
>> Melungeon Website:
>>
>> http://www.jgoins.com/
>>
>> Melungeon Blogs:
>>
>> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
>>
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>>
>>
>> For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:
>>
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>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
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> 'unsubscribe' without the
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>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
>
> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
>
> Lost Colony:
>
> http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
>
> Melungeon Website:
>
> http://www.jgoins.com/
>
> Melungeon Blogs:
>
> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
>
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>
>
> For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
>
> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
>
> Lost Colony:
>
> http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
>
> Melungeon Website:
>
> http://www.jgoins.com/
>
> Melungeon Blogs:
>
> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
>
> http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
>
>
> For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:
>
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