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Archiver > Melungeon > 2011-06 > 1307759589


From: "Don Collins" <>
Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 20:33:09 -0600
References: <380-22011661113454555@earthlink.net>


Hello Russ,
I do remember you. Thanks for your kind words. I often visit your site:
www.bunchcousins.com

As you know my Collins line has many Y-DNA matches with Bunch's, with a new
one that is very close, to a James Bunch of Anderson Co. TN. His parents
appear to be unknown, but it's said he was born in South Carolina.

My line is brick walled with Valentine Collins, so I have no idea what
Native American group/tribe we might descend from. Plus having a Sub-Saharan
African Y- DNA Haplogroup (E1b1a8a), it makes research more complex.

"If you don't know who they were , you won't know what they were"

I don't doubt, because of family lore and Census records that we do have
Native American ancestors, as we do European and African. We just don't know
who they were.

The more I research the more I realized that our 'mixed blood' culture was
part of the foundation of what today is called 'Appalachian Culture',
including the precious dialect.

I'm satisfied knowing my family is mixed blood, and I'm not about to throw
any of the races/cultures 'under the bus' in favor of an other.

On a lighter note, I've been 'working' with another Bunch/Collins direct
descendent and we are starting to think we are actually 'Bunlins' and come
from the "Woods Colt Clan' , if you are unfamiliar with the term 'Wood's
Colt', Google it, and have a good laugh.

Thanks again Russ.

Don Collins




----- Original Message -----
From: "Russ Klicker" <>
To: "Don Collins <>," <>
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History


> Don,
>
> We exchanged e-mail a while back - I'm a Bunch up my mom's side. You've
> posted some great comments lately! I wish more folks would realize that
> the end game doesn't have to be enrollment into the Cherokee Nation. When
> our ancestors left the Cherokee or Saponi or whatever communities and
> married into the European society, they left the culture behind. Maybe
not
> immediately but certainly over the generations. The Cherokee Nation has
> been preserving and cultivating the Cherokee culture and this makes them
> what they are. I do traditional games (cornstalk shoots) with the
Cherokee
> Nation & Kituwahs in OK. They are some of the best folks I've been
around.
>
>
> It took me a long time to realize that culturally I am somewhere between
> the white & red cultures. I might be reading too much into the Melungeon
> discussions but I bet several of the Melungeon researches are like me in
> this regard. I have also learned that this isn't a negative thing at all.
> It is a special position to be in.
>
> Do you know the history of "Collins Creek" which is just to the west of
the
> Eastern Cherokee Reservation in NC?
>
> Keep writing!
>
> Russ K.
>
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Don Collins <>
> > To: <>
> > Date: 6/8/2011 3:14:47 PM
> > Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History
> >
> > "All Indians in the U.S. were assimilated, de-cultured, re-educated,
> language taken away, religion changed, etc"
>
> Are you sure ? Of the 22 Tribes in the State I live in (New Mexico) , all
> still have their languages, Tribal ways (Religion), and Cultures intact.
> Some individuals have converted to Christianity, and speak English or
> Spanish as their first language, but the Tribes are still strong
culturally.
>
> Seems like what you are advocating is the old "One Drop Law" with a new
> spin.
>
> Don Collins
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Collins" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 12:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History
>
>
> > It is more than obvious that the only reason these communities were of
> interest was because of their Native American Indian heritage. All of the
> early Bureau of American Ethnology reports of these communities had to do
> with investigating the Native American aspect. With out it their would not
> have been enough interest in doing reports in the manner that was done.
They
> would have called them mixed African communities or bi-racially mixed
> African communities and those studies didn't start until much later. It is
> clear that these communities foundations were Native American Indian in
> origin and continued to be Native American mixed blood communities through
> out time as they are today. I don't think anyone is disputing the fact
that
> some of our families mixed with African, Asian, and European ancestry.
That
> is obvious. What is disputed is the lack of understanding that mixed blood
> Indian communities are Indian regardless of admixture, quantum, or even
> > majority cultural affiliation. All Indians in the U.S. were
assimilated,
> de-cultured, re-educated, language taken away, religion changed, etc. All
> Indians are descendants of Indians. All Indian descendants are still
covered
> under the treaties their ancestor's tribe signed long ago. No blood
quantums
> were stipulated in the past treaties. No geographic boundaries were
inserted
> to take away treaty obligation. No rules or subclauses on inter-mixtures
of
> any race with them or their future families. No mention in those treaties
of
> membership stipulation in a tribe. Those treaties covered all the people
of
> those specific tribe in perpetuity. No amount of blood quantum, no race
> admixture, no level of de-cultralization or assimilation negates those
> treaty rights or Indianess. That is the bottom line. Many of the Seminole
> and Choctaw that are federally recognized are tri-racial and many look
more
> African or White than Native American. No one is questioning their
> > right to claim their heritage. Why should it be any different for the
so
> called "Melungeons"?
> >
> > Scott P. Collins
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR
> >
> >
> >
> > Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle
> >
> >
> >
> > â?oMen and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to
oppose.�
> >
> >
> >
> > "The greater the denial the greater the awakening."
> >
> > --- On Tue, 6/7/11, K T JAMES <> wrote:
> >
> > From: K T JAMES <>
> > Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History
> > To:
> > Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 5:45 PM
> >
> >
> > "What is, is; it is your struggling against it that causes your
> suffering."
> >
> > And that is the crux of the whole thing. Some have preconceived ideas of
> what we were and consequently we "must be" that!
> >
> > Why look in the trunk in the attic when they won't believe documented
> facts already out there, Twanda?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Tue, 6/7/11, Twanda <> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Twanda <>
> > > Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History
> > > To:
> > > Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 4:05 PM
> > > Mike
> > > Good points, and thank you for posting.
> > > I agree with your thoughts. There are pods of Melungeon
> > > "looking" peoples all
> > > over this country. I have met with many of them. The
> > > mixture of "black-
> > > moor", African, Portughee, Turkish, Spanish, Northern
> > > Italian, European, and on
> > > and on and on, can lend to the color of dark skin. In
> > > Italy alone, the Northern
> > > Italians are very dark skinned, the south very light. The
> > > same with the
> > > Portughese, the Northern
> > > are very dark, the southern are light skinned.
> > > There is definitely mixed blood. I sure wish that someone
> > > could go into the
> > > attic and into the old trunks stored there and find the
> > > answers for us.
> > > Be safe
> > > Twanda
> > > "What is, is; it is your struggling against it that
> > > causes your suffering."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Mike Fields <>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 8:22:30 AM
> > > Subject: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History
> > >
> > > Here's my 2 cents on the history of Melungeon's:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If we read history, we know the Spanish did in fact explore
> > > South and North
> > > Carolina, and areas in Europe as well. So, you possibly had
> > > an already mixed
> > > group of Northern Europeans coming to this country, then
> > > mixing with INDIANS
> > > who had possibly already mixed with Spanish, Portuguese,
> > > and other
> > > Mediterranean people. Now, these Mediterranean people had
> > > mixed with people
> > > from Africa prior to coming here. So, you have Northern
> > > European people
> > > mixing with Indians in this country, which resulted in a
> > > dark race of people
> > > that looked more Mediterranean than their neighbors. To me,
> > > this makes more
> > > sense than a group of dark people coming out of thin air
> > > and pulling English
> > > names out of their hats. I think the mix of Indian and
> > > Northern European
> > > came from the areas that are documented in history, and I
> > > am a firm believer
> > > that the African mix also happened here. I think people
> > > focus too much on
> > > East Tenn. when discussing Melungeons. There is a large
> > > group of people in
> > > Eastern Kentucky even today that still look very
> > > Mediterranean. I think some
> > > of these families probably identified as Indian, some
> > > African American, some
> > > that was fair skinned pulled off being white. This is
> > > evident with my
> > > family. My point is we are a mix, and we know that. People
> > > want to strictly
> > > identify as Indian, Portuguese, etc, when it is impossible
> > > to identify as
> > > only one race. Every family is a different mix, and there
> > > are MULTIPLE
> > > families that can be called Melungeon in Eastern KY. If you
> > > research the
> > > Begley family in Leslie County KY, this family was always
> > > known as the Black
> > > Begleys. No, they are not on the Melungeon surname list,
> > > but are one of the
> > > most talked about Melungeon families in that area.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > > MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
> > >
> > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
> > >
> > > Lost Colony:
> > >
> > > http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
> > >
> > > Melungeon Website:
> > >
> > > http://www.jgoins.com/
> > >
> > > Melungeon Blogs:
> > >
> > > http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
> > >
> > > http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
> > >
> > >
> > > For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:
>
> > >
> > > -------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> > >
> > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in
> > > the subject and the body of the message
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > > MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
> > >
> > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
> > >
> > > Lost Colony:
> > >
> > > http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
> > >
> > > Melungeon Website:
> > >
> > > http://www.jgoins.com/
> > >
> > > Melungeon Blogs:
> > >
> > > http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
> > >
> > > http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
> > >
> > >
> > > For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:
>
> > >
> > > -------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>
> > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the
> > > subject and the body of the message
> > >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
> >
> > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
> >
> > Lost Colony:
> >
> > http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
> >
> > Melungeon Website:
> >
> > http://www.jgoins.com/
> >
> > Melungeon Blogs:
> >
> > http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
> >
> > http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> > For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:

> >
> > -------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
> >
> > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
> >
> > Lost Colony:
> >
> > http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
> >
> > Melungeon Website:
> >
> > http://www.jgoins.com/
> >
> > Melungeon Blogs:
> >
> > http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
> >
> > http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> > For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:

> >
> > -------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
>
> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
>
> Lost Colony:
>
> http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
>
> Melungeon Website:
>
> http://www.jgoins.com/
>
> Melungeon Blogs:
>
> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
>
> http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
>
>
> For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
>


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
>
> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
>
> Lost Colony:
>
> http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
>
> Melungeon Website:
>
> http://www.jgoins.com/
>
> Melungeon Blogs:
>
> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
>
> http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
>
>
> For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message


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