Melungeon-L Archives

Archiver > Melungeon > 2011-06 > 1307847959


From: Dennis Maggard <>
Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] Fwd: Re: Cleland
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 22:05:59 -0500
References: <BLU0-SMTP661A91027262B48DE1ABB7C6660@phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP661A91027262B48DE1ABB7C6660@phx.gbl>


Very true, Libby.

Also, in response to another post, an American with ancestral roots
going back far into the 19th century and before having E1b1a Y-DNA
suggests Sub-Saharan African ancestry a good deal more recently than
3,000 years ago. It doesn't absolutely prove it, of course, but given
the history of the US, it strongly suggests it.

As pointed out by Don and others, this is not an either/or situation.
One ancestry does not preclude another, and there is no objective reason
to value one more highly than another. Someone used the formulation:
Our Indian ancestors mixed with Europeans. It should be: Our Indian
ancestors mixed with our European Ancestors.

Dennis


On 6/11/2011 9:50 PM, Elizabeth Smiddy wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cleland,
>
> It was not Don that plastered those "teaser" posts about joining "major"
> Indian tribes to every group you are a member of a few weeks ago, it
> was you. If you did not want these questions and the attention, why
> did you post it at all? No one would have cared what kind of heritage
> you were trying to claim, nor would they have even known about it.
> You made it everyone's business yourself.
>
> Libby
>
> On 6/11/2011 9:56 PM, Cleland Thorpe wrote:
>> RootsWeb: Melungeon-L Re: [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re
>> EmailingRootsWebMelungeon-L Re (no subject)I know you don't belong to MHS
>> and Idon't understand why you are making it your business that some of us
>> claim our Native American Heritage?
>> Cleland
>>
>>
>> Melungeon-L Archives
>>
>> Archiver> Melungeon> 2011-06> 1307838986
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> From: "Don Collins"<>
>> Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re
>> EmailingRootsWebMelungeon-L Re (no subject)
>> Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 18:36:26 -0600
>> References:<>
>>
>>
>> Cleland,
>> No more threats to any one, man up and just go to the ACLU, and I'm not a
>> member of the MHS.
>>
>> Don Collins
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Cleland Thorpe"<>
>> To:<>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 6:25 PM
>> Subject: [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re Emailing
>> RootsWebMelungeon-L Re (no subject)
>>
>>
>> > RootsWeb: Melungeon-L Re: [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re
>> (no
>> > subject)Jack,
>> > Please restate the purpose of MHS and why you have done everything
>> > possible to prove we do not have any Indian Roots. ACLU might be
>> interested
>> > in this accusations.
>> > Cleland
>> >
>> >
>> > Melungeon-L Archives
>> >
>> > Archiver> Melungeon> 2011-06> 1307837284
>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ------
>> >
>> >
>> > From: "Jack Goins"<>
>> > Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re (no subject)
>> > Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 20:08:04 -0400
>> > References:
>> >
>> <><003d01cc288f$d5204d00$
>> dwy01.nm.comcast.net><
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I do believe this is Don Collins family;
>> > The future Melungeons before they left for Newman Ridge lived around the
>> > New
>> > River in Ashe Co, NC and Grayson County, Va.
>> >
>> > 1800 Ashe County NC Census
>> >
>> > Head Number of free colored in household
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Ambrose Collins 4
>> >
>> > Thomas Collins 7
>> >
>> > Vardy Collins 4
>> >
>> > Valentine Collins 6
>> >
>> > Andrew Gibson 7
>> >
>> > Archibald Gibson 7
>> >
>> > Ezekiel Gibson 3
>> >
>> > Joel Gibson 2
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From:<>
>> > To:<>
>> > Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 7:53 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re (no subject)
>> >
>> >
>> > > Don
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > You had an ancestor who might have been African 2000-3000 years ago.
>> > They
>> > > may have been part of the African DNA that went to England 1000 years
>> > ago.
>> > > DNA does not prove anything without genealogy. If you don't know who
>> > > Valentine's father was you are merely guessing you have any African
>> > > heritage.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > And who are 'some' ? I haven't seen anyone say 'everyone African'.
>> This
>> > is
>> > > about genealogy, so if a person's Y-DNA haplogroup is E1b1a, they are
>> > just
>> > > to overlook it ? And say "all are of NDN blood" as you and your ilk
>> are
>> > ?
>> > > When in fact you are a 'Bilaganna'.
>> > >
>> > > I for one, say my Collins' line is a mixed race line, NDN, African,
>> and
>> > > Caucasian. And not a soul can prove me wrong.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Joanne Pezzullo
>> > >
>> > > Historical Melungeon Indians
>> > > http://www.historical-melungeons.com/index.html
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: Don Collins<>
>> > > To: ;
>> > > Sent: Sat, Jun 11, 2011 7:32 pm
>> > > Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re (no
>> subject)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> From Littell's Living Age-No. 254-31 March, 1849. THE MELUNGENS......
>> > >
>> > > 'And you're a darned Melungen.'
>> > > 'Well, if I am, I ain't nigger-Melungen, anyhow--I'm Indian-Melungen,
>> > and
>> > > that's more 'an you is.'
>> > >
>> > > Old news, nothing new.
>> > >
>> > > "The big beef right now from some with E1b DNA who wants to make
>> > everyone
>> > > African. "
>> > >
>> > > And who are 'some' ? I haven't seen anyone say 'everyone African'.
>> This
>> > is
>> > > about genealogy, so if a person's Y-DNA haplogroup is E1b1a, they are
>> > just
>> > > to overlook it ? And say "all are of NDN blood" as you and your ilk
>> are
>> > ?
>> > > When in fact you are a 'Bilaganna'.
>> > >
>> > > I for one, say my Collins' line is a mixed race line, NDN, African,
>> and
>> > > Caucasian. And not a soul can prove me wrong.
>> > >
>> > > I'm not about to throw any of the three under the bus to prove a
>> point.
>> > >
>> > > Here is a good article on the subject by banjo historian George
>> Gibson:
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> http://www.banjohistory.com/index.cfm/article/detail/2_mellungeons_and_myth
>> > >
>> > > Read it Cleland, maybe it will learn you a thing or two.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Don Collins
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: "Cleland Thorpe"<>
>> > > To:<>
>> > > Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 4:33 PM
>> > > Subject: [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re (no subject)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> RootsWeb: Melungeon-L Re: [MELUNGEON] (no subject)For those who have
>> > not
>> > >> been to Newman Ridge or Vardy Valley, you have missed a lot about
>> those
>> > >> folks. They live in the same area their Ancestors did in the 1790's.
>> > > Their
>> > >> culture has not changed that much. When they were asked who or what
>> > they
>> > >> were, they said Indian or portugee. They were identifying with
>> "Indian"
>> > >> when it was not popular to be Indian. Everyone knows they were mixed
>> > but
>> > >> what makes the difference between them and those that are federally
>> > >> recognized who are accepted in these tribes by blood and they only
>> > >> possess
>> > >> 1/16 Indian blood? Stricks me they are also mixed.
>> > >> The big beef right now from some with E1b DNA who wants to make
>> > everyone
>> > >> African. That is really OK by me but I elect to Identify with my
>> native
>> > >> American roots. The other problems is by identifying our Ancestors as
>> > >> Indian, it kills the goose that laid the golden egg. The mystery
>> about
>> > > our
>> > >> ancestors and who they were ends the mystery and puts a lot of books
>> on
>> > >> shelves collecting dust.
>> > >> Cleland
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Melungeon-L Archives
>> > >>
>> > >> Archiver> Melungeon> 2011-06> 1307532480
>> >
>>
>>
>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>> > > ------
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> From: Mike Fields<>
>> > >> Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] (no subject)
>> > >> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 07:28:00 -0400
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> It just seems like there are people that want to focus on one group
>> of
>> > >> people and claim that is our ancestry. I agree that some of these
>> > >> people
>> > >> may
>> > >> have identified as Indian, but my point is they had mixed already
>> > >> before
>> > >> the
>> > >> Irish and Scott immigrants ever came, and the Irish and Scott was
>> > > already
>> > >> mixed when they came here. I look at being Melungeon as a really good
>> > >> thing.
>> > >>
>> > >> We are a living testament of history. People can see early world
>> travel
>> > > in
>> > >> our heritage. I know it's not always been looked at this way, but im
>> > > proud
>> > >> to be a mixture of early world explorers. These people, call them
>> what
>> > > you
>> > >> will, endured hardship that none of us today can even imagine. And
>> > >> guess
>> > >> what? They survived! They made a life for themselves right here in
>> > >> Appalachia. They farmed, hunted, and raised their families. I don't
>> > >> know
>> > >> the
>> > >> exact genetic make up of our families, but im glad they was who they
>> > > was..
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> >
>>
>>
>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>> > > ------
>> > >>
>> > >> This thread:
>> > >>
>> > >> a.. Re: [MELUNGEON] (no subject) by Mike Fields<>
>> > >>
>> > >> a.. [MELUNGEON] My Two Cents by
>> > >> a.. Re: [MELUNGEON] (no subject) by Twanda<>
>> > >> a.. Re: [MELUNGEON] (no subject) by Mike Fields<>
>> > >> a.. Re: [MELUNGEON] (no subject) by "Don Collins"<>
>> > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > >>
>> > >> MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
>> > >>
>> > >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
>> > >>
>> > >> Lost Colony:
>> > >>
>> > >> http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
>> > >>
>> > >> Melungeon Website:
>> > >>
>> > >> http://www.jgoins.com/
>> > >>
>> > >> Melungeon Blogs:
>> > >>
>> > >> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
>> > >>
>> > >> http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:
>> > >>
>> > >> -------------------------------
>> > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>> > >
>> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > >
>> > > MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
>> > >
>> > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
>> > >
>> > > Lost Colony:
>> > >
>> > > http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
>> > >
>> > > Melungeon Website:
>> > >
>> > > http://www.jgoins.com/
>> > >
>> > > Melungeon Blogs:
>> > >
>> > > http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
>> > >
>> > > http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:
>> > >
>> > > -------------------------------
>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> > >
>> > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the
>> > body
>> > > of
>> > > the message
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > >
>> > > MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
>> > >
>> > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
>> > >
>> > > Lost Colony:
>> > >
>> > > http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
>> > >
>> > > Melungeon Website:
>> > >
>> > > http://www.jgoins.com/
>> > >
>> > > Melungeon Blogs:
>> > >
>> > > http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
>> > >
>> > > http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:
>> > >
>> > > -------------------------------
>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ------
>> >
>> > This thread:
>> >
>> > a.. [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re (no subject) by
>> "Cleland
>> > Thorpe"<>
>> > a.. Re: [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re (no subject) by
>> > "Don Collins"<>
>> > a.. Re: [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re (no subject)
>> by
>> > a.. Re: [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re (no subject)
>> > by "Jack Goins"<>
>> >
>> > a.. Re: [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re (no
>> subject)
>> > by
>> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> >
>> > MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
>> >
>> > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
>> >
>> > Lost Colony:
>> >
>> > http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
>> >
>> > Melungeon Website:
>> >
>> > http://www.jgoins.com/
>> >
>> > Melungeon Blogs:
>> >
>> > http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
>> >
>> > http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
>> >
>> >
>> > For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:
>> >
>> > -------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> This thread:
>>
>> a.. [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re (no subject) by "Cleland
>> Thorpe"<>
>> a.. Re: [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re (no subject) by
>> "Don Collins"<>
>> a.. Re: [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re (no subject) by
>> a.. Re: [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re (no subject)
>> by "Jack Goins"<>
>> a.. Re: [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re (no subject)
>> by
>> a.. Re: [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re (no subject)
>> by "Don Collins"<>
>> a.. Re: [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re (no subject)
>> by
>> a.. [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re Emailing
>> RootsWebMelungeon-L Re (no subject) by "Cleland Thorpe"<>
>> a.. Re: [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re
>> EmailingRootsWebMelungeon-L Re (no subject) by "Jack Goins"<>
>> a.. Re: [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re Emailing
>> RootsWebMelungeon-L Re (no subject) by
>> a.. Re: [MELUNGEON] Emailing: RootsWeb Melungeon-L Re
>> EmailingRootsWebMelungeon-L Re (no subject) by "Don Collins"<>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
>>
>> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
>>
>> Lost Colony:
>>
>> http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
>>
>> Melungeon Website:
>>
>> http://www.jgoins.com/
>>
>> Melungeon Blogs:
>>
>> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
>>
>> http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
>>
>>
>> For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>>
>>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
>
> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
>
> Lost Colony:
>
> http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
>
> Melungeon Website:
>
> http://www.jgoins.com/
>
> Melungeon Blogs:
>
> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
>
> http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
>
>
> For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>


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