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From: Scott Collins <>
Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 22:06:55 -0700 (PDT)


http://earlytreaties.unl.edu/
 
What is your Navaho friends name?
 


Scott P. Collins
----------------------------------------------------------------------
WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR

Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle

“Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.”

"The greater the denial the greater the awakening."

--- On Mon, 6/13/11, Don Collins <> wrote:


From: Don Collins <>
Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History
To:
Date: Monday, June 13, 2011, 7:31 PM


Scott,
My lawyer  friend  has a question, were these old Treaties that were made
between the Saponi and the British Government ratified by the Government of
our Republic ? If so, do you have dates ?

Don Collins

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Collins" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History


> Exercising treaty rights isn't as simple as doing it. This is specially
true of our people because of the re-labeling and the level of poverty.
Non-recognized tribes do not get to exercise treaty rights because of the
recognition process. This is why lawyers are needed. Guaranteed, any person
from an un-recognized tribe that attempts to exercise those treaty rights
will run into legal action. This would be a perfect test on those rights and
the status of the person(s) concerned. Know any lawyers that are willing to
work for free on something like this? Most lawyers that specialize in Indian
Law will ask for retainers of 5,000 or more and be extremely costly; into
the millions. I'm not a millionaire and I don't know many in the family or
among our people that could afford such. My time has been spent researching
and attempting to educate people about these issues. Although I have thought
about several ways to exercise our treaty rights, I have also looked
>  into the logical end results. I do feel that we have more than enough
data and legal facts to win a court case if we had to. Most of our people
are too busy living their individual lives, i.e. putting food on the table;
to tempt financial disaster is not something that most will do.
>
> One example of exercising treaty rights would be to apply for eagle
feathers, however the rules stipulate Federal Recognition. Without it you
will be denied, which could be taken to the ACLU as an infringement on
Constitutional rights under freedom of religion. Even Federally Recognized
Indians sometimes have their treaty rights refused. When that happens they
have to go to court too. They have one leg up on us though because they have
access that we do not, i.e. funding.
>
> What I have done is exercise my right to self-determination. My tribe,
Saponi Nation of Ohio, has also exercised our collective right to
self-determine and have been recognized by the Ohio Historical Preservation
Office, and the House and Senate of the Ohio State legislature along with
the governor. This recognition has been limited, however, by a lack of terms
in the recognition document. Our right to identify our arts and crafts as
"Indian Made" has been put into limbo. It is part of why our tribe contacted
the Justice Department and are seeking redress. The road to recognition is a
very long and costly one. Exercising treaty rights isn't a simple act of
doing. There is a lot more involved if your tribe is still in the process.
>
>
>
> Scott P. Collins
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR
>
>
>
> Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle
>
>
>
> “Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.”
>
>
>
> "The greater the denial the greater the awakening."
>
> --- On Wed, 6/8/11, Janet Crain <> wrote:
>
> From: Janet Crain <>
> Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History
> To:
> Date: Wednesday, June 8, 2011, 10:57 PM
>
> Scott; Have you ever tried to exercise your treaty rights? If so, would
you
> share with us, the results?
>
> Janet Crain
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Collins" <>
> To: "Don Collins" <>; <>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 10:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History
>
>
> > All Native American Indians assimilated . They were forced to do so.
> > Native ways don't go away just because of assimilation and the so called
> > "melungeons" still retained some of their Native ways. In fact many of
the
> > Native ways became a part of the White colonists ways when they got
here.
> > All Native American Indians buy underwear, live in the same manner, buy
> > groceries at supermarkets, send their kids to school, watch T.V., have
> > phones; all the same as the dominant American culture. Native American
> > Indians, generally, don't live in Tipis, Wigwams, Hogans, or ride out in
> > mass hunting migrations to hunt down the buffalo. Most if not all those
> > cultural traits ended with reservations and the onslaught of American
> > expansionism. There are very few traditionalists that live in ancient
> > style housing
> > off the grid. The vast majority live like everyone else. All tribes in
the
> > U.S. have either lost their language or are on the verge of loosing it.
> > That is why there is so much infusis on language programs. Religion is a
> > matter of personal belief so all tribes have people among them that
> > believe in different religions while some retain a Native religion and
> > some are reconnecting with their ancestors religion. This is exactly
what
> > is occuring in the dominant culture as well. My family still uses the
old
> > ways on many levels and some still remember a few words of the old
> > language. There is no quantum limitation in the old treaties, not even a
> > one drop limitation. An Indian descendant that has totally assimilated
> > into Anglo or Afro American culture with no trace of "living as an
> > Indian", still has treaty rights. My families still retain some traces
of
> > their culture whether anyone outsider or they themselves recognize it or
> > not. Don I'm sure that if you ask
> > some of your relatives, I'm sure that at least one of your elders or kin
> > will remember a few "superstitions" that have stayed within the family
> > regardless of whether they are Christian or not. There are lots of small
> > cultural survivals such as this that did make it. We as Indian people,
> > mixed blood Indian people, don't have to all come off Rez to be Indian.
We
> > don't all have to know our people's language to be Indian. We don't all
> > have to believe the same religion to be Indian. We don't even have to
> > maintain any survivals of our people's culture to be Indians. The only
> > thing that makes you Indian, according to the old treaties, is lineage
and
> > even including adoption or captivity. There no stipulation in the
treaties
> > that dictates the abolishment of Indianess, or the treaties, based on
> > assimilation or loss of culture. The difference between mixed blood
Indian
> > people and other mixed blood communities is treaty obligation. The so
> > called "melungeons", two
> > or three main groups designated as with that false moniker have been
> > linked back to the Saponi and Sara/Cheraw/Lumbee tribes. The Nansemond
> > were amalgamated with the Saponi in 1713 per Executive Council Journals
of
> > Virginia. The Pee Dee River settlements encompassed many of Virginia and
> > North Carolina's interior and Coastal tribes. The BIA criterion and
> > definitions of tribes do include communities that originated in more
than
> > one tribe that came together as a unit or community.
> >
> >
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode25/usc_sec_25_00001801----000-.html
> >
> >
> >
> > TITLE 25 > CHAPTER 20 > § 1801
> >
> >
> >
> > § 1801. Definitions
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > (a)
> > For purposes of this chapter, the term—
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > (1)
> > “Indian” means a person who is a member of an Indian tribe;
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > (2)
> > “Indian tribe” means any Indian tribe, band,
> > nation, or other organized group or community, including any Alaskan
> > Native village or regional or village corporation as defined in or
> > established pursuant to the Alaskan Native Claims Settlement Act [43
> > U.S.C. 1601
> > et seq.], which is recognized as eligible for the special programs and
> > services provided by the United States to Indians because of their
> > status as Indians;
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Scott P. Collins
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR
> >
> >
> >
> > Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle
> >
> >
> >
> > “Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.”
> >
> >
> >
> > "The greater the denial the greater the awakening."
> >
> > --- On Wed, 6/8/11, Don Collins <> wrote:
> >
> > From: Don Collins <>
> > Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History
> > To:
> > Date: Wednesday, June 8, 2011, 3:11 PM
> >
> > "All Indians in the U.S. were assimilated, de-cultured, re-educated,
> > language taken away, religion changed, etc"
> >
> > Are you sure ? Of the 22 Tribes in the State I live in (New Mexico) ,
all
> > still have their languages, Tribal ways (Religion), and Cultures intact.
> > Some individuals have converted to Christianity, and speak English or
> > Spanish as their first language, but the Tribes are still strong
> > culturally.
> >
> > Seems like what you are advocating is the old "One Drop Law" with a
> > new
> > spin.
> >
> > Don Collins
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott Collins" <>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 12:17 AM
> > Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History
> >
> >
> >> It is more than obvious that the only reason these communities were of
> > interest was because of their Native American Indian heritage. All of
the
> > early Bureau of American Ethnology reports of these communities had to
do
> > with investigating the Native American aspect. With out it their would
not
> > have been enough interest in doing reports in the manner that was done.
> > They
> > would have called them mixed African communities or bi-racially mixed
> > African communities and those studies didn't start
> > until much later. It is
> > clear that these communities foundations were Native American Indian in
> > origin and continued to be Native American mixed blood communities
through
> > out time as they are today. I don't think anyone is disputing the fact
> > that
> > some of our families mixed with African, Asian, and European ancestry.
> > That
> > is obvious. What is disputed is the lack of understanding that mixed
blood
> > Indian communities are Indian regardless of admixture, quantum, or even
> >> majority cultural affiliation. All Indians in the U.S. were
assimilated,
> > de-cultured, re-educated, language taken away, religion changed, etc.
All
> > Indians are descendants of Indians. All Indian descendants are still
> > covered
> > under the treaties their ancestor's tribe signed long ago. No blood
> > quantums
> > were stipulated in the past treaties. No geographic boundaries were
> > inserted
> > to take away treaty obligation. No rules or subclauses on inter-mixtures
> > of
> > any race with them or their future families. No mention in those
treaties
> > of
> > membership stipulation in a tribe. Those treaties covered all the people
> > of
> > those specific tribe in perpetuity. No amount of blood quantum, no race
> > admixture, no level of de-cultralization or assimilation negates those
> > treaty rights or Indianess. That is the bottom line. Many of the
Seminole
> > and Choctaw that are federally recognized are tri-racial and many look
> > more
> > African or White than Native American. No one is questioning their
> >> right to claim their heritage. Why should it be any different for the
so
> > called "Melungeons"?
> >>
> >> Scott P. Collins
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> “Men and women become
> > accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.”
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "The greater the denial the greater the awakening."
> >>
> >> --- On Tue, 6/7/11, K T JAMES <> wrote:
> >>
> >> From: K T JAMES <>
> >> Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History
> >> To:
> >> Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 5:45 PM
> >>
> >>
> >> "What is, is; it is your struggling against it that causes your
> > suffering."
> >>
> >> And that is the crux of the whole thing. Some have preconceived ideas
of
> > what we were and consequently we "must be"
> > that!
> >>
> >> Why look in the trunk in the attic when they won't believe documented
> > facts already out there, Twanda?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- On Tue, 6/7/11, Twanda <> wrote:
> >>
> >> > From: Twanda <>
> >> > Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History
> >> > To:
> >> > Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 4:05 PM
> >> > Mike
> >> > Good points, and thank you for posting.
> >> > I agree with your thoughts. There are pods of Melungeon
> >> > "looking" peoples all
> >> > over this country. I have met with many of them.
> > The
> >> > mixture of "black-
> >> > moor", African, Portughee, Turkish, Spanish, Northern
> >> > Italian, European, and on
> >> > and on and on, can lend to the color of dark skin. In
> >> > Italy alone, the Northern
> >> > Italians are very dark skinned, the south very light. The
> >> > same with the
> >> > Portughese, the Northern
> >> > are very dark, the southern are light skinned.
> >> > There is definitely mixed blood. I sure wish that someone
> >> > could go into the
> >> > attic and into the old trunks stored there and find the
> >> > answers for us.
> >> > Be safe
> >> > Twanda
> >> > "What is, is; it is your struggling against it that
> >> > causes your suffering."
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ________________________________
> >> > From: Mike Fields <>
> >> > To:
> >> > Sent: Tue, June 7, 2011 8:22:30 AM
> >> > Subject: [MELUNGEON] My 2 cents on Melungeon History
> >> >
> >> > Here's my 2 cents on the history of Melungeon's:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > If we read history, we know the Spanish did in fact explore
> >> > South and North
> >> > Carolina, and areas in Europe as well. So, you possibly had
> >> > an already mixed
> >> > group of Northern Europeans coming to this country, then
> >> > mixing with INDIANS
> >> > who had possibly already mixed with Spanish, Portuguese,
> >> > and other
> >> > Mediterranean people. Now, these Mediterranean people had
> >> >
> > mixed with people
> >> > from Africa prior to coming here. So, you have Northern
> >> > European people
> >> > mixing with Indians in this country, which resulted in a
> >> > dark race of people
> >> > that looked more Mediterranean than their neighbors. To me,
> >> > this makes more
> >> > sense than a group of dark people coming out of thin air
> >> > and pulling English
> >> > names out of their hats. I think the mix of Indian and
> >> > Northern European
> >> > came from the areas that are documented in history, and I
> >> > am a firm believer
> >> > that the African mix also happened here. I think people
> >> > focus too much on
> >> > East Tenn. when discussing Melungeons. There is a large
> >> > group of people in
> >> > Eastern Kentucky even today that still look very
> >> > Mediterranean. I think some
> >> > of these families
> > probably identified as Indian, some
> >> > African American, some
> >> > that was fair skinned pulled off being white. This is
> >> > evident with my
> >> > family. My point is we are a mix, and we know that. People
> >> > want to strictly
> >> > identify as Indian, Portuguese, etc, when it is impossible
> >> > to identify as
> >> > only one race. Every family is a different mix, and there
> >> > are MULTIPLE
> >> > families that can be called Melungeon in Eastern KY. If you
> >> > research the
> >> > Begley family in Leslie County KY, this family was always
> >> > known as the Black
> >> > Begleys. No, they are not on the Melungeon surname list,
> >> > but are one of the
> >> > most talked about Melungeon families in that area.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >> >
> >> > MELUNGEON
> > Mailing List Archives:
> >> >
> >> > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
> >> >
> >> > Lost Colony:
> >> >
> >> > http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
> >> >
> >> > Melungeon Website:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.jgoins.com/
> >> >
> >> > Melungeon Blogs:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
> >> >
> >> > http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:
> >
> >> >
> >> > -------------------------------
> >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> >> >
> >> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in
> >> > the subject and the body of the message
> >> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >> >
> >> > MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
> >> >
> >> > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
> >> >
> >> > Lost Colony:
> >> >
> >> > http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
> >> >
> >> > Melungeon
> > Website:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.jgoins.com/
> >> >
> >> > Melungeon Blogs:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
> >> >
> >> > http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:
> >
> >> >
> >> > -------------------------------
> >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> >
> >> > with the word
> > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the
> >> > subject and the body of the message
> >> >
> >>
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>
> >> MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
> >>
> >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
> >>
> >> Lost Colony:
> >>
> >> http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
> >>
> >> Melungeon Website:
> >>
> >> http://www.jgoins.com/
> >>
> >> Melungeon Blogs:
> >>
> >> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
> >>
> >> http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
> >>
> >>
> >> For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:

> >>
> >> -------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>
> >> MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
> >>
> >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
> >>
> >> Lost Colony:
> >>
> >> http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
> >>
> >> Melungeon Website:
> >>
> >> http://www.jgoins.com/
> >>
> >> Melungeon Blogs:
> >>
> >> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
> >>
> >> http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
> >>
> >>
> >> For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:

> >>
> >> -------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> > with the word
> > 'unsubscribe' without the
> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
> >
> > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
> >
> > Lost Colony:
> >
> > http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
> >
> > Melungeon Website:
> >
> > http://www.jgoins.com/
> >
> > Melungeon Blogs:
> >
> > http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
> >
> > http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> > For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:

> >
> > -------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
> >
> > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
> >
> > Lost Colony:
> >
> > http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
> >
> > Melungeon Website:
> >
> > http://www.jgoins.com/
> >
> > Melungeon Blogs:
> >
> > http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
> >
> > http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> > For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:

> >
> > -------------------------------
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> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
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> >
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
>
> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
>
> Lost Colony:
>
> http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
>
> Melungeon Website:
>
> http://www.jgoins.com/
>
> Melungeon Blogs:
>
> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
>
> http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
>
>
> For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
>
> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
>
> Lost Colony:
>
> http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
>
> Melungeon Website:
>
> http://www.jgoins.com/
>
> Melungeon Blogs:
>
> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
>
> http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
>
>
> For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:

http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon

Lost Colony:

http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com

Melungeon Website:

http://www.jgoins.com/

Melungeon Blogs:

http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com

http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com


For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:

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