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From:
Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] Fw: Melungeon Indians
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 18:28:36 -0400
References: <835593DC38974FA888B576B0E01B2D52@Jack>
In-Reply-To: <835593DC38974FA888B576B0E01B2D52@Jack>


I'm sure the list I copied does not mention mulatto. Jack

1813
frame 641, "A List of free Negroes & Mulattoes with their tax annexed"


http://www.freeafricanamericans.com/henry.htm




Joanne Pezzullo

Historical Melungeon Indians
http://www.historical-melungeons.com/index.html



-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Goins <>
To:
Sent: Sat, Jun 25, 2011 5:11 pm
Subject: [MELUNGEON] Fw: Melungeon Indians


I'm sure the list I copied does not mention mulatto. Jack


'
'----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] Melungeon Indians


>
>
> Example; When we, you, Penny, my wife and I went on that research trip to
> Goinstown and to that library on the Henry/Patrick County Border I found
> and
> made a copy of the 1813-14 free Negro tax list of Henry County Virginia
> which Included my ggg Grandmother Elizabeth Going and her son John Going
> Jr.
> so the free colored and free man
> of color designation for sons John Jr., Zachariah and Zephaniah may have
> come from their mother rather than the proven Haplogroup E1b1a of John
> Going Sr. Jack
>
>
> For the record the Henry County list that Jack mentions is NOT a 'free
> Negro tax list' but is in fact 'free Negro AND MULATTO -- Indians were
> called mulatto in Virginia --
>
>
>
>
> Joanne Pezzullo
>
> Historical Melungeon Indians
> http://www.historical-melungeons.com/index.html
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jack Goins <>
> To:
> Sent: Sat, Jun 25, 2011 10:34 am
> Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] Melungeon Indians
>
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <>
>
> Writes;
>
>> Bottom line is DNA proves NOTHING. The E haplogroup only proves African
>> DNA back some 3000 years and nothing else.
>
> Joanne sometimes a little research will show how your above statement is
> really bottom line. You want everybody to assume the Male E had no Female
> E,
> The question is not the 3000 years the E1b1a haplogroup spread or when the
> Haplogroup began, but the facts are where there is a male E, there is most
> likely a female E companion.
> Example; When we, you, Penny, my wife and I went on that research trip to
> Goinstown and to that library on the Henry/Patrick County Border I found
> and
> made a copy of the 1813-14 free Negro tax list of Henry County Virginia
> which Included my ggg Grandmother Elizabeth Going and her son John Going
> Jr.
> so the free colored and free man
> of color designation for sons John Jr., Zachariah and Zephaniah may have
> come from their mother rather than the proven Haplogroup E1b1a of John
> Going Sr. Jack
>
>
>
>
>
>> Yet you yourself have represented the Melungeons as having African DNA.
>> Where is the genealogy to go with this? You want absolute proof the
>> Melungeons were Indians but accept they were African because of 3000 year
>> old DNA - which you cannot say where the DNA was for 3000 years?
>>>
>>>
>>> ? Where are freedom papers, manumissions, etc., proving any Melungeon
>>> family had African ancestors? Therefore the DNA is a big zero, alone it
>>> cannot prove anything. Look at the research by ethnologists,
>>> anthropologists, historians, etc... those records show they had Indian
>>> ancestry, specifically related to the "Craotan", "Cherokee of Robeson
>>> County" , "Lumbee" , or whatever you want to call them.
>>>
>>>
>>> If anything the DNA proves exactly what they said in 1848 -- they were
>>> Portuguese who mixed with whites and Africans AFTER they went to
>>> Tennessee. Again in 1890 it is exactly what Dromgoole wrote and a few
>>> years later it was told again by Humble.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Joanne Pezzullo
>>>
>>> Historical Melungeon Indians
>>> http://www.historical-melungeons.com/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Janet Crain <>
>>> To:
>>> Sent: Sat, Jun 25, 2011 9:26 am
>>> Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] Melungeon Indians
>>>
>>>
>>> Joanne; There is a lot of confusion muddying the waters here. You cannot
>>> say; "Melungeon descendants are showing a lot of 'Indian DNA' which is
>>> represented by several Eurpean and African haplogroups because Europeans
>>> and Africans are known to have lived with the Indians from 1520 on."
>>>
>>> This would not be accepted as a scientific conclusion by any
>>> professional.
>>> Yet it seems to be what you are saying.
>>>
>>> You could make the statement that "Melungeon descendants have been shown
>>> to
>>> be carrying several European and African haplogroups. To date very few
>>> Native American haplogroups have been found." This is a fact. And I see
>>> no
>>> way this is an injustice to anyone.
>>>
>>> No one is implying Melungeon descendants have no Indian DNA. But simply
>>> that
>>> very little of the Y and mtDNA seen so far has been Native American.
>>> You
>>> know people have a lot of ancestors other than their Y and mtDNA
>>> ancestors.
>>> Haplogroups offer information on only a tiny percentage of the total
>>> ancestry. But there's a reason for using haplogroups. When scientists
>>> speak
>>> of haplogroups as being Asian, European, African or Native American they
>>> are
>>> speaking in broad terms of where these people lived in isolation for
>>> many,
>>> many thousands of years before they began migrating and mixing together.
>>> A
>>> haplogroup takes more than 400 years to evolve.
>>>
>>> Most people in America today are a mixture of the DNA of several
>>> formerly
>>> isolated groups. So it would be very difficult to test a Melungeon
>>> descendant for their autosomal DNA and prove anything. Autosomal is the
>>> DNA
>>> from all ancestors and is mixed, shuffled and reshuffled with each
>>> transmission. But any findings from a modern day person is going to
>>> be representational of several non-Melungeon ancestors also. And no one
>>> could say which one contributed what.
>>>
>>> So you are left with the Y and mtDNA which come down virtually
>>> unchanged.
>>> The Y in a straight paternal line and mtDNA in a straight maternal line.
>>> Imperfect tools, but the best geneticists have and probably ever will
>>> have
>>> due to the previously cited reasons.
>>>
>>> Janet Crain
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 6:41 AM, <> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is not a leap to say there was absolutely contact and mixture from
>>>> as
>>>> early as 1520s with Spaniards, Portuguese, Africans, etc., with the
>>>> Native
>>>> Tribes - and that mixing resulted in 'Mixed Indians Tribes' -- meaning
>>>> those
>>>> Indian Tribes as early as the 1520s were carrying European and African
>>>> DNA.
>>>> To imply the Melungeons have no "Indian DNA" because there are no Q's
>>>> is
>>>> a
>>>> gross injustice to the Melungeon descendants.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> these people lived in isolation for many,
>> many thousands of years before they began migrating and mixing together.
>> A
>> haplogroup takes more than 400 years to evolve.
>>
>> Most people in America today are a mixture of the DNA of several formerly
>> isolated groups. So it would be very difficult to test a Melungeon
>> descendant for their autosomal DNA and prove anything. Autosomal is the
>> DNA
>> from all ancestors and is mixed, shuffled and reshuffled with each
>> transmission. But any findings from a modern day person is going to
>> be representational of several non-Melungeon ancestors also. And no one
>> could say which one contributed what.
>>
>> So you are left with the Y and mtDNA which come down virtually unchanged.
>> The Y in a straight paternal line and mtDNA in a straight maternal line.
>> Imperfect tools, but the best geneticists have and probably ever will
>> have
>> due to the previously cited reasons.
>>
>> Janet Crain
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 6:41 AM, <> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> It is not a leap to say there was absolutely contact and mixture from as
>>> early as 1520s with Spaniards, Portuguese, Africans, etc., with the
>>> Native
>>> Tribes - and that mixing resulted in 'Mixed Indians Tribes' -- meaning
>>> those
>>> Indian Tribes as early as the 1520s were carrying European and African
>>> DNA.
>>> To imply the Melungeons have no "Indian DNA" because there are no Q's
>>> is
>>> a
>>> gross injustice to the Melungeon descendants.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
>>
>> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
>>
>> Lost Colony:
>>
>> http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
>>
>> Melungeon Website:
>>
>> http://www.jgoins.com/
>>
>> Melungeon Blogs:
>>
>> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
>>
>> http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
>>
>>
>> For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
>
> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
>
> Lost Colony:
>
> http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
>
> Melungeon Website:
>
> http://www.jgoins.com/
>
> Melungeon Blogs:
>
> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
>
> http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
>
>
> For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body
> of
> the message
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:
>
> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon
>
> Lost Colony:
>
> http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com
>
> Melungeon Website:
>
> http://www.jgoins.com/
>
> Melungeon Blogs:
>
> http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com
>
> http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com
>
>
> For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MELUNGEON Mailing List Archives:

http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=melungeon

Lost Colony:

http://the-lost-colony.blogspot.com

Melungeon Website:

http://www.jgoins.com/

Melungeon Blogs:

http://www.melungeon=historical-societymhs.blogspot.com

http://www.historical-melungeons.blogspot.com


For list problems contact Administrator Janet Crain at:

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
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