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Archiver > Melungeon > 2011-06 > 1309228504


From: "Randy" <>
Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] racial origins vs. geographic origins
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 22:35:04 -0400
References: <1309059395.39650.YahooMailClassic@web111511.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><007201cc33b5$d55c39b0$8014ad10$@net><8099D864-968A-4D92-A416-AFD245F1482B@gmail.com><8CE033F8D0DEC64-9F4-655B@Webmail-m107.sysops.aol.com><012b01cc3536$35eecb90$a1cc62b0$@net><8CE034FF28D6A14-83C-2821@Webmail-d112.sysops.aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <8CE034FF28D6A14-83C-2821@Webmail-d112.sysops.aol.com>


There were some reasons those folks were ready to get the heck out of
Portugal and Spain.

Read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Inquisition

And here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Converso


==================================
What religion were the Indians? Whatever 'they' were when they got here,
they became Indians after they hooked up with them.


The legend of their history, which they carefully preserve, is this. A great
many years ago, these mountains were settled by a society of Portuguese
Adventurers, men and women--who came from the long-shore parts of Virginia,
that they might be freed from the restraints and drawbacks imposed on them
by any form of government. These people made themselves friendly with the
Indians and freed, as they were from every kind of social government, they
uprooted all conventional forms of society and lived in a delightful Utopia
of their own creation, trampling on the marriage relation, despising all
forms of religion, and subsisting upon corn (the only possible product of
the soil) and wild game of the woods.



That tells us nothing. What religion were they? What religion were their
fathers and grandfathers? Of what ethnicity were they? Did they board
those ships of their own free will? Where and for what reason did they
think they were going?





Joanne Pezzullo

Historical Melungeon Indians
http://www.historical-melungeons.com/index.html



-----Original Message-----
From: Randy <>
To:
Sent: Mon, Jun 27, 2011 9:53 pm
Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] racial origins vs. geographic origins


That tells us nothing. What religion were they? What religion were their
fathers and grandfathers? Of what ethnicity were they? Did they board
those ships of their own free will? Where and for what reason did they
think they were going?

===============================

People tend to have this idea that because someone claimed "Portuguese"
ancestry, they must be white Europeans, since Portugal is right there in
Western
Europe, next to Spain.

HOW THE PORTUGUESE WENT TO SEVILLE AND THENCE
TO SAN LUCAR; AND HOW THE CAPTAINS WERE
APPOINTED OVER THE SHIPS, AND THE MEN
WHO WERE TO GO IN THEM DISTRIBUTED.
The Portuguese left Elvas on the 15th of January. They reached Seville on
St. Sebastian's eve and went to the governor's lodging. They entered the
patio upon which looked some balconies where he was. He looked down and went
to meet them at the stairs where they went up to the balconies. When they
were up, he ordered chairs to be given them so that they might be seated.
Andre de Vasconcelos told him who he and the other Portuguese were and how
they had all come to accompany him and to serve him on his voyage. He [i.e.
Soto] thanked him and appeared well pleased with their coming and proffer.
The table being already laid, he invited them to eat; and while they were
eating, he directed his majordomo to find lodgings for them near his inn.
>From Seville, the adelantado went to San Liicar with all the men that were
to go with him. He ordered a muster to be held, to which the Portuguese went
armed with very splendid arms, and the Castilians very elegantly, in silk
over silk, and ma!
ny plaits and slashes. As such finery was not pleasing to the governor on
such an occasion, he ordered a muster to be held on the next day and for
every man to appear with his armor.
To this the Portuguese came as at first, armed with very excellent armor,
and the governor set them in order near the standard borne by his alferez.
Most of the Castilians wore poor and rusty coats of mail, and all [wore]
helmets and carried worthless and poor lances. Some of them managed to get a
place among the Portuguese. Thus they passed in review, and those who were
to the liking of Soto and whom he wished were counted and enrolled and went
with him to Florida. Those who went numbered in all six hundred men. He had
already bought seven ships and had placed in them the provisions necessary,
appointed captains, and assigned his ship to each captain, giving each one a
list of the men he was to take.



http://historical-melungeons.com/beginning.html


Joanne Pezzullo

Historical Melungeon Indians
http://www.historical-melungeons.com/index.html



-----Original Message-----
From: Trevor Bauknight <>
To:
Sent: Mon, Jun 27, 2011 3:05 pm
Subject: Re: [MELUNGEON] racial origins vs. geographic origins


People tend to have this idea that because someone claimed "Portuguese"
ancestry, they must be white Europeans, since Portugal is right there in
Western
Europe, next to Spain. The history of that country, and the one next to it,
however, is a convoluted one, and on the day after Columbus' departure for
the
New World in 1492, Spain issued an edict of expulsion, compelling the
Sephardic
Jews in that country to convert or leave. Jewish families that had been in
Spain
and Portugal for centuries fled to northern Europe, particularly Holland and

Scotland, and eventually to the New World. Nowadays, "race" is such an
important
cultural construct that much of our petty bigotries and so on are related to
it.
That was not always the case. In the 17th and 18th Centuries, religion was
the
driving force behind much of human migration and conflict, and one can view
history through that lens easily enough to determine that the settlement of
the
New World was, along with a business propositi!
on for some very wealthy individuals, a response to Catholic persecution of

non-Catholics throughout Europe. Most of the early immigrants to America
were
fleeing Catholic domination, Inquisition and so on and readily cast their
lot
with each other against the common enemy. Protestants of all stripe, Jews
and
Muslims (Moors) came to the New World in droves and readily took up with
each
other, skin color and ethnicity proving not nearly so formidable a barrier
as
those factors would later form.

Answering the question "What religion were the Melungeons, and how did they
get
that way?" would go a lot further toward solving the riddle than a hundred
years
of bickering over ethnicity. It didn't matter nearly as much then as it does

now. In the 19th and 20th Centuries, sure, it was an ugly history, but
before
that, when the pioneers were hacking out a living in the Holston and Clinch
Valleys, an African Indian would have been much more a friend to the nominal

Quaker Daniel Boone while the English were shooting at him.

Trevor


On Jun 26, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Randy wrote:

> That's my point. Just as describing Katy as an American gives no clue as
to
> her race, describing Lewis Collins as Portuguese gives no clue as to his
> race.
>
> =====================================
>
> Randy, People don't identify themselves by "race," let alone by haplotype,
> but also nations, culture, geographical areas, neighborhoods and families.
> If you ask a Causasian person what they are, they'll tell you Spanish,
> Scottish, Norwegian. An Oriental person could be Korean, Chinese or Thai.
> Racially I am more than one race with ancestors from more than one nation
> and culturally I am an American. America, like most other nations, has
more
> than one race of people.
> Katy
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