NCBERTIE-L Archives

Archiver > NCBERTIE > 1998-09 > 0904646108


From: "Livingston" <>
Subject: Fw: Fw: Cashie
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:35:08 +0100


Harry,
This is Marilyn Dreamwalker Mejorado-Livingston Councilwoman Southern Band
Tuscarora Indian Tribe. I just received the email you sent to Emory and Pam
Thomas members of the Southern Band Tuscarora.
You are way out of line here, you may be an excellent historian when it
comes to his-story, but you don't know much when it comes to our stories,
so stop slamming our oracles and our story, which is our history, just
because you don't have the whitemans written word confirming our oracles
doesn't mean they are fictional, or made up fantasies. If all the Hoggards,
Bakers, Cales, And Castelaws/Barneycastles have the same story handed down
through different lines then they are based on the truth....
How are you so sure there wasn't a Chief Cashie? I have the deeds where a
Chief Casie signed away part of Indian Woods Reservation. If you have
studied genealogy you would know all our names are spelled several
different ways, and some as in mine was even ripped apart, And you would
know that most census takers were no more educated than the general public
and wrote names as they sounded...And never wrote anyone was Native
American, this is the genocide of the Europeans after they invaded our land
and killed or assimilated our people into submission...
William Rhodes was a good writer, your insinuation that all of his
writtings are merely science fiction rubs me the wrong way, he was closer
to the actual events that you were, considering he wrote them in 1857, that
was 141 years ago, I am more apt to believe his stories than your "facts"
141 years later, stories change immensely with time and according to the
writer.....
So for future reference don't try to rewrite or lessen our oracles, too
many white"historians" have tried to make people think we were extinct, we
aren't, so stay where you belong...And if you truly want to know our
history, the Native American truths, ask us, and listen with an open mind
and you may be suprised at what we know....
Sincerely
Dreamwalker
----------
> From: Michael Baker <>
> To:
> Subject: Fwd: Fw: Cashie
> Date: Monday, August 24, 1998 8:51 PM
>
>
>
> >From: "Neil Baker" <>
> >To: "Pam Baker" <>,
> > "Carl Castellow" <>,
> > "Dennis Phelps" <>,
> > "Sarah Rebecca Ware" <>,
> > "Jeff Menz" <>,
> > "Ledru Shoopman Baker" <>,
> > "Michael Vance Baker" <>,
> > "Mrs. Grace M Newey" <>,
> > "Norman Cale" <>,
> > "Peter Williams" <>,
> > "Barry Baker" <>,
> > "Hersey Williams" <>
> >Subject: Fw: Cashie
> >Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:02:52 -0500
> >
> >
> >
> >----------
> >> From: Neil Baker <>
> >> To: Emory & Pam Thomas <>
> >> Subject: Re: Cashie
> >> Date: Saturday, August 22, 1998 5:16 PM
> >>
> >> Thank you very much for sharing this info Emory. I visited Bertha
> Hoggard
> >> Brown last Saturday near Windsor. She is 96 years old, she is an
> honest
> >> Christian, her mind is sharp. Her grandfather was Joseph Etherton
> >Hoggard,
> >> her grandmother was Penelope Cale Hoggard. She lived behind Ross
> Church
> >and
> >> also behind her grandmother Penelope. She told me that she spent
> allot of
> >> time with her grandmother growing up. She was 18 when Penelope Cale
> >Hoggard
> >> died. I ask her if her grandmother had ever mentioned any Indian
> Blood,
> >her
> >> response was that on one occasion that she remembered very vividly
> that
> >her
> >> (Bertha) and her Dad (John Norflleet Hoggard) and grandmother
> Penelope
> >Cale
> >> were talking about how high her fathers (John's) cheekbones were.
> >> Bertha said that her grandmother Penelope said it came from the
> Indian
> >line
> >> .. Bertha said that she personally did not know where the Indian came
> >from.
> >> She had never heard of Chief Cucklemaker, but had never asked.
> >> Gerald Thomas and I have been working on this for sometime, and I
> know
> >that
> >> he does not believe it. I was unsure even though my Mother Sybil
> Hoggard
> >> had always told me that we came from Indians. After talking to Bertha
> and
> >> also Stanley Hoggard from the Ross community, I must say I do believe
> >there
> >> is truth to this story. As you know my mother Sybil Hoggard and my
> father
> >> Ledrew Baker were distant kin through the Cale line. William Henry
> Baker
> >> married Penelope Cale's sisters Martha Cale and after she died he
> married
> >> Sallie (Sarah) Cale. On this Indian, who knows it could possibly be
> from
> >> Charney Cales wifes line? I just don't know at this time, but I am
> >conviced
> >> there is some Indian in our past.
> >> Your thoughts?
> >> Cheer's Neil
> >> ----------
> >> > From: Emory & Pam Thomas <>
> >> > To:
> >> > Subject: Cashie
> >> > Date: Saturday, August 22, 1998 3:22 PM
> >> >
> >> > Neil,
> >> > Received this today and thought you might be interested. Emory
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Sat, 22 Aug 1998 08:03:16 -0400
> >> > >From: Harry Thompson <>
> >> > >Reply-To:
> >> > >Organization: Historical Society of Washington County
> >> > >X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I)
> >> > >To:
> >> > >Subject: Cashie
> >> > >
> >> > >Hi Emory:
> >> > >
> >> > >In scanning some of my messages, I saw that you mentioned Chief
> >Cashie.
> >> > >This version of the Cale history has recently been altered in
> error.
> >> > >Christine Cale Johnson and I had a big discussion about it the
> night
> >of
> >> > >August 19th.
> >> > >
> >> > >There never was a Chief Cashie, nor a Chief Roanoke. They were
> >figments
> >> > >of the imagination of the writer William H. Rhodes in the years
> >between
> >> > >1837 and 1857. Rhodes was potentially the greatest science
> fiction
> >> > >writer of his era, and had he not died young, he would have passed
> >Jules
> >> > >Verne. He was born in Windsor, his father was ambassador to the
> >> > >Republic of Texas, and the family went out west. WH became an
> >attourney
> >> > >in California. These Indian names came from his story termed the
> >Indian
> >> > >Gallows Tree.
> >> > >
> >> > >Cucklemaker married the French lady, took her father's name (John
> >Kale')
> >> > >and is traced no further back at this time to the fictional story
> of
> >the
> >> > >hanging on the gallows tree. Someone has taken a gross liberty in
> >> > >combining a verified story of Cucklemaker with a work of fiction.
> >> > >
> >> > >All of the related families.. Hoggards, Bakers, Cales,
> Castellaws,and
> >> > >just about all the families of that region have identically the
> same
> >> > >story. Verbal history is considered to be 96% accurate.
> >> > >
> >> > >Let's don't let the tradition of Cucklemaker die ! But Cashie who
> >> > >killed his son Roanoke, certainly was not Cucklemaker's father.
> That
> >> > >would stretch the father -son relationship over 150 years.
> Impossible
> >!
> >> > >
> >> > >Thanks, Harry
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > THOMAS CALE SALMONS MILLER DOYLE FOGLE LONG DAVIS
> >> > PRICE VANHOY SHOOK HAGARMAN
> >> >
> >> > ()
> >> > Emory & Pam Thomas
> >
>
>
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