NJGLOUCE-L Archives

Archiver > NJGLOUCE > 2005-06 > 1118097588


From: "Valerie N.Caulfield" <>
Subject: Re: [NJGLOUCE] ? about Land grants from William Penn
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:39:48 -0400
References: <12c.5f4b9bf5.2fd61830@aol.com> <BAY103-DAV1003E7953033235FCC9508C6FB0@phx.gbl>


Hi all,
Maybe I can add a bit of information as per Penn's land holding in NJ. It appears to me he too was a Proprietor in the West Jersey Society, though many people don't think of him on this side of the river, when in fact he both bought and sold extensive lands in southern (then West) NJ.

Also, with the deal worked out with Fenwick, Penn ended up with the unsold lands of western Salem Tenth, and his heirs can be found selling off parcels for some years after old Wm. Penn died. Hence the name change from the precinct of "West Fenwick" to Penns Neck, later divided into Upper and Lower Pennsneck. Today that area includes nearly all the river frontage between Oldmans Creek on the border of Gloucester county, down to Salem Creek before you pass into Salem to the south.

There's another Penns Neck up in Mercer county, (probably Maiden Head Twp in the old records) so there's another place I'd look if I wanted to find something with his name on it.

In addition, in order to get the lands to build on the site he foresaw for Philadelphia, Penn offered the previous owners - mainly Swedes and Finns and a few Dutch who were here under previous grants, a 2 for 1 deal. In other words, an exchange for their lands along the Delaware River on the land he wanted, for double that amount in other of his vast holdings in either PA or NJ. Dr. Peter S. Craig's book, The 1693 Census of the Swedes, was the first place I saw this clearly explained.

I have seen a few references in deeds, warrants or quitrents in Penns name in the earliest period on this side of the river, and many more a bit later, by attorneys for his heirs. See Thomas Shourd's History and Genealogy of Fenwick's Colony, NJ Archives Series for some of the early references, but then the NJ Archives volumes land abstracts, but also some of the other books that relate to Colonial Documents.

Penn's Heirs finally sold out to their cousins the Harris's btw, and according to some, the Penn boys were none too favored by the locals after their father died. I believe that original deed can be seen in the Gloucester County Historical Society, even though it transferred considerable lands in Salem county.

I have read that some of the exchanges, for the Philadelphia lands, may be recorded in PA, but I have yet to track down where or how. They were obsessively good record keepers in PA, as compared to what went on over here, and you can find plat maps for nearly all the PA land sales. But I have yet to see anything personally for the 2 for 1 land deals...and they may have been termed "grants" in part, though I won't know unless I can find some.

Besides the local courthouse, check the various Historical Societies in either state, which may also have recorded or UNRECORDED deeds. I emphasize the latter, for not all secondary sales were recorded, apparently to avoid the "quit rents". That was an archaic system dating from feudal times, in which the "Lords of the Manor" or in this case, Proprietors, were owed taxes on the lands in perpetuity. Later buyers and sellers might not want to give the Proprietors any record and hence avoid the rent.

Not sure if I've helped clear this up, or muddled the waters with too much information, but wish you luck in your searching.

Val


----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [NJGLOUCE] ? about Land grants from William Penn


I have never heard of any grant in NJ.

Gene Stackhouse, Germantown
"In Heaven there is no Beer, that's why we drink it here", old polka.


----- Original Message -----
Wrom: XOEAIJJPHSCRTNHGSWZI
To: <>; <>
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [NJGLOUCE] ? about Land grants from William Penn


>
> In a message dated 6/6/2005 5:15:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> writes:
>
> William Penn did not grant anyone land. He sold the land. The original
> deed
> is called a patent.
>
>
>
> Gene-
>
> That is kind of why I questioned the original post--I never heard of
> William
> Penn land grants in West Jersey...only in Pennsylvania. In PA you always
> see the warrants followed by the patents and then subsequent deeds--but
> I've
> never seen that in West Jersey--always proprietor sales as the original
> land
> records followed by transfers by deed.
>
> Do you know of New Jersey land grants by William Penn?
>
> Joan
>


This thread: