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Archiver > NY-IRISH > 2006-10 > 1161270058


From:
Subject: Re: [NY-IRISH] Black Irish, American Indian,and Protestant in Colonial America
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:00:58 -0400
References: <008201c6f300$ba4f8140$6c8e7045@YOURC0160E269F>
In-Reply-To: <008201c6f300$ba4f8140$6c8e7045@YOURC0160E269F>


I loved your very extensive information.

Years ago my grandfather told me 'Black Irish' were descendents of the
Spanish Armada that wrecked off the coast of Ireland in Elizabeth I's
time. They were called 'Black' because of their dark hair and less
than pale skin. So, until I read your email, that's what I thought Black
Irish meant.

Is there any chance this is also correct?

Thanks,
PJ O'Riley

Quoting :

> Hi Linda,
>
> Your family background is very interesting, especially with the connections
> to all of Black Irish, Irish Protestants, and American Indians in Colonial
> America. To answer the first part, there are 2 kinds of Black Irish:
>
> 1. the tall Irish with black hair, pure white skin, big bones, green/blue
> eyes. (Although there are variations on this, of course.) But think of the
> typical Kerryman. These are known in Irish genealogy as the Fir Bolg, or
> Bolgii, who are a branch of the Belgii who fought Caesar, and left their
> name on Belgium. But a Belge and Kerryman up next to each other and you
> can't tell the difference until they open their mouths. Bolgii / Belgii
> originally called attention to their claimed descent from the god Bolg /
> 'Thunder'. Christian euhemerists translated Fir Bolg as 'People of the Bag'
> and made up a silly story about the origin and translation of the name.
> Naturally, they didn't want people walking around claiming descent from a
> pagan god in Christian Ireland.
>
> 2. the Irish who were sold into slavery (not indentured servitude) in the
> West Indies in the 17th century and who mixed with the African slaves there.
> You've probably noticed the wide dispersion of Irish surnames all over the
> Caribbean. Barbados and Jamaica (Port Royal) were the main ports / slave
> markets for Irish slaves. As a result, significant parts of the Caribbean
> were Irish-speaking well into the 19th century. Significant parts of
> Montserrat were Irish-speaking into the 1930s. About 15 years ago, a little
> black girl came up to a friend of mine (an Irish teacher) here in New York
> and recited 17th century Irish poetry to her. The little girl was from
> Montserrat and the poetry was taught to her by her grandmother.
>
> Your Irish ancestors may be in America since before the Mayflower (1619) if
> you came through Virginia (1607). The Virginia Colony (Jamestown, etc.) was
> full of Irish, Welsh, and Scots. So much so that the English called it a
> 'Tower of Babel' and blamed the lack of communication as one reason for the
> colony's impending failure. We don't hear about that in our history
> textbooks nor in the movies (although I liked "The New World" with Colin
> Farrell), but all documented and easily checked. Reading the census of 1622
> / 1623 is a hoot. The census-taker apparently spoke pretty good Welsh and
> so was good at the Welsh names (Ap Gruffyd, etc.), but couldn't work out the
> Irish names at all. One Irishman is listed as Thomas Oge, which is
> obviously Tomás Óg or 'Young Tomás' as opposed to his father who would have
> been Sean-Tomás or 'Old Tomás.'
>
> Also, and I'm not anything like the first person to have noticed this (it's
> very much accepted amongst American colonial historians), the English in the
> 17th century made it a religious virtue (and I'm being literal here) not to
> intermarry with the 'Philistines' (American Indians, Africans, etc.) outside
> 'God's City On The Hill' (Boston, etc.) and they associated such
> 'Philistines' with devil-worship, loss of Christianity, Fall Of Man, Sin
> with a capital S for Sex, etc. The Irish and French had no such problem.
> Latin voluptuousness, as the English would say. The result is that some
> of the most important American Indian leaders who fought the English in the
> 17th and 18th centuries were half-Irish, like Cornplanter, also known as Jan
> Abeel in Dutch or John O'Bail in English or obviously Seán Ó Baoighill (of
> the O'Boyles of Co. Donegal) in Irish. Don't believe anybody who says
> Cornplanter's father was Dutch. He was an Irish exile amongst the Dutch and
> Seneca up around Fort Orange (Albany) of what had been New Netherlands (New
> York). I've met one of his cousins, by the way, a nuclear scientist
> learning Irish at the Gerry Tobin Irish Language School on Long Island, and
> he says they're Irish, not Dutch.
>
> Lastly, it was against the law to be Catholic in America until America won
> the American Revolution. Confiscations, nose slittings, ear loppings, and
> on second offense, banishment in winter (meant to be a death sentence) were
> the typical penalties, although hanging, drawing, and quartering was used in
> 1698 or so in Manhattan. New York had a brief period of tolerance under
> James II (1685-1689). Even Maryland's citizens lost the right to be
> Catholic in 1689. Our good friends the Quakers (Beannacht Dé orthu / God
> bless them) protected the Catholics in Philadelphia against English law and
> gave them a chapel from about 1715 on, to which all the Catholics of British
> America made their Easter Pilgrimage once a year if they were rich enough to
> afford it. All the rest had to go Protestant if they were to have religion
> at all. Some went Protestant by conscience, some by necessity, and fair
> play to them all as the Irish would say. But some stayed secretly Catholic,
> like the Catholics of Trinity Church in Manhattan (an Anglican church), who
> founded the first Catholic parish (St. Peter's & Paul's) in what had been
> British America a few blocks away in 1785. In other words, when it was
> apparent that the English had been kicked out for good.
>
> Hope that's helpful. Le gach dea-ghuí, - Jerry
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [mailto:]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 4:52 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [NY-IRISH] The Color Orange
>
> Hello Jerry,
> Very interesting comment about the Orange. Now please forgive me but my
> Irish Descent Grandmother told me that she was Black Irish. We're from
> Louisiana, Protestant and her family has been in America since the
> Mayflower. Forgive me if it's dumb question but I'm American since the boat.
> There was some talk about having Native American roots also and I thought
> this could be related to that separate problem Thanks Linda
>
>
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