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Archiver > NY-TROY-IRISH-GENSOC > 2011-02 > 1296758751


From: "Jeffrey Gaul" <>
Subject: Re: [NY-TROY-IRISH-GENSOC] Forced migration from Tipperary
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 13:45:51 -0500
References: <7A1181D9-DE03-410B-BA65-3DB6C7D2B38D@jetbroadband.com><8CD91E652FDAB7A-DB8-F486@web-mmc-m08.sysops.aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <8CD91E652FDAB7A-DB8-F486@web-mmc-m08.sysops.aol.com>


My Mary O'Brien-O'Brien and James O'Brien married on 3/9/1867 in Tramore,
County Waterford and possibly later moved to County Cork.
I hope they have ties in this book, but will not hold my breath.
Jeff Gaul

-----Original Message-----
From: Mary Lee Dunn
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 1:21 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [NY-TROY-IRISH-GENSOC] Forced migration from Tipperary

Hi, Marianne and All,

I too got the book and have read it and had intended to post the
surnames of the people named. But I have so much on my plate right now
that I'm not sure when I could have gotten to it. So I will stand back
and thank you for doing this, Marianne.

Two points:

first, that there is no list of the full names of the evicted does not
mean one doesn't exist. It's possible that Parliamentary papers might
contain such a list; there is a mention in the book somewhere that the
case was discussed by some Parliamentary entity;

second, Toomevara also was only a very few miles from Moneygall in
County Offaly, which is the home place of President Obama's Irish
ancestors.

Mary Lee


-----Original Message-----
From: Marianne Arnold <>
To:
Sent: Thu, Feb 3, 2011 12:05 pm
Subject: Re: [NY-TROY-IRISH-GENSOC] Forced migration from Tipperary


Ok guys, I have received and read the book on the Toomevara,
clearances. (There is also an alternate spelling Toomevera, both can
be googled and there is some difference.) No, I am not a speed reader,
it's only 64 pages, but the print is small.

There is no index of names, in fact there is no index at all, but
there is a long bibliography. There are, however, many names in the
account. What I propose to do in the next week or so, as I have the
time, is give an overview and then go page by page with the names and
the circumstances surrounding them - much of it really grim.

The young woman who wrote the book is herself a native of Toomevara
and I think she did an admirable job of telling the story without
showing much bias - not sure I could be so even-handed myself. Her
name is Helen O'Brien and there are many O'Briens in the account. She
is a primary school teacher, but holds an honors business degree and
an MA in local history. She used a wide variety of government records,
the National Archives and the National Library, as well as personal
records and memoirs. One in particular, those of Thomas Treacy, who
was a young lad during the clearance and recorded his memories in
1906, is especially affecting.

The present Roman Catholic Parish of Toomevara is in North Tipperary,
in the barony of Upper Ormond. It consists of 25,349 acres. It
includes former civil parishes of Aghnameadle, Ballymacky, Kilkeary,
Templedowney, and part of Latteragh. Some of the other places
mentioned are Nenagh, Templederry, Drominch, and Clonmore, among
others. The book covers the period 1845-1851, which is generally
considered the length of the famine.

One of the points she made at least twice, and which I had not
considered, was that the people who emigrated were not the poorest
people. They were, for the most part, the million who died. The
million who emigrated, except for those few whose landlords paid their
passage, had to have enough assets to sell or trade for the money for
their fare. This is not to say that they were well-off, just not at
the bottom of the food chain. And of course many families came in
stages. I have a tailor in Wexford, whose sons, hatters and
cordwainers, came first, then the tailor and lastly the two daughters,
one of whom is my great-grandmother. They all sent money back to help
those still there. We have no record of the tailor's wife and believe
she died before they left.

The de-population of the area that took place is startling. The
population of Toomevara in 1841 was 8,706. In 1851 it was 4,992, or a
drop of over 42 percent. Kilkeary was the highest at 55 percent and
Ballymackey was somewhat lower at 38 percent. The number of Catholic
baptisms in 1845 was 350, in 1855 it was 81.

Many people have said that Ireland was over-populated before the
famine, considering the agricultural practices and the methods of
distribution. This may be partly true, but huge amounts of food were
shipped out of Ireland in the worst of the famine and many people
continued to live in reasonable conditions throughout the famine. It
is their cold-hearted refusal to provide the necessary relief to their
destitute neighbors that is so appalling.

That's enough intro - I'll start the pages in the next couple days.
Marianne Arnold








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===NY-IRISH-GENSOC Mailing List===
Time for Society Members to pay up their 2011 Dues. See the Website for
details:
Troy Irish Genealogy Society
www.rootsweb.com/~nytigs/
Click ON - "JOIN TIGS NOW!" to get form.





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