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Archiver > NYC-ROOTS > 2003-10 > 1065631431


From: Brett_Lieberman <>
Subject: Re: [NYC] Bureaucrat rules...& bending them
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:43:51 -0700
References: <10d.2ac0cb3f.2cb50c3e@aol.com>


Heres a case:

How does one prove they are realted "when there father is adopted" and you
have a diffrent last name then the one on the Certificate? I know you can
list yourself as say" Grandson" will that be enough now after 911??

I guess a letter from a Notary will be enough?


Brett Lieberman
Vancouver Canada


----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 11:44 PM
Subject: [NYC] Bureaucrat rules...& bending them


> Hi David & all,
>
> Were you speaking of NEW JERSEY records?
>
> Karen, I got two death certs of my great aunt & uncle a couple of years
back
> from New Jersey. Since they died in Jersey City, I wrote to the Jersey
City
> City Clerk. Whenever possible, I request from the lowest level of
government.
> Why? Those folks are not always informed about State restrictions. I
always
> request my snail mail, include SASE, cover letter stating they had no
children
> so I am next of kin or asking for medical reasons [I do not claim
genealogy],
> and copy of my license. Alonmg the way, I have also included copies of
other
> info pertaining to my request to give the impression, I am in fact
related.
>
> Also, I was able to get the birth [NYC, not archival yet] and NJ death for
my
> aunt/godmother who was childless, by providing a copy of my Baptismal
> certificate, with her name on it.
>
> Do you know the city where this man died? Perhaps you can find the local
> library for an obit search and get the parents names from there.
Queensborough
> Library just sent me 4 obits I requested.
>
> These places worry about ID Theft? First of all, I doubt you could pass
for
> a man who is 39 years older than you!!! Secondly, having worked for a
small
> municipality,
> I highly doubt their employees are bonded, fingerprinted, and sworn to
> respect privacy. It is usually some minimum wage clerk who makes such
copies; do
> they steal our identity information, with all we are required to provide?
>
> If I were a Mormon, I would state that I was seeking these records for
> religious reasons and include a letter from my minister stating this.
This would
> put the NJ government on the spot about religious prejudice, especially
since
> the Latter Day Saints foster genealogical research as part of their
religious
> observance.
>
> I think Charles Sullivan suggested a while back re: NYC Vital Records to
> avoid saying the purpose is genealogical.
>
> Hope this gives some folks some ideas.
> Barbara
>
>
>
> > Subj:Re: [NYC] Bureaucrat rules
> > Date:10/7/2003 11:40:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time
> > From:<A
HREF="mailto:"></A
>
> > To:<A
HREF="mailto:"></A>
> > Sent from the Internet
> >
> >
> >
> > My wife and I had ordered her Grandfather's Death Certificate On or
before
> > the April date listed below. We also ordered his Brother's and Sister
in
> > Laws at the same time. We received all 3 Death Certificate's with No
> > problem. We had the names of the parents at that time but just wanted
the
> > certificate's. I forget the Reason we used but they did not give us a
> > problem. We were asked to state the Relationship and we provided all the
> > needed information that the Cemetery had given us.
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Donald Lutz" <>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 9:06 PM
> > Subject: Re: [NYC] Bureaucrat rules
> >
> >
> > > I can understand the fustration of researchers of New Jersey recoprds.
My
> > > grandmother's name appears three difference ways in the records. My
> > wife's
> > > grandmother has two different last names in the records and I'm not
even
> > > going to tell you how many different ways the name Koehmstedt has been
> > > spelled in the New Jersey records.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Karen Wofford" <>
> > > To: <>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 8:37 PM
> > > Subject: [NYC] Bureaucrat rules
> > >
> > >
> > > > now, if I knew my great uncle's mother's maiden name, or his
father's
> > > first
> > > > name, why would I send in for a copy of his death certificate! I
> > realize
> > > > that rules have to be enacted for protection against identity theft,
but
> > > > this is ridiculous!
> > > > I'm sure glad I started doing genealogy back in the 1970's. IF I had
> > > started
> > > > now, it would of been impossible to gather my family information..
karen
> > > > Read below:
> > > >
> > > > My comment: New Jersey is one big pain in the rump to deal with!..
read
> > > > below..
> > > > I will not post my reply..It almost made me lose my religion.<GG>
> > > > Karen
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 9:47 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re:death certificate of your great uncle
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Dear Ms. Wofford:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is in response to your email regarding the death
> > > certificate
> > > > of
> > > > > > your great uncle. Please be advised that my office does not
release
> > > any
> > > > > > vital record information via, phone, fax or email. The only way
to
> > > > > receive
> > > > > > information contained on a vital record is to apply for the
record
> > and
> > > > > > purchase a copy of the record.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your request for a vital record was returned as you did
not
> > > > supplied
> > > > > > complete information for a search of our records to be
completed.
> > > > > Although
> > > > > > you indicate the reason for obtaining the copy is for
genealogical
> > > > > reasons,
> > > > > > it is the age of the document not its intended purpose that
> > determines
> > > > if
> > > > > > it is considered a genealogical record.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Death certificates are considered to be genealogical recor
ds
> > > with
> > > > > > relaxed data requirements forty years after the event occurred.
You
> > > > > > indicate in your email that the death occurred in 1979 which
would
> > not
> > > > > > classify this document as a genealogical record. Therefore you
must
> > > > > comply
> > > > > > with the following requirements to request copies of vital
records.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) The exact name that is currently recorded on the vital
record
> > > > > > 2) The exact place of event (city)
> > > > > > 3) The exact date of the event (month, day and year)
> > > > > > 4) The full maiden name of the mother of the individual
listed on
> > > the
> > > > > > record
> > > > > > 5) The full name of the father of the individual listed on
the
> > > > record,
> > > > > > if recorded
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You must state your relationship to the individual(s)
named on
> > > the
> > > > > > vital record and also forward a copy of your photo driver's
license
> > or
> > > > > phot
> > > > > > nondriver's license with your address or two alternate forms of
> > > > > > identification showing your name and address. Acceptable types
of
> > > > > > alternate identification are:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Non-photo Driver's License, Vehicle Registration,
insurance
> > > card,
> > > > > > Voter Registration Card, Passport, Green Card, County ID,
> > School
> > > > ID,
> > > > > > Utility Bill.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Governor's Executive Order #18, effective April 24, 2002,
> > > > stipulates
> > > > > > who may obtain a certified copy of a vital record event. It
> > > > specifically
> > > > > > states "A State or local Registrar may issue a certified copy of
a
> > > vital
> > > > > > record only to persons who establish themselves as the subject
of
> > the
> > > > > vital
> > > > > > record, the subject's parent, legal guardian or legal
> > representative,
> > > > > > spouse, child, grandchild or sibling, if of legal age, to a
State or
> > > > > > Federal agency for official purposes, pursuant to a court
order?.
> > All
> > > > > other
> > > > > > requestors will receive a Certification that states the document
is
> > > > > > provided for informational purposes only and can not be utilized
for
> > > > > > identification or legal purposes."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you are able to provide the information required
please
> > > > resubmit
> > > > > > your request to the Customer Service Unit Supervisor at PO Box
370,
> > > > > Trenton
> > > > > > NJ 08625 with your identification and the fee of $4.00. A search
of
> > > the
> > > > > > record will be performed and a certification will be issued
based on
> > > the
> > > > > > above guidelines.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you for your cooperation in this matter, if you have
any
> > > > > > further questions regarding, please contact the Customer Service
> > Unit
> > > at
> > > > > > (609) 292-4087 extension 582.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joseph A. Komosinski
> > > > > > State Registrar
> > > > > > Vital Statistics & Registration
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in this
message
> > is
> > > > > > privileged and confidential information intended only for the
use of
> > > the
> > > > > > individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message
is
> > > not
> > > > > the
> > > > > > intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to
deliver
> > it
> > > > to
> > > > > > the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
release,
> > > > > > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is
> > > > strictly
> > > > > > prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
> > please
> > > > > > notify the author immediately by replying to this message and
delete
> > > the
> > > > > > original message. Thank you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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