Archiver > NYSARATO > 2008-08 > 1218906374

From: "Leslie B. Potter" <>
Subject: Re: [NYSARATO] Records Ft. Miller, Ft. Edward area-pre-Rev
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:06:14 -0400
References: <00fc01c8fe45$e224a4f0$11ff9643@computername><48A513E8.30909@comcast.net> <48A6B18C.9040806@comcast.net><000501c8ffb4$c0617df0$0201a8c0@Nancy>
In-Reply-To: <000501c8ffb4$c0617df0$0201a8c0@Nancy>


No one in New York State "owned" their land until 1841. The Province of
New York had a FEUDAL land holding system. This feudal land holding
system is one reason why the Province of New York was not settled at a
greater density earlier in its history. Although New England was
bursting at the seams and the soil was worn out, no self respecting New
Englander wanted to leave New England, where he owned his farm, to
become an 18th century New York version of a medieval surf. The land
patent holders RENTED farms they did not sell them. Around the turn of
the century, after the Rev War, the feudal nature of the New York land
holding system began to start to break down. However, since the land
patent holders did not have fee simple title to their respective land
grants, all they could convey is the interest that they owned in the
land - i.e. something less than a fee simple interest. The law in New
York state is not changed until 1841, thereby permitting "modern" fee
simple ownership.

What I am looking for in late 18th century and early 19th century deeds
are three things:

1. a freehold lease interest in the land being bought and sold;
2. the proprietor's interest being sold subject to a freehold lease; or,
3. the proprietor's interest being sold to the current lease holder,
which extinguished the lease.

So only those tenant farmers to stay in the Saratoga Tax District long
after the Rev War are likely to show up in my research, unless the rent
records of the proprietor, who rented to them, have survived.

I did not find Iram Murray's name in any of my Albany County lists or in
Mac Naughton's book on the Argyle Patent. Moreau was part of
the Kaydarosseras Patent. I have not done any serious title work in the
Kaydarosseras Patent yet. I am still struggling with the Saratoga
Patent and its seven proprietors. However, there is no one named Iram
Murray listed in the Heritage Hunters' Index to the Saratoga County
Grantee Index. There are other men with the surname of Murray listed
around the turn of the 19th century.

According to Colham's book, "American Loyalist Claims", Iram Murray did
not file a claim for losses with the British Government. (Many
Loyalists did not file claims for losses. For a thorough discussion of
American Loyalists, I recommend Wallace Brown's books, "Friends of the
King" and the "Good Americans", which you should be able to get through
interlibrary loan or at a used book store.)

Under list rules, I do not believe that I am permitted to address your
question about the possibility of my publishing my research. For the
answer to that question, please contact me off list.


Nancy robinson wrote:
> leslie....
> In your "Plotting of Washington & Saratoga Counties" Will you publish your
> finding. I think I have a loyalist there at the time but cannot find any
> records on his owning land. His name is Iram Murray of Moreau and Argyle. I
> do so enjoy reading all your answers to listers and have learned so much
> from them....Thanks for all your knowledge.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Leslie B. Potter" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 3:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [NYSARATO] Records Ft. Miller, Ft. Edward area-pre-Rev
>> Hi Sharilyn,
>> Yes, Bob Freeman did publish those three theories in his book along with
>> detailed supporting data supporting each theory. I was merely
>> demonstrating my bias in favor of theory #1, which is that John Freeman
>> and his sister Dorcas Freeman Burley Rose were the children of 1712-John
>> Freeman of Preston Connecticut. Theory # 1 just seems much more logical
>> and likely to me in light of all of my research. There were a fair
>> number of men, who had served at Ft. Edward during the French and Indian
>> War, who later returned to settle in the Saratoga Patent. However, Bob
>> is still hoping that I will uncover the smoking gun that settles the
>> issue once and for all.
>> However, at this point I am concentrating on plotting late 18th century
>> Saratoga and Washington County deeds in an attempt to ascertain the
>> locations of the farms occupied by the 567 taxpayers and 125 Loyalists,
>> who filed claims, who were living in the Saratoga Tax District when
>> General Burgoyne came calling.
>> As for Marcus Snyder not being on the the Saratoga District Tax Lists,
>> if he were still in his "honeymoon" period with his land lord or if his
>> real estate were deemed to be of insufficient value, he would not have
>> been paying taxes on it. One of the ploys used by the wealthy
>> proprietors of the large land patents to induce tenants to settle in the
>> Province of New York following the French and Indian War was to offer
>> them 5 to 7 years rent and tax free occupancy of the land. If Marcus
>> only had four acres of his 100 acre lease hold cleared as he stated in
>> his claim for losses filed with the British government, I would be
>> inclined to suspect that he was probably a "new tenant", who fell into
>> one of the two exceptions which exempted a tenant from paying real
>> estate taxes on the land that he was occupying.
>> Leslie
>> Leslie
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