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From: Donna <>
Subject: [OHCRAWFO] [Fwd: [PAWESTMO-L] German burial policies]
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 22:16:08 -0700

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Hi Listers:

I was forwarded this from the Westmoreland List. This is quite
lenghthly but is very informative. Just thought some of you may be
interested as I was.

Sincerely... Donna Heller Zinn of Cumberland Co., PA.

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Subject: [PAWESTMO-L] German burial policies
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First an apology. I type very fast and typed my name wrong, and then used
auto spell check and since I also don't see as well as I used to I
accidentally let my letter go out under the name of Julienne. Wrong it is
Jerilyn Sorry

I have been very fortunate these past 19-15 years to travel a lot of the
world and as I am very interested in the people and their customs I see more
than just scenery. I do do the scenery bits, but love the old churches,
buildings, museums. I am astounded at how many poor serfs must have died
building the tall churches of Europe.

This turned out to be very long so if you want - just delete me and go on.

Several questions came my way about the cemetery policies in Europe.

1. I do not know if they dig the bones up or if they are gone at the end of
the time but will find out. Probably depends on the amount of time you
rented your space.
2. I am assuming the rental time starts at the time you purchase the lot.
Hadn't really given it any thought before, but that would make sense. I am
sure that if the family keeps renting the space they just go on top of each
other.
3. One answer said that in England they consider embalming barbaric so they
probably don't do it. Particularly today as very environment conscious and
that would be putting chemicals in the soil.
4. Other answers brought out the way of the Indians who built pyres and
burned their ancestors. Some Indian Tribes put them on the platform in the
air and left them. When an Eskimo outlived their usefulness to the
community, they just went into the wilderness to die.
5 One answer talked about being in Dublin where they were buried in the dry
catacomb and have turned all leatherly. These were the priests and Nuns. I
have seen the following in a church in Germany and one in Switzerland for the
burial of Saints. They are buried in glass coffins which are kept at the
front of the church. They are in their good clothes and are leaned as if on
their side and using one arm to hold their head up. This is really odd. The
clothes are rotting, but the bones are still OK. I had seen this years ago,
but couldn't remember where and we found it again. These were both in
Benedictine Monasteries, but I am sure that is not exclusive to them.

Will continue with some of our experiences. You have to understand that I
have no fear of cemeteries nor have I ever had. In the small towns you visit
them often and never forget them on Memorial Day. Our family probably put
flowers on 3/4 of the graves every year. My mother, age 82, is still doing
it. If we knew the families were too far away or no descendants left to
remember the older ones, my mother takes care of it. Plants peonies, iris,
etc. Out in western Kansas we don't have as much rain as the East so can't
do a lot, but what she can.

When I first started this obsession (one of love but an obsession anyway), I
used to visit many cemeteries and when the children were young, they were all
given the names I needed and on vacations which I carefully scheduled to
travel through areas that I needed information from, the four would fan out
and yell when they found a name I needed. It is a joke in the family now.

I have always had a fascination with the topic as well as medieval history
and thus types of torture used by our ancestors. A large paper in high
school convinced me that man was not always nice to another man. I am such a
softy I can't kill a bug and that is probably why my fascination. Anyway,
that might be why I do visit some of the places I do. Now for the travels.

In Germany there is not a funeral in a church. They have chapels, I guess
you call them that, in each cemetery and it is from there the service is
held. No following a hearse, etc. I don't know where that came from. They
are buried very soon and as I said in a white shroud.

Czechoslovakia was about the same except that I found so many tombstones that
had pictures of the deceased on them. I have also seen this at the Czech
cemeteries in this country. I find this really great. A lot of the
cemeteries in Czechoslovakia had a big stone and were usually covered totally
with a large granite slab. Then there were sitting on the slab several small
urn types for those who were cremated - again with pictures. We were hunting
my husbands families roots at the time and was amazing to find the town they
came from that had 9 houses in the 1870's still has 9 houses. As I
understand it, they are quite dull on the outside but very nice on the inside
- this was to prevent things being taken away during the Communist Regime.
When we found his family tombstone it was labeled the family of KOSKAN. Now
there were also KOSTKAN's in the same cemetery. Seems some were Catholic and
some were Protestant -not sure which, but think KOSKAN were the Protestants.
Still working on that.

In Rome we took a tour of the Catacombs. I saw not a single bone so asked
how can this be the Catacombs with no bones. This was my answer. Many ha
been robbed through the years and what was left was not on the tour any more
as they had too many people feint. Consequently I got another tour to see
how it was done.

Paris- When Napoleon rebuilt the city he had to dig up many many cemeteries.
He left a beautiful city. At least he didn't build over them. All the bones
from each cemetery was kept together and put in the Catacombs under the city
and each labeled as to what cemetery they came from and years of use and
anything else they might know. How they arranged the bones you can read in
the Czech section of this dissertation - guess I had better call it that.

The last time I was in Paris I decided to tour the Catacombs. Husband was in
meetings all day so I went to the entrance, stood in line (yes it is a big
tourist attraction) and paid my money and went down. I am expecting a short
little trip. Three hours later I came up far away. They wind all over under
the city and I have no idea where I was. Many, many of the tunnels are
closed off. Thank God, you would never get back. During World War II, the
French Resistance used the Catacombs for their headquarters with no problems.
The Germans and others were afraid to go down there in the dark with all the
bones.(So they say)

In Prague we visited a very very old Jewish cemetery. Here they also were
burying one on top of the other. What was interesting is that when they dig
for the next person they remove the headstone, bury the new person, put the
old headstone back on and add a new headstone. Some of the graves had 7 or 8
headstones. As you know Judaism does not allow cremation-at least that is
what I understand.

Now the next description does get macabre so if you have a weak stomach -
quit reading.

I said I would get back to the bone churches. Originally, the bones were all
dug up and piled in the crypts of the churches to make way for new graves. A
lot of these were the result of the Plague many many years ago. At the one I
visited, someone had taken the time to make all sorts of church objects out
of the bones. To say it was weird is putting it mildly. One Monstrance
(forgot how to spell it) was made using every bone in the human body. The
chandelier was made from bones. You would have to have seen it to believe
it. No pictures, but I bought postcards. What bones were left were piled
very nearly in arches along the sides. Large leg bones all stacked neatly
like logs with the skulls sitting on top and all the rest of the extra bones
piled behind.. As I said before I know of two Czechoslovakia and one in
Italy but there may be more.

One more part of the world and I will quit. As you know the Orient has a bad
population problem and woman are not allowed to choose how many children they
can have in many of the countries. I didn't get into the burial in China
other than the Emperors, but in Japan we visited the oddest garden - very
sad. There was a shrine covered with probably 5 to 6 hundred small dolls (10
to 15 inches tall). Each doll represented a dead baby, either from abortion
or still birth. The numbers were overwhelming and then we were told that
they only stay one month and are replaced. This was only for this area of
Japan. How sad, but their way of remembering their lost ones.

Sorry to end on such a sad note. Travel is fun and like one of the
responders to my first missive, it is through the customs of the people and
meeting those of other countries that we can perhaps make this a more
peaceful country. I have found that wherever I go, people have the same
wants for their families. Their customs are different and they go at it a
different way, but each wants what is best for their children and none want
war or killing. This drive for power causes such disorder in life. We
hosted exchange students for 15 years and what a blessing. How can you go to
war when you have friends in the country you are supposed to be mad at?

OK back to chasing the elusive ancestor. Hope you enjoyed the discourse and
I am ready to hit the court houses again.

Jerilyn Koskan
Orland Park, Illinois


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• [OHCRAWFO] [Fwd: [PAWESTMO-L] German burial policies] by Donna <>