OHMIAMI-L Archives

From: "karen and chuck" <>
Subject: Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 39
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:41:40 -0500
References: <mailman.117822.1202834902.4585.ohmiami@rootsweb.com>
In-Reply-To: <mailman.117822.1202834902.4585.ohmiami@rootsweb.com>

I look at Ancestry.Com two ways:1. Operational and 2.Data
The operational side of Ancestry needs some work. Sometimes it is so
difficult to review information. It is constantly being unavailable which
is increasing in frequency. The organization of the data they have housed
has become complex. I am not sure what is out there any more. The way
updates are done for errors is old and antiquated. It does not work
properly. When you change something it should update it to make the actual
correction. Not just an informational marker. The functionality of it does
not work properly. You would think they could hire programmers to make this
work more efficiently. When you call to speak to a technician you never get
a call back nor do I ever receive an answer from an email reporting an
issue.

Data on the other hand is another issue. When an existing tree is updated.
It appears that the same information makes another tree based on update
date. It should update the record you update. Not add another line. This
takes up a lot of server space. Needless to say how many times have you had
to look at the same persons information 3 or 4 times since it is a separate
tree. There should be permanent standardized fields built in for data.

For the most part I think it works great. It is time consuming as with any
research. I use it a lot and I think it is very reasonably priced for the
information on it. I can work from my home, print, copy and paste. I have
a cost savings of not having to purchase materials from other resources.
Most historical societies want you to pay to see their information online.
So you pay either way you go.


-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:48 AM
To:
Subject: OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 39



Today's Topics:

1. Re: Museum Question (Mary Ann Booher)
2. Re: Museum Question (Mary Ann Booher)
3. genealogyservices (jeanne hime)
4. Re: Museum Question ()
5. Re: genealogyservices (CRUSE)
6. Re: Museum Question ()
7. Re: genealogyservices (barbara)
8. Re: genealogyservices (CRUSE)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:29:50 -0500
From: "Mary Ann Booher" <>
Subject: Re: [OHMIAMI] Museum Question
To: <>
Message-ID: <002501c86d8c$1bb820c0$>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"

I use Ancestry, because I am in position to. I understand the frustration of
those that find it costly. BUT...when we were living in Florida, I had no
access to a research library. At least not one that held information I
needed (there was a LDS library about 45 minutes away with limited hours and
facilities) Ancestry filled the void. No travel expenses, no waiting for
someone to finish using the microfilm reader or fiche. No copy cost.

While Ancestry kept me researching....its is only as good as the person
adding the entry, much like the IGI. What is most convenient is the
availability of the census information and the ease of it's use. To sit in
my home and be able to display the
page of the census needed, without a line by line search is, in my opinion,
a minor
miracle. To think of the hours spent when that was the only way to find
someone!
Now, with more and more available: Newspapers, Pictures, books, I can't
imagine what else will soon be found there.

Yes, the charge. Yes, it is relatively expensive...yes, they use your
research.
The other point I would like to make is, that having information on Ancestry
is that YOU WON'T LOSE IT, in a computer crash, a housefire, or any other
calamity.

Mary Ann


----- Original Message -----
From: "CRUSE" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: [OHMIAMI] Museum Question


> Well, I have to agree with Tim on this. I am 66, raising a 15 yr. old
grandson myself on extremely minimal income and am really frustrated with
all these "pay us and we'll tell ya" sites. Ancestry.com is the worst, and
unfortunately many areas of genealogy are buying into that site so that it
seems if you want some info from one area, you must still pay a.com to get
it. Suz
>
> Sharon Specht <> wrote: Tim,
> I am just looking at it from the point of view of an amateur genealogist,
who thinks it a real bargain as compared to the price of travel expenses,
not to mention time involved in traveling to libraries, family history
libraries, etc.etc.
>
> Does anyone else here have an opinion on this, just out of curiosity?
> Sharon
>
> Buckshot wrote:
> Sharon,
>
> I won't contribute to any site that requires a subscription.
>
> They are making money off of my or our research, and I just won't
> participate in it.
>
> Tim Tucker
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sharon Specht"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 11:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [OHMIAMI] Museum Question
>
>
> > How about a Public Family Tree on ancestry.com with the photos, etc.
> > available online to anyone with a subscription?
> > I am very fond of this site and how easy it is to find relevant
> > information.
> > Sharon
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > If you are referring to data, you might consider donating your material
to
> > OGS in Mansfield. Once their new building is finished they will much
more
> > room
> > for family histories. I have made notations on each of my family
notebooks
> > and file folders to donate my material and have made a notation with my
> > Will.
> >
> > Also - all genealogy publications I have purchased for researching will
be
> > donated to my local library's genealogy dept. with the stipulation if
they
> > already have to try to find another nearby library - such as a more
major
> > city, to
> > accept the duplicates.
> >
> > On my maternal side I have many photographs from the 1800s as well as
> > family
> > bibles from mid-1800s and was concerned about them. Fortunately, I have
a
> > cousin who has a son very interested in family history and have
stipulated
> > for
> > those items to be given to them. In fact, due to my age, I have already
> > begun
> > giving them some of the original photographs and keeping the scanned
> > copies.
> >
> > On my paternal side, there is no one to pass photographs on so they will
> > be
> > included with the family notebooks to be given to OGS.
> >
> > Personally, I prefer these options vs the LDS Church as more people will
> > be
> > able to access them at all times. I have had one problem with the LDS
> > Church
> > in Wyoming that has documents and photographs that I am unable to
access.
> > I
> > also prefer to keep everything as local as possible.
> >
> > OHS [Ohio Historical Society] in Columbus has been cut back so
drastically
> > due to budgets, they do not seem to be able to maintain material well
any
> > more
> > but that is also another option. At least you would know the information
> > would
> > be preserved.
> >
> > I hope this gives you some ideas.
> > Shirley
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 2/11/2008 3:19:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > writes:
> >
> > Also, where do you put this information for safe keeping? I have no
> > children, two nephews and a niece, none with the Tucker name, and I am
not
> > sure how interested they will be in preserving it.
> >
> > I have heard that you can turn it in to the LDS Church, but I have never
> > heard how to do this and I have NOT been able to get back information
that
> > I
> > know was compiled on the Mitchell side of the family mentioned above by
a
> > cousin of mine who did that work. I can't seem to find anyone who will
> > tell
> > me how to get a copy of that information back to our branch of the
family,
> > so I am hesitant to deposit any information there.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > **************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy
> > Awards. Go to AOL Music.
> > (http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)
> > tdn-net.com/genealogy
> > -------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
> > tdn-net.com/genealogy
> > -------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
> tdn-net.com/genealogy
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
now.
> tdn-net.com/genealogy
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
in the subject and the body of the message
>
> tdn-net.com/genealogy
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
in the subject and the body of the message



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:34:59 -0500
From: "Mary Ann Booher" <>
Subject: Re: [OHMIAMI] Museum Question
To: <>
Message-ID: <003801c86d8c$d3dec460$>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"

I'll second that, Suz!

Troy Local History Library is a remarkable place!

Mary Ann
----- Original Message -----
From: "CRUSE" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: [OHMIAMI] Museum Question


> I haven't been up to the Library for tooo long, but I can certainly tell
people that it is an excellent resource! Not only is there a wonderful bunch
of information, but a wonderful bunch of friendly, helpful people. I don't
know if there are researchers for folks from out of state or town, but if
you are where you have access to Troy (N. of Dayton at I-75) it would be a
grand place to look into. Since I just live in Tipp City, I really ought to
go much more often! Suz
>
> barbara <> wrote: I, as assistant archivist at the
Local History Library in Troy, Miami
> County, Ohio, would like to offer our location at 100 W. Main St., as a
site
> that would be interested in collections of family histories.
>
> People come from all over the US to visit with our library. I know it is
> because they have used our website ( www.tdn-net.com/genealogy ) to find
> information that brings them here. We have been contacted and visited by
> people around the world for help in searching their family tree.
>
> We are a branch location of the Troy-Miami County Public Library and work
in
> cooperation with the Troy Historical Society to house a collection of
family
> and county information. If you would like more details please contact me.
>
> Thanks
> Barbara Besecker
> Asst. Archivist, Local History Library
> Webmaster www.tdn-net.com/genealogy
> Administrator OHMIAMI, WACKLER, BESECKER, LACHAT, ELSMAN, DEMOSS
>
>
> tdn-net.com/genealogy
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
in the subject and the body of the message
>
> tdn-net.com/genealogy
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
in the subject and the body of the message



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 07:56:39 -0800 (PST)
From: jeanne hime <>
Subject: [OHMIAMI] genealogyservices
To:
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

My local library has a subscription to ancestry.com library edition. I can
go there anytime and do research for free. It is an excellent program with
lots of census information. I never have to wait to use a terminal. If your
local library does not subscribe to genealogy services, I suggest you
inquire about the possibility that they do so. Also some museums have public
access to these services. I think Garst Museum in Darke County does and The
Preble County Library's genealogy center does. This has been a great help to
me and I have met some very pleasent and helpful people there. Jeanne Hime

---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
now.

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:04:46 EST
From:
Subject: Re: [OHMIAMI] Museum Question
To:
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

In a message dated 2/12/08 4:45:56 AM Pacific Standard Time,
writes:


> I am just looking at it from the point of view of an amateur
genealogist,
> who thinks it a real bargain as compared to the price of travel expenses,
> not to mention time involved in traveling to libraries, family history
> libraries, etc.etc.
>

I agree. I also hooked up with a cousin in Wales (our grandmothers were
sisters) because she put her tree information at ancestry.

Margie


**************
The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the
Grammy Awards. Go to AOL Music.

(http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 08:11:20 -0800 (PST)
From: CRUSE <>
Subject: Re: [OHMIAMI] genealogyservices
To:
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Well, THANKS for the info, Jeanne! What a great help. I just live around the
corner from our Tipp City Library, and I will see if we have that service.
I've never been over to the Garst Museum, but always wanted to. Your lovely
wake up call will surely push me over there! Thanks again
Suz (Susan Cruse)

jeanne hime <> wrote:
My local library has a subscription to ancestry.com library edition. I can
go there anytime and do research for free. It is an excellent program with
lots of census information. I never have to wait to use a terminal. If your
local library does not subscribe to genealogy services, I suggest you
inquire about the possibility that they do so. Also some museums have public
access to these services. I think Garst Museum in Darke County does and The
Preble County Library's genealogy center does. This has been a great help to
me and I have met some very pleasent and helpful people there. Jeanne Hime

---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
now.
tdn-net.com/genealogy
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
in the subject and the body of the message



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:28:11 EST
From:
Subject: Re: [OHMIAMI] Museum Question
To:
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"



In a message dated 2/12/2008 9:30:59 A.M. Central Standard Time,
writes:

yes, they use your
research.Speaking of Ancestry.com

I'm curious as to how they use your research? Would someone explain,
please?
Susan










**************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy
Awards. Go to AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:37:54 -0500
From: "barbara" <>
Subject: Re: [OHMIAMI] genealogyservices
To: <>
Message-ID: <007501c86d95$9dbc57e0$d93507a0$@rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii"

The Troy-Miami County Public Library, Troy Local History Library and
Pleasant Hill Library all have free Ancestry.com for its patrons.

Thanks
Barbara Besecker
Asst. Archivist, Local History Library
Webmaster tdn-net.com/genealogy
Administrator OHMIAMI, WACKLER, BESECKER, LACHAT, ELSMAN, DEMOSS


-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:] On
Behalf Of jeanne hime
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 10:57 AM
To:
Subject: [OHMIAMI] genealogyservices

My local library has a subscription to ancestry.com library edition. I can
go there anytime and do research for free. It is an excellent program with
lots of census information. I never have to wait to use a terminal. If your
local library does not subscribe to genealogy services, I suggest you
inquire about the possibility that they do so. Also some museums have public
access to these services. I think Garst Museum in Darke County does and The
Preble County Library's genealogy center does. This has been a great help to
me and I have met some very pleasent and helpful people there. Jeanne Hime




------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 08:47:32 -0800 (PST)
From: CRUSE <>
Subject: Re: [OHMIAMI] genealogyservices
To:
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Oh my! THANKS so much. Just the push I needed to get back up to the TLHL!

barbara <> wrote: The Troy-Miami County Public Library,
Troy Local History Library and
Pleasant Hill Library all have free Ancestry.com for its patrons.

Thanks
Barbara Besecker
Asst. Archivist, Local History Library
Webmaster tdn-net.com/genealogy
Administrator OHMIAMI, WACKLER, BESECKER, LACHAT, ELSMAN, DEMOSS


-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:] On
Behalf Of jeanne hime
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 10:57 AM
To:
Subject: [OHMIAMI] genealogyservices

My local library has a subscription to ancestry.com library edition. I can
go there anytime and do research for free. It is an excellent program with
lots of census information. I never have to wait to use a terminal. If your
local library does not subscribe to genealogy services, I suggest you
inquire about the possibility that they do so. Also some museums have public
access to these services. I think Garst Museum in Darke County does and The
Preble County Library's genealogy center does. This has been a great help to
me and I have met some very pleasent and helpful people there. Jeanne Hime


tdn-net.com/genealogy
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
in the subject and the body of the message



------------------------------

To contact the OHMIAMI list administrator, send an email to
.

To post a message to the OHMIAMI mailing list, send an email to
.

__________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to

with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body
of the
email with no additional text.


End of OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 39
**************************************

This thread:

• Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 14 by
  • [OHMIAMI] Labeling Photos by Ann Trimmer <>
  • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 14 by "Donna \(History Buff\) M. St. Felix" <>
    • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 14 by CRUSE <>
  • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 14 by
    • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 14 by "Pamela WELLS nee ROBERSON" <>
    • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 14 by "Donna \(History Buff\) M. St. Felix" <>
  • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 14 by
    • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 14 by "Pamela WELLS nee ROBERSON" <>
  • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 2 by "Donna \(History Buff\) M. St. Felix" <>
  • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 16 by "jean burkart" <>
    • [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by "Patricia Owens" <>
      • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by "Kathy McIntosh" <>
        • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by "Debbie Carder" <>
      • [OHMIAMI] roll call by
        • Re: [OHMIAMI] roll call by "RAY FRIESS" <>
        • Re: [OHMIAMI] roll call by "jaynema" <>
          • Re: [OHMIAMI] roll call by
      • [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by Nancy Heinl <>
      • [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by "Robert Haines" <>
      • [OHMIAMI] Roll call by
      • [OHMIAMI] Roll call by Tony Honeyman <>
      • [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by
      • [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by CRUSE <>
        • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call - Wagner by Sharon Specht <>
          • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call - Wagner by CRUSE <>
      • [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by "David J. Bachman" <>
      • [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by "Dr. Carol R. Myers" <>
        • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call - Miller? by Sharon Specht <>
      • [OHMIAMI] Roll Call: FELIX by "Donna \(History Buff\) M. St. Felix" <>
        • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call: BURTON by Ken Sajdak <>
          • [OHMIAMI] Roll Call: Tucker by "Buckshot" <>
            • [OHMIAMI] Roll Call: FERGUS and related families by "Cynthia Russell" <>
            • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call: Tucker by "Mary Lou" <>
              • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call: Tucker by "Buckshot" <>
                • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call: Tucker by "Mary Lou" <>
                  • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call: Tucker Quakers leave Mass. by "Mary Ann Booher" <>
                    • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call: Tucker Quakers leave Mass. by "Buckshot" <>
                  • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call: Tucker by "Buckshot" <>
                    • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call: Tucker by "Mary Lou" <>
                      • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call: Tucker by "Buckshot" <>
            • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call: Tucker by
              • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call: Tucker by "Buckshot" <>
            • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call: Tucker by
              • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call: Tucker by "Buckshot" <>
          • [OHMIAMI] Roll call Amasa Steward, Regina Medaris by "Doris Benner" <>
            • [OHMIAMI] Roll call by
              • [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by "Pat" <>
                • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by Patrick McGarry <>
              • [OHMIAMI] roll call by "Robert" <>
              • [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by
                • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call Hardisty's by "jaynema" <>
                  • [OHMIAMI] Keplinger, Downing, Maxton, Beard by "Audrey Hancock" <>
                  • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call Hardisty's by CRUSE <>
                  • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call Hardisty's by
              • [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by Sharon Specht <>
                • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by CRUSE <>
                  • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by Sharon Specht <>
                    • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by CRUSE <>
              • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by
              • [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by "Daryla Young" <>
              • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by
                • Re: [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by "Michael Reck" <>
                  • Re: [OHMIAMI] Goater-Reck by pam holeton <>
              • [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by Chuck Carey <>
              • [OHMIAMI] Roll call by "Ann Hawkes" <>
              • [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by "Alan Knutson" <>
              • [OHMIAMI] Roll Call by Darraugh <>
                • Re: [OHMIAMI] Lora Pennington Stottlemyer by "Mary Ann Booher" <>
  • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 14 by
  • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 16 by
    • [OHMIAMI] FACKLER/RANCK by <>
    • [OHMIAMI] Fackler/Fockler Families by "Michael Reck" <>
  • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 29 by "Pat" <>
  • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 29 by

  • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 39 by "karen and chuck" <>

  • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 39 by
  • [OHMIAMI] Fw: OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 39 by "Linda H. Gutierrez" <>
  • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 46 by "Mary & Herman Kiser" <>
    • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 46 by "Debbie Carder" <>
  • [OHMIAMI] Fw: OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 46 by "Linda H. Gutierrez" <>
    • Re: [OHMIAMI] Fw: OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 46 by "Debbie Carder" <>
      • Re: [OHMIAMI] Fw: OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 46 by "Linda H. Gutierrez" <>
  • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 48 by "Mary & Herman Kiser" <>
    • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 48 by "Linda H. Gutierrez" <>
    • Re: [OHMIAMI] [Mary by Sharon Specht <>
  • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 59 by Angie Sturms <>
  • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 63 by
  • Re: [OHMIAMI] OHMIAMI Digest, Vol 3, Issue 65 by "Mary & Herman Kiser" <>
    • [OHMIAMI] Speece by pam holeton <>