PA-OLD-CHESTER-L Archives

Archiver > PA-OLD-CHESTER > 2004-02 > 1076088166


From: "Sandra Ferguson" <>
Subject: [PaOldC] Cain Creek, etc
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 12:22:57 -0500
References: <412004256152429997@earthlink.net> <001301c3ecd1$6e075480$98a0fea9@6001dgs2l505>


Cane Creek had a large group of Quakers, and a large meeting....I doubt
anyone would 'hide' there from his 'meeting' in PA. Besides, people in
earlier times were, I think, more honorbound that folks are today - simply
'not telling' of one's service didn't absolve them of what they KNEW to be
considered wrong by the tenents of their faith.. As you probably know, one
can't simply 'join' a new meeting - one must submit a certificate from one's
meeting, that says, in essence, you are a member in good standing.
This statement from Candy really struck me...."Their testimony, they
believed, was destined to spread from here to all the world." Boy,
isn't it a shame it didn't! What a different world it would be!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kim Wilson" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: [PaOldC] Isaac HARVEY - Rev. service...


> Candy,
> Thanks so much for this information. It has me thinking. I have not read
> the Quaker meeting minutes in a while but I do not remember Isaac having
> been disciplined--but, here is another light on the subject--he is said to
> have moved to Cane Creek MM in NC in 1773 with his son Nathan. He
> apparently returned to "serve" with this Capt. Luckey in 1781. Was he
> hiding from his fellowship in NC? Next time I go to the library I'll take
a
> fresh look at those minutes.
>
> I live one hour from the library in Ft.Wayne, IN so I will also be looking
> for the books everyone has been referencing when I go.
>
> Kim in Indiana
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Candace Roth <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 10:24 AM
> Subject: [PaOldC] Isaac HARVEY - Rev. service...
>
>
> >
> > Kim:
> >
> > The entry below from my DAR Patriot Index shows the notation: 'CS' It
is
> > a common misunderstanding that folks eligible for DAR membership needed
to
> > descend from a soldier, or one who actually took up arms and fought.
This
> > is not correct. The 'CS' stands for Civil Service and denotes that
Isaac
> > furthered the efforts of the new government by helping in a civil
> capacity.
> > He could have held a civil office in the area, or just a member of a
> > committee, or, [my personal favorite is a 'fence watcher'] which is
> > designated among the recognized efforts, or, he could have just paid
taxes
> > to the new government or carried water to troops passing over his lands.
> A
> > common practice was for a Quaker to pay another person to serve in the
> army
> > in his stead - the church considered this to be liable as well, as well
as
> > paying a fine for refusing to serve.
> >
> > I have several 'fightin' Quakers in my lineages as the expression has
come
> > to be known. Indeed, the Quakers lot was a tough one - combine the love
> of
> > a mother country, the love of the country which had granted them freedom
> > from religious persecution and the love a religion which forbade the
> taking
> > up of arms or engaging in participation in a violent endeavor. Even the
> > civil evolvement would have been viewed negatively from the church's
> > standpoint. Some came before their meetings and acknowledged their
> > misconduct in engaging in the venture and were returned to the active
> > membership, some made the choice to forgo membership in their church to
> > support their new country. A tough call...
> >
> > "Loyalists, Pacifists and Prisoners" by Rollin C. Steinmetz provides
some
> > interesting comments:
> > "...The Quakers may be described as nonviolent resisters rather than as
> > nonresisters in the Mennonite style. The Society of Friends had at
first
> > believed in the admissibility of fighting for a righteous cause, a
belief
> > only gradually abandoned. Once arrived in Pennsylvania, non-violence
> > solidified among the Quakers, who saw Penn's land as the New Jerusalem
of
> > the Holy Experiment. Their testimony, they believed, was destined to
> > spread from here to all the world...
> >
> > ...Quaker historians say that, in Pennsylvania, 222 members of the
Society
> > of Friends were 'dealt with' during the war for taking the test oath,
and
> > 321 for either 'paying fines themselves or conniving at others paying in
> > their behalf.' Probably half of these cases ended in disownment. Hiring
a
> > substitute was considered by the Quakers even worse than paying the
fine;
> > it was condemned also by the German sectarians...
> >
> > ...Friends "dealt with [in Quaker meetings] for acting in the quality of
a
> > soldier" numbered 542 in Pennsylvania. Very few enlisted in the British
> > forces, and these did so mostly in the first two years of the war. Some
> > who enlisted were merely nominal Quakers...
> >
> > General Thomas Mifflin, elected governor of the state three times, and
> > buried along the wall of Trinity Church in Lancaster, was born a Quaker
> but
> > departed the brotherhood early in life. Christopher Marshall,
> Philadelphia
> > patriot and merchant whose diary during his exile in Lancaster tells us
so
> > much about life here during the Revolution, had been disowned by the
> > Quakers back in 1751 for what his meeting considered un-Quakerly
business
> > practices. Timothy Matlack, secretary of the Supreme Executive
> > Council,...was tossed out of the church in 1765 for similar reasons."
> >
> > The above referenced little pamphlet has a plethora of information about
> > this as it continues - it was part of the series of publications
available
> > in Lancaster Co., PA for the bicentennial celebration - not certain, the
> > Historical Society at Lancaster probably has the series...they are
great.
> >
> > So, your Isaac need not have taken up arms in his 60's and fought the
> enemy
> > - there were many examples of how he might have been recognized for his
> > help to the effort. One lady is recognized as a patriot for providing
> > blankets to soldiers during the winter.
> >
> > ...Candy :)
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: Kim Wilson <>
> > > To: <>; <>
> > > Date: 2/5/2004 9:00:02 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [PaOldC] Isaac Harvey listed in records not a war vet..
> > >
> > > That's my man! Thanks. In retrospect I should have included dates
and
> > > spouse to simplify things.
> > > Kim
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Candace Roth <>
> > > To: <>
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 6:54 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [PaOldC] Isaac Harvey listed in records not a war vet..
> > >
> > >
> > > Pardon me for jumping in, but I just looked in my DAR Patriot Index
and
> > > found one entry that may be of interest...just passing it along:
> > >
> > > HARVEY, Isaac, Sr.
> > > b 9-21-1718 PA d 11-3-1802 NC m Martha Newlin CS NC
> > >
> > > Candy
> > >
> > >
> > > > [Original Message]
> > > > From: Nelda Percival <>
> > > > To: <>
> > > > Date: 2/5/2004 5:57:50 PM
> > > > Subject: [PaOldC] Isaac Harvey listed in records not a war vet..
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > > ancestry.com has 152 volumes of the DAR books more is being
> transcribed.
> > > In
> > > > putting Isaac Harvey in the key word there were 98 hits. out of
those
> no
> > > > Isaac Harvey old enough to be in Rev War.. But there were some hits
in
> > > that
> > > > the wifes had an ancestor who did serve. I have no idea where they
are
> > > from
> > > > or if these are yours..but here is what I found.
> > > > Nelda
> > > >
> > > > [p.154] Mrs. Alma Harvey Mack.
> > > > DAR ID Number: 81403
> > > > Born in Mill Creek, Pa.
> > > > Wife of Elmer E. Mack.
> > > > Descendant of Capt. Patrick Anderson.
> > > > Daughter of George Claflin Harvey (1831-1903) and Martha Jane Logan
(b
> > > > 1838), his wife, m. 1856.
> > > > Granddaughter of Isaac Harvey (1802-77) and Clarissa Claflin
> (1800-93),
> > > his
> > > > wife, m. 1829.
> > > > Gr-granddaughter of Isaac Harvey (1777-1854) and Catherine Leader
> > > > (1785-1824), his wife, m. 1800.
> > > > Gr-gr-granddaughter of Job Harvey (1739-1820) and Hannah Anderson
(b.
> > > 1752),
> > > > his wife, m. 1769.
> > > > Gr-gr-gr-granddaughter of Patrick Anderson and Hannah Martin (d.
> 1757),
> > > his
> > > > wife, m. 1748.
> > > > Patrick Anderson (1719-93) was captain of the 1st company of
> > Pennsylvania
> > > > musketry and commanded the battalion as senior captain after the
> colonel
> > > was
> > > > killed. He was a member of the Assembly, 1778-81. He was born and
died
> > in
> > > > Chester County.
> > > > Also No. 73779.
> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > Mrs. Carolyn Daley Clarke.
> > > > DAR ID Number: 104125
> > > > Born in Cambridge, Mass.
> > > > Wife of Edgar Clarke.
> > > > Descendant of Capt. Patrick Anderson, as follows:
> > > > 1. James Daley (1847-96) m. 1872 Helen Harvey (b. 1847).
> > > > 2. Nathan Harvey (1827-62) m. 1845 Lydia Erb (1830-58).
> > > > 3. Isaac Harvey (1777-1854) m. 1800 Catherine Leader (1785-1824).
> > > > 4. Job Harvey (1739-1820) m. 1769 Hannah Anderson (b. 1752).
> > > > 5. Patrick Anderson m. 1748 Hannah Martin (d. 1757).
> > > > [p.44] Patrick Anderson (1719-93) was captain of the 1st company of
> > > > Pennsylvania musketry and commanded the battalion as senior captain
> > after
> > > > the colonel was killed. He was a member of the Assembly, 1778-81. He
> was
> > > > born and died in Chester County, Pa.
> > > > Also No. 81403.
> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > Mrs. Fannie Harvey Bye.
> > > > DAR ID Number: 106607
> > > > Born in Brookville, Pa.
> > > > Wife of Joseph K. Bye.
> > > > Descendant of Capt. Patrick Anderson, as follows:
> > > > 1. George Claflin Harvey (1831-1903) m. 1856 Martha J. Logan (b.
> 1838).
> > > > 2. Isaac Harvey, Jr. (1802-77) m. 1829 Clarissa Claflin (1800-93).
> > > > 3. Isaac Harvey (1777-1854) m. 1800 Catherine Leader (1785-1824).
> > > > 4. Job Harvey (1739-1820) m. 1769 Hannah Anderson (b. 1752).
> > > > 5. Patrick Anderson m. 1st 1748 Hannah Martin (d. 1757).
> > > > Patrick Anderson (1719-93) was captain of the 1st company of
> > Pennsylvania
> > > > musketry and commanded the battalion as senior captain after the
> colonel
> > > was
> > > > killed. He was a member of the Assembly, 1778-81. He was born and
died
> > in
> > > > Chester County, Pa.
> > > > Also No. 81403.
> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > Mrs. Clara Harvey Deuble.
> > > > DAR ID Number: 107467
> > > > Born in Greenville, Pa.
> > > > Wife of Walter H. Deuble.
> > > > Descendant of Capt. Patrick Anderson, as follows:
> > > > [p.156] 1. George Claflin Harvey (1831-1903) m. 1856 Martha J. Logan
> (b.
> > > > 1838).
> > > > 2. Isaac Harvey, Jr. (1802-77), m. 1829 Clarissa Claffin (1800-93).
> > > > 3. Isaac Harvey (1777-1854) m. 1800 Catherine Leader (1785-1824).
> > > > 4. Job Harvey (1739-1820) m. 1769 Hannah Anderson (b. 1752).
> > > > 5. Patrick Anderson m. 1748 Hannah Martin (d. 1759).
> > > > Patrick Anderson (1719-93) was captain of the 1st company of
> > Pennsylvania
> > > > musketry and commanded the battalion as senior captain after the
> colonel
> > > was
> > > > killed. He was a member of the Assembly, 1778-81. He was born and
died
> > in
> > > > Chester County, Pa.
> > > > Also No. 81403.
> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > >
> > > > Hope it helps you
> > > > Nelda
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin, IBSSG
> > > > Beatty descendant line #005
> > > > Beaty collateral line #10
> > > > Graves descendant line #231
> > > > Digin up bones at:
> > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
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> >
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>
>
> ==== PA-OLD-CHESTER Mailing List ====
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> http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=PA-OLD-CHESTER
> (this site allows you to search for names, place, etc......
> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/pa-old-chester
> this site allows you to browse by month..
>
> NO VIRUS WARNINGS contact me personally those who post
will be unsubscribed
>
> please visit the Chester Co rootsweb site...it isfull of area photos,
helpful URLs and lots of county information
> http://www.pa-roots.com/~chester/
>
> if you have a problem contact ME and NOT the list
>
> ==============================
> Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration
> Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more.
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237
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