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Archiver > PA-QUAKERS > 2007-05 > 1179501605


From: James Stokes <>
Subject: Re: [PA-QUAKERS] How to find Monthly Meeting records
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 08:20:05 -0700 (PDT)


Hi Elizabeth,
In the case of the marriage I was discussing, it occurred very early, before 1700, and I imagine all the proceedures that would come into play later were not in place at that time. Quakers were a decentralized group at that time and I expect to some degree they winged it.
Jim



----- Original Message ----
From: Elizabeth Cunningham <>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 9:40:23 PM
Subject: Re: [PA-QUAKERS] How to find Monthly Meeting records


There is one more complication about Quaker weddings. The wedding at
home may very well have been a wedding "under the care of the Meeting"
with appropriate members on hand (often Overseers or members of Worship
and Ministry) who organize the Meeting for Worship in which a marriage
takes place. Usually they are in a Meeting House, but regular Meetings
were held in homes when there was no Meeting House (and they still are
in several places).

It is also possible to be married in a Meeting House but not "under the
care of the Meeting." There would be a regular Meeting for Worship, but
for some reason the Meeting does not feel that the marriage would be
right to go with, and does not give its consent. I was at a very
painful Meeting for Business some years ago (and weddings under the care
of the Meeting have to be approved by the whole membership) when the
Meeting felt that the marriage should not go forward -- principally
because the proposed groom seemed to take far too lightly his
responsibilities toward children of a prior marriage. The wedding took
place, but the marriage broke up when he refused to visit his wife in
the hospital when she got sick. That is not to say that all marriages
under the care of the Meeting succeed.

Elizabeth C

James Stokes wrote:

>Hi Seth,
> Yes, I didn't know they married at a meeting for worship, I know a few of mine married at home but this was early so maybe the meeting was too far away. As you may have guessed, I'm not a Quaker, and my experience with them has been with doing genealogy on my family. One point I forgot to make, they didn't jump over brooms. : )
> Jim
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Seth Hinshaw <>
>To:
>Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 8:46:38 AM
>Subject: Re: [PA-QUAKERS] How to find Monthly Meeting records
>
>
>This is a very good reply.
>
>I just wanted to suggest that the fourth paragraph might be re-worded as
>follows:
>
>... Quakers historically did not pay their ministers, and their ministers
>didn't marry people (some Quaker groups in the western two-thirds of the USA
>have changed this practice). Quakers married using "Common Law" English
>custom, which they have always maintained is the example found in Scripture.
>The ceremony is a meeting for worship, in which the couple stands and takes
>each other as husband and wife in the presence of the Lord. They promise
>"with divine assistance" to be loving partners as long they are both alive.
>Then an appointed person (often the monthly meeting clerk) reads the
>marriage certificate, which is then signed by those attending the event.
>Historically, the groom's family signed in the rightmost column, followed by
>the bride's family in the second column to the right, then by others in
>attendance.
>
>
>
>Seth Hinshaw
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:
>[mailto:] On Behalf Of James Stokes
>Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 2:29 PM
>To:
>Subject: Re: [PA-QUAKERS] How to find Monthly Meeting records
>
>Hi Folks,
> I would expect them to have meeting records at Swarthmore, I think
>anything they have at Haverford would be duplicated at Swarthmore.
>Originally, Swarthmore was the Hicksite College while Haverford was the
>Orthodox College, which refers to a split in the Quaker movement in the
>1820s but which has been resolved for over 100 years. Swarthmore also has
>the unpublished Hinshaw Collection, material that didn't make it into the
>Hinshaw books. I don't know if your meeting was included in the published
>material (Encyclopedia of American Quaker Genealogy, I believe Vol. 2 is
>Philadelphia Yearly Meeting) but you can check.
> I expect the First Family publication got its information from the
>History of Chester County, by Fuethy and Cope, published in 1883. You might
>check the Chester Co. Genweb site to see if that information is on-line, I
>think parts of it are, at least.
> Delaware was part of the colony of Pa. prior to 1700, at that time
>William Penn allowed Delaware to set up its own legislature. Before that
>they were known as the three lower counties of Pa.
> If your guy was disowned it only means he was no longer a Quaker and no
>longer attended meeting. The most common reason for being disowned was
>because he married a non-Quaker and was married by an outside minister,
>sometimes referred to as a hireling priest. (Quakers didn't pay their
>ministers and their ministers didn't marry people. Quakers married using
>Common Law English custom, the couple would stand up in front of a bunch of
>people and declare themselves married. Then the clerk was write up a
>marriage certificate that was signed by those attending the event, which
>usually included the parents and brothers and sisters of the bride and
>groom.)
> When my ancestor was disowned it only meant he was no longer a Quaker,
>it didn't seem to impact his relationship with his father and mother. My
>ancestor was disowned in 1801 but in his diary of 1841 he still talked about
>first day, second day, rather than Sunday, Monday, etc, so some of those
>customs persisted. Good luck.
>
>Jim
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Bill Dalton <>
>To:
>Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 1:47:36 AM
>Subject: [PA-QUAKERS] How to find Monthly Meeting records
>
>
>Hi
>
>I have found this citation and am now wondering how to find the records
>for the Meeting Houses mentioned, Hockessin, and then the meeting houses
>that would involved Deer Creek, Maryland.
>
>FIRST FAMILIES OF CHESTER COUNTY PENNSYLVANIA V. 2 pg. 8
>CALEB BAILY, SR. of Londongrove Twp, formerly of East Marlborough Twp.
>son of Daniel (2) and Olive Baily, Sr. of East Marlborough, was b. 144th
>of 2nd mo. 1738. He m. 28th of 9th mo. 1763 at Hockessin Meeting House,
>Ann Dixon, dauy. of Joseph and Mary Dixon of Kennett. Family removed to
>Londongrove Twp in 1794.
>Caleb and Ann had children born in East Marlborough: JOSEPH, b. 10th d
>of 9th mo, 1764, Danile b. 4th of 10th mo 1766, Caleb, Jr. b. 19th of
>5th mo, 1769, removed to Deer Creek, MD, in 1785; Benajah b. 145h of
>11th mo, 1772, d. 16th of 7th mo, 1775; Stephen, b. 18th of 9th mo,
>1775, put to apprentice in New Garden in 1793; Mary b. 18th of 19th mo,
>1778; Elias b. 23rd of 9th mo, 1782, Asher b. 10th of 3rd. mo 1785,
>apprenticed in Wilmington; Olive b. 16th of 6th mo 1790
>
>Also, if the son, Joseph, married out of the community, what would
>happen to him? As far as I know, my ancestor (his son) Hamilton Bailey
>was not Quaker.
>
>If he did remain in the community, what would be the meeting house in
>Belmont County, Ohio, near Bellaire?
>
>Thanks
>Bill Dalton
>
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